All-Season vs. Summer Tires - Page 2 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 07:47 AM
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I've never heard of all season performance tires so I'm glad they were mentioned. I've always heard that Michelin were top tiered tires so I check out the Pilot Sport A/S 3+ (H- OR V-SPEED RATED), 245/45 ZR18, priced around $190.

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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 04:23 PM
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All season performance? Respectfully, the very name suggests compromise somewhere along the way. Sort of like "winter tires" not being a good as actual snow tires when in snow.

Driving and working on a Sly 2008 Solstice GXP 5spd 260/260, and the worst-built 2012 LS3 Camaro 1SS to escape from Oshawa.

Gone but not forgotten:
2007 Solstice GXP 5 speed 290/340

Stored and needing to part ways with a 1970 Skylark Custom convertible I have owned since 1989 and turned into a GS455 clone. 462 with 7/8 primary headers, adjustable roller rockers, TA Performance Stage 1 aluminum heads, auto, Chevy 12 bolt, 3.31:1. Sadly a project car now but a driver from '89 to '06.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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All season gives me all the perfomance I need. I stopped driving at the ragged edge of control a long time ago. I suspect that all season tires satisfy the needs of 75% of the drivers here.

Chris

"Sunny" - '08 Brazen Orange 2.4 Auto... 7660 feet up in the mountains
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by CycleCat View Post
All season gives me all the perfomance I need. I stopped driving at the ragged edge of control a long time ago. I suspect that all season tires satisfy the needs of 75% of the drivers here.
Sorry, have to disagree with you here. i think it is more like 90%. Unless you take ego into consideration and then it might be only 50%.
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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I was guessing conservatively so as to not ruffle too many egos!

Chris

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 06:33 PM
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They just list them under performance when you look them up. I can not even tell you the name. And the car isn't here for me to look at them. Will get the name tomorrow.

Our freeways are really bad in SoCal, I have tried to make the Michelins work since I bought them. They follow every line in the freeway, no matter the air pressure. We do drive on 10 Freeway thru the pass area west of Palm Springs. Truck rutted to say the least and lots of continuous construction.. They are horrible in that situation. Not bad on smooth black top, but few roads in California are smooth.

I also use the RE 71R's on my yellow car and they truly work fantastic, but they will destroy your paint. Too sticky for daily driving. Great for autocross.

The wife drove the Sad Rock to a car show in Riverside last night. Made several comments how the green car would have been all over the road. I wasn't driving either of them, so no real comment. But I can say I would never put another set of the Michelin's on a Sky again. Maybe we just got a bad set or our roads are just too bad. Will have a great price on these for local pickup very soon is my guess. She truly hates them.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CycleCat View Post
All season gives me all the perfomance I need. I stopped driving at the ragged edge of control a long time ago. I suspect that all season tires satisfy the needs of 75% of the drivers here.
This is not directed at you; your reply is just the most succinct one, so I don't have to quote multiple people.

It's a funny thing, this internet. We are turning the arena of the subject itself into one of subjectivity rather than objectivity when we turn from specialization to all-around capability based on an outside influence; we involve a variable.

Are we talking about tire capability or driver capability, and does a "great for 75%" answer actually make that tire better than one which is designed to be "better" for more than that 75%?

It seems to me we are discussing tires, and the potential of the tire is not determined by the potential of the driver. And if we actually want to discuss the merits of a 'all season performance' vs 'performance' tires vis a vis driver ability we should be able to do better but it will require looking at numbers and presenting them meaningfully rather than leaving it at "you don't need it becasue I or he or she or we say so".

Driving and working on a Sly 2008 Solstice GXP 5spd 260/260, and the worst-built 2012 LS3 Camaro 1SS to escape from Oshawa.

Gone but not forgotten:
2007 Solstice GXP 5 speed 290/340

Stored and needing to part ways with a 1970 Skylark Custom convertible I have owned since 1989 and turned into a GS455 clone. 462 with 7/8 primary headers, adjustable roller rockers, TA Performance Stage 1 aluminum heads, auto, Chevy 12 bolt, 3.31:1. Sadly a project car now but a driver from '89 to '06.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 05:05 AM
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. . . . . . . But I can say I would never put another set of the Michelin's on a Sky again. Maybe we just got a bad set or our roads are just too bad. Will have a great price on these for local pickup very soon is my guess. She truly hates them.
Sounds like it is you to blame, not the tire You bought the wrong type of tire. Possibly your wife does not need or want a high performance summer tire at all.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CycleCat View Post
All season gives me all the perfomance I need. I stopped driving at the ragged edge of control a long time ago. I suspect that all season tires satisfy the needs of 75% of the drivers here.
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Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
Sorry, have to disagree with you here. i think it is more like 90%. Unless you take ego into consideration and then it might be only 50%.
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Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
This is not directed at you; your reply is just the most succinct one, so I don't have to quote multiple people.
Yeah, that multi-quote feature is way too complicated. Don't really know why.
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It's a funny thing, this internet. We are turning the arena of the subject itself into one of subjectivity rather than objectivity when we turn from specialization to all-around capability based on an outside influence; we involve a variable.

