Can anyone tell me how to get the damn water pump out? The turbocharger oil supply line is right in the way. I've followed the DDM directions and have the pump off the front cover and also have all four bolts out of the water pump cover but it won"t separate into two pieces.
This is an excellent tip! Thank you Rob. Turned out there are 5 bolts on the water pump cover (as opposed to 4 stated in DDM guide) and I missed the one next to the drain plug.
However, now I can't seem to 'rotate' the water pump housing to an orientation that allows it to come out. Any additional advice?
Having done this twice the best advice I can offer is it WILL come out. And go back in. Make sure the two haves are separated then just fiddle with it and it will come out. It took me about five minutes of trying different orientations to get it out the first time
Weird. My wife and I have spent hours trying to fiddle with it now. Any chance the turbo oil supply line routing changed? In the DDM guide it looks like it ran down instead of wrapping around the waste gate like on my car. You can see the shielding on that hard line right behind / below the loose water pump housing.
I'm sort of getting to the point of accepting my fate of having to pull the turbo charger....
Update: Pretty sure GM must have changed turbo oil supply routing at some point. Would welcome some pictures of that area on 06/07 GXP.
That's kind of what I thought. That's why I suspect that the line previously routed (06/07?) under the turbocharger bearing cartridge and now routes on the compressor side of the wastegate. It prevents someone servicing the car from rotating the 2nd half (impeller half) of the pump into a position that allows it to be removed.
When I try and remove the water pump it hits one of 5 objects: The timing housing casting, the turbocharger compressor inlet, the exhaust manifold / shield, the boost control solenoid valve / hoses, or the turbocharger oil supply line. I have no idea what else to do than to start removing stuff.
I plan on calling Dave @ DDMWorks tomorrow for some extra support.
Just so you know, GM shop manual used to give 2 choices...removal of cat and pull it out the back, or removal of the turbo.... Now they give 1, removal of turbo. But, there are people like RTE here that haven't done either....
Interesting. Never quite thought about pulling it out the back although I suppose it's possible? The service instructions still appear to say that. I would think the turbo oil supply line still gets in the way, which is why I came to the conclusion of removing the turbo being the easiest. Although it seems damn near impossible to remove the turbocharger without loosening the mounts and jacking the engine up to get access to the exhaust turbine to exhaust manifold nuts.
Ironically, upon closer inspection of the service instructions, it actually shows there to be no turbocharger mounted to the exhaust manifold when pulling the water pump out. However, it doesn't instruct removal of the turbocharger which seems like an....oversight?
Just so you know, GM shop manual used to give 2 choices...removal of cat and pull it out the back, or removal of the turbo.... Now they give 1, removal of turbo. But, there are people like RTE here that haven't done either....
I found it easier to remove the turbo while leaving the catalytic converter in place but disconnected from the exhaust. Yes, it required loosening the motor mount and jacking up the engine. Reused all gaskets, no leaks. It’s not a fun job due to lack of space.
I made the decision to not remove the turbo. In my opinion, it introduces a whole new set of potential failure modes. I think the banjo bolt seals are one time use and should be replaced, but don't quote me. :grin:
I remember leaning on the right front fender and manipulating the back half of the water pump till it came out. It came out toward the bottom. Keep at it, your ill get it.
Unfortunately, it pains me to confirm that the 2009/2010 LNF engine has a different turbocharger oil supply line than the 2006-2008 cars. The line now routes around the front of the wastegate instead of under the wastegate near the oil return line. This makes it impossible to rotate the pump housing into a position that allows it to be pulled out without removing the turbo.
Hopefully this serves as a warning for 2009+ turbo Kappa cars.
Here we go with turbo removal. I'll report back good or bad at some point. Once again, thanks everyone!
A lot of components on that side can be pulled out through the bottom, or through the side (by removing the big plastic wheel well / fender liner / whatever you want to call it.
Have you talked to DDM? They do a lot of these and are typically happy to provide technical assistance.
Yeah, I talked to DDM. They said you really just have to keep working it until it comes out. I'm not sure they were aware that the turbo oil supply line routing changed for 2009+ LNF engines. It really makes it impossible to remove unless you collapse the line or remove it. I don't even see how to get to the block side banjo bolt unless I remove the catalytic converter though.
I found that I had to unbolt and shift the power steering reservoir on mine (If I did it over again, I would remove the reservoir and hose completely) and keep rotating until I finally squeezed it through. Took me a good 20 minutes but I finally got it out.
I will say that after going through all of that, I think removing the turbo might ultimately be easier and less time consuming.
Funny enough, if I could get it by all the other components that aren't the power steering hose and reservoir, I wouldn't mind removing it temporarily!
I found that I had to unbolt and shift the power steering reservoir on mine (If I did it over again, I would remove the reservoir and hose completely) and keep rotating until I finally squeezed it through. Took me a good 20 minutes but I finally got it out.
I will say that after going through all of that, I think removing the turbo might ultimately be easier and less time consuming.
Got everything back together (Water Pump, Thermostat, Turbo, Cat, etc.) and now have a CEL and the dreaded 'whirring' from the front end. Going to try and fix the noise (I wouldn't really call it a whine per se) before I get a code check. I presume I can reset the balance shaft chain tension without having to remove the timing chain right? Tearing into the front end tonight, any advice appreciated...
P.S., Once this is finished, I will be posting some pictures from the water pump replacement.
Yes you can remove the tensioner without removing the chain.
Honestly though, the timing and balancing kit is cheap enough, I would do it while you are in there but that's just me. It isn't difficult if you already are tearing down the front end. See this video
Side note, removing the hood, radiator, and fan, will make your life 1000x easier and give you great access.
I can verify, on his '09, the oil return line from the turbo blocked pulling the WP out. We compared and the '08 comes out and goes around the turbo...the '09 is more of a diagonal and the WP will not fit out of the opening. So something for all of you '09 owners!!
Thanks folks for sharing as i have enjoyed reading this thread & the you tube video helped me. I will probably never do the job myself but its great to know how things work.
I am about to start the bleeding stage. Just swapped the pump last night. Didn't think there was noise when started it for a test but will check again before filling. It looked like the way ddm was showing the fill should get it. Maybe force resirc fluid with air pressure until all air comes out?
Be extremely diligent about this. Even a small amount of air could wreak havoc. I took my car to a dealer to have it power bled and it still gets up to 210 with a new thermostat. I even pulled 0.6bar vacuum on the system when filling and that wasn't enough. The DDM method didn't work at all for me.
Unfortunately I'm right there with you. Although I wasn't super careful about making sure the heater core was full. I did end up taking it to a dealer and they were able to get some more air out. It's still not perfect (before all this work). Hadn't found the check valve TSB until it was all back together. Small bursts of air are still coming out when I drive it, let it cool, then open the surge tank, so I figure I'll just keep doing that and it will work it's way back to the 190-200 operating temps.
No, did not replace the thermostat. Have had no problems associated with pump replacement other than replacing it. It was a bugger-bear! I did remove the oil cooling lines from the turbo which finally allowed removal of the pump - it would not come out otherwise. Removing the oil lines was not a problem - no oil loss since the oil drains back to the sump, but I cautioned anyone doing this that the sealing rings must be replaced since they are a one time use item since they are crush washers. So don't take a chance with not replacing them.
Yeah, the eSI system actually states to replace those along with several other things. I replaced all o rings, turbo oil and coolant gaskets, turbo to manifold gasket, turbo to cat exhaust donut, turbo mounting nuts, cat mounting nuts, thermostat housing gasket and transfer pipe o rings. All of these are stated to be replaced by eSI when disassembling their corresponding joints so I replaced them.
No, did not replace the thermostat. Have had no problems associated with pump replacement other than replacing it. It was a bugger-bear! I did remove the oil cooling lines from the turbo which finally allowed removal of the pump - it would not come out otherwise. Removing the oil lines was not a problem - no oil loss since the oil drains back to the sump, but I cautioned anyone doing this that the sealing rings must be replaced since they are a one time use item since they are crush washers. So don't take a chance with not replacing them.
Well, I hung the surge tank while performing the factory bleed procedure. Coolant comes out of the surge line. (I can see it splashing into the tank)
Once the engine was warmed up, idle would swing between 192 and 199. Is this normal or still an air pocket? (Just want to make sure I'm not insane thinking it's air...)
Is it stable at 210 or are you shutting it down when it gets there?
I'm still dealing with my incidence of the balance chain tensioner breaking (which turns the water pump). Take off the water pump cover and use a camera to make sure it's turning appropriately.
Nobody chimed in??? Personally I would take it back to the dealer. You still have a bubble. Show them by taking them for a ride so the tech/shopforeman sees it. Or, like I did, leave the cap on loose to let the air escape and do what you said you did above for a couple of days. Are you getting heat out of the heater?
Paging Soup or RTE...soup or RTE to the podium please....
What it means is that this car/engine likes RPM's and if you are shifting to 4th or 5th gear the temps will climb if your speed is below 50 MPH.
One test to do is put it in neutral and let it idle, which usually will make the temp climb to 203 to 208 maybe 210, once is there rev the engine in neutral to 3K RPM and sustain it for a about a minute, then watch the temp go below 200.
What I am trying to say is the low gears such as 2nd and 3rd will make the engine run at RPM above the 3K thus bringing the temps down. 4th and 5th gear will let the engine rev at speeds well below 3K RPM at constant driving speeds thus making the temps a bit warmer.
You pretty much nailed how it is acting Latin. I'm just a little surprised since before the pump and tstat replacement the car never got over 200. Do you think I had a low temperature thermostat in it?
Again, this sounds exactly like how mine was acting when my balance chain tensioner broke and ate my crank sprocket. I would definitely remove the inspection cover, idle the car, and watch the water pump sprocket.
This is what it looked like on mine:
It should always be turning while the engine is running.
Again, this sounds exactly like how mine was acting when my balance chain tensioner broke and ate my crank sprocket. I would definitely remove the inspection cover, idle the car, and watch the water pump sprocket.
From what I hear u have to take it apart to 2 peaces an u learn how to take it apart with ur new pump. Hard job specially for 59 yr old woman 2500 if she goes in shop just have to have 2500 spare change
For WP replacement the shop manual used to have 2 options for removal. Removal of the turbo or removal of the cat. Dealer removed my cat and destroyed it by accident. Had to replace it. My total WP bill that was warrantied, $3600.
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