Are we talking about tire capability or driver capability, and does a "great for 75%" answer actually make that tire better than one which is designed to be "better" for more than that 75%?
For my part, and I assume CycleCat's as well, the reference is to tire capability and whether there is an actual "need" for it, regardless of driver ability. I think that our comments are based on the opinion that while the UHP summer tire does give measurably better performance the majority of drivers will never require it.
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It seems to me we are discussing tires, and the potential of the tire is not determined by the potential of the driver. And if we actually want to discuss the merits of a 'all season performance' vs 'performance' tires vis a vis driver ability we should be able to do better but it will require looking at numbers and presenting them meaningfully rather than leaving it at "you don't need it becasue I or he or she or we say so".
Starting at the end, you are confusing "don't need' with "shouldn't buy", and no one is saying that you shouldn't put whatever tires you want on your car. In my (our ?) opinion you do not "need" them to drive the speeds you are going to drive on the roads you are going to drive on. You may want them because you like the way they make the car feel, and they may actually improve your perception of the car's handling, and that is a perfectly valid reason to buy them. Actually, any reason that you have for wanting them is a perfectly valid reason for buying them, but it doesn't mean you need them.

You are correct that the potential of the tire is not dependent on the potential of the driver, but that isn't the point. In fact, driver ability really doesn't factor into the equation at all. It is not what you as a driver is capable of doing that should drive tire selection it is what you are planning to do, or are actually going to do, that matters. If you are going to go out and drive your car at the very limit of its and your ability then you need the best possible tire for the conditions you are going to be driving in. If you are going to go out and drive hard but within the limits of reasonable lawlessness, then you probably don't.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RedOne07 View Post
Sounds like it is you to blame, not the tire You bought the wrong type of tire. Possibly your wife does not need or want a high performance summer tire at all.
The tires he has and that he and his wife like are also high performance summer tires, so I don't think that is it.

I keep wondering if there is an alignment issue that the Michelins are sensitive to, or if he simply got a bad set of tires, but I really wish that i was local to him because I would love to put those on one of my cars to see what they do.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 09:50 AM
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For my part, and I assume CycleCat's as well, the reference is to tire capability and whether there is an actual "need" for it, regardless of driver ability. I think that our comments are based on the opinion that while the UHP summer tire does give measurably better performance the majority of drivers will never require it.
I agree with that. I probably wouldn't even have a set of summer tires except that's what came on my Solstice when I bought it. Up until that point, I'd never even heard of a "summer tire." All Seasons are just "what you do."

And down here in Hooterville, even the tire shops aren't familiar with them. I stopped by one and asked about a second set of wheels so I could run both the Summers and All Seasons by simply changing them out in my own front yard. They had no idea what summer tires were - and wanted me to bring them by so they could see such an odd animal, like it was a two headed alligator in a pickle jar or something. I said, "Dude, the only visual difference is they don't say All Season or MS on the sidewall."

But just sayin', the "UHP All Seasons" are a step up from the "standard" All Seasons, but don't have the performance capability of a "Summer" tire, which generally has a softer compound and a AA traction rating.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:54 AM
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Be very careful with single season tires. I will never do it again!! I had a set of Toyo Proxie F1s summer tires for my Mustang. By the second year, with only 5k total on them, all of the belts had separated in all 4 tires and caused horrible vibrations. Toyo and TireRack wouldn't do anything for me on them. Furthermore, they were supposed to be the best "wet" tire for summer driving....they were the worst tire I've ever owned for rain. 45mph on the freeway was max in a moderate rain storm. I could do 75mph+ with my all season storage tires!! I can only imagine that a Kappa car would be less speed in rain because they're lighter. They were also a much rougher ride as summer tires are usually harder compound.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 11:41 AM
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In many countries it is standard to have single season tires and have two set of wheels, one with summer tires and one with winter tires.
I grew up that way, but it got a lot less common in most areas with the introduction of all-season tires. Winter/non-winter seems to be a lot more popular combination than summer/non-summer. Most of the time I think that people choose a higher profile tire for winter, making dedicated wheels pretty much a requirement.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Unread Today, 08:41 AM
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You are correct that the potential of the tire is not dependent on the potential of the driver, but that isn't the point. In fact, driver ability really doesn't factor into the equation at all.

Disagree strongly when the comments are that a high percentage of drivers cannot do X Y or Z with the tire. By definition, driver ability is forced into the equation by that scenario.

Driving and working on a Sly 2008 Solstice GXP 5spd 260/260, and the worst-built 2012 LS3 Camaro 1SS to escape from Oshawa.

Gone but not forgotten:
2007 Solstice GXP 5 speed 290/340

Stored and needing to part ways with a 1970 Skylark Custom convertible I have owned since 1989 and turned into a GS455 clone. 462 with 7/8 primary headers, adjustable roller rockers, TA Performance Stage 1 aluminum heads, auto, Chevy 12 bolt, 3.31:1. Sadly a project car now but a driver from '89 to '06.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Unread Today, 12:09 PM
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Disagree strongly when the comments are that a high percentage of drivers cannot do X Y or Z with the tire. By definition, driver ability is forced into the equation by that scenario.
I do not believe that I made any comment about any driver not being able to do anything.
If I did please point it out and I will delete or re-state it because I did not intend to say it.

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