Engine died, replaced batterythromycin now no crank. - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #1 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Engine died, replaced battery, now no crank.

So I was driving and pulled to a stop light and the engine died, restarted and drove for a mile or so again to another stop and the engine died again, this time when it retired it was backfiring and running rough. Pulled over and it died again, when I tried to restart the starter would spin but not engage.

Replaced the battery and everything seems to work, lights gauges, etc but the starter will not spin. Read the codes and see a U0100 lost Coms with ECM/PCM A.

Checked all the fuses under the hood (in the fuse box) and everything having enough to do with the starter and ECM is fine.

When I attempt to start it I get the following, Service ESC / Service Traction and the little ESC warning light is on.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Regards

Last edited by McDoug; 08-06-2019 at 05:15 AM.
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post #2 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 05:54 PM
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There is also an ECM fuse in the BCM, along with one for the ignition switch.

You stated starter and ECM fuses are OK, are any others blown?

Is the battery fully charged? Did you reset the code?

Has anything else happened or been done to the car recently?

Manual or Auto, GXP or NA, year?

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post #3 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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John, I looked at every fuse in the engine bay fuse box that was labled ECM or Crank, I gave the others a quick visual and all looked ok.
Where in the BCM located?
Battery is fully charged. 12.65 at rest.
I cleared the code but it returned.
I added a CAI a month or so ago, otherwise nothing added and the car has run fine. I have detected a whistle under light load / light throttle low rpm. Everything appears fine. All clamps tight and all tubes appear to be in place. I've been led to believe that it is normal for a CAI.

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post #4 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 08:16 PM
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Where in the BCM located?
Passenger side footwell. Check your owner's manual. Don't have one? Download a copy from my.gm.com.



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post #5 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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Nice, tks.
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post #6 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 09:59 AM
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Just some random thoughts on this:

The intake would have nothing to do with this. The whistle is normal with every aftermarket intake for these cars that I've seen.

A bad battery would typically not cause the car to stall. The car runs off of the alternator, not the battery, when the engine is running. An exception would be a battery that is so terrible that it's pulling down the voltage in the system.)

U* errors are indicative of a communications error (CAN bus). That could be an issue with the bus itself, a fuse (as already mentioned) or a bad module such as the BCM or ECM. Those things could certainly cause the engine to stop, and prevent it from starting. A bad computer will also cause the ESC error.

If the starter isn't spinning at all, given the other information you've provided, it sounds like the ECM isn't requesting the start. Normally, I'd suspect anti-theft (is the security light on in the instrument cluster?) or fuses. But, given the other issues here, it's possible that you have a bad ECM. However, since you're able to retrieve DTCs, the ECM is clearly at least *partially* working. The BCM would be my next suspect.

If you have HP Tuners available, you can see the "start commanded" flag when trying to start the car. If that doesn't change, then it's unlikely that the issue has anything to do with the starter.

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post #7 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 10:34 AM
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Just to throw something out there. When you did the CIA recheck all the electrical connections to the sensors you know disconnect connect. I missed cant even say I forgot to connect one up was on another car. It started and ran but backfire and rough shut it down right away. Has to be a safe mode. Possible something is not right so it wont let you start if its over a few times. Wouldnt over look injectors and you have enough gas up there
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post #8 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TireKicker View Post
Just to throw something out there. When you did the CIA recheck all the electrical connections to the sensors you know disconnect connect. I missed cant even say I forgot to connect one up was on another car. It started and ran but backfire and rough shut it down right away. Has to be a safe mode. Possible something is not right so it wont let you start if its over a few times. Wouldnt over look injectors and you have enough gas up there
Please be more thorough in your writing. I can't understand anything you are talking about. I think you're telling him to check all of the sensors. He put a CAI in over a month ago...there would be no connectors that would cause the car to stall...especially after a month.

As Raygun stated, there are only 2 ways the car would stall from a battery issue. The first as he stated, the second would be that your alternator is completely shot. Which could be the case since you have what sounds like to be, some electrical gremlins. When voltage is low in these cars, it creates all sorts of weird little electrical issues. And I've heard of it creating issues with the security of your ignition key chip and locking the ignition system, but usually it's followed with a security light as well on the dash. My second question is, is your new battery any good? I had a bad one the first time I did my battery almost 2 years ago. Just because it's reading 12 volts doesn't mean it has enough amps!!
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post #9 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 11:35 AM
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Here's a good read on the U0100 - https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...41/index2.html

From what I read, I would do the following:

Clear the U0100 if you can with a scan tool.
Disconnect the battery
Disconnect and reconnect the ECM plugs. Make sure they are clean and have no burn spots or dirty connectors and push them in sturdily
Disconnect and reconnect the BCM plugs. Make sure they are clean and have no burn spots or dirty connectors and push them in sturdily
Finally I'm assuming you have a pedal car....check the neutral switch on the clutch and make sure it's good, if you don't have a pedal car, make sure the park switch is good. To do this, put your car in neutral and try to start it.
Reconnect the battery and try to start it.


I also read that the ECM has lost connection to the TCM (Traction Control Module...note, not the BCM) and this is the cause for the ESC and TCM light being illumintated. However, I'm wondering if the person that commented on that is correct. I'm not certain myself....

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ASAP T2 stripes and badging
Windrestrictor V2 lighted in white
Windrestrictor lighted door sills lighted in white
DDM Works IC Piping
Undercar LEDs in white to match Windrestrictor

ZZPerformance dyno tuned - 286HP, 317ft/lbs of torque at 23psi of boost.
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post #10 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 11:56 AM
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I can't think of anything that would be disconnected to install a CAI that would cause this, but anything is possible. When troubleshooting electrical problems it is always a good idea to go back to any related connectors that have been messed with to confirm that they are correctly connected, and that the wiring wasn't mis-routed and damaged. I have seen connectors that were not quite latched work themselves loose at a later time, so re-checking them is never a bad idea. It doesn't take long (usually) and at least eliminates them as a possibility. It wouldn't be a bad idea to check all of the connectors that you can find just to rule them out.

Another thing to do because there is no reason not to is to re-seat, or unplug and re-plug all of the fuses and relays. Fuses have been know to vibrate loose and it doesn't take much to make sure they are OK.

Without a functional battery in the circuit the generator can have some strange problems, from overvoltage spikes to low voltage, and we all know what low voltage can do to the electronic controls in these cars.

The original problem reads like a bad battery and/or generator, with conditions getting worse with every re-start. The worst case would be that the failing battery/generator has damaged the ECM. The U0100 could easily be sent by the BCM, so a dead ECM is not out of the question.

This really is a problem that needs a proper scanner for diagnosis, but one other thing that can be checked without it is to unplug the ECM and check for 1) the same DTC and 2) voltage at the power pin in the ECM connector.

It would also be useful to check the battery voltage with the car powered on, and even load it as much as possible (with headlights, fan, brakelights, whatever will come on) to confirm that it is probably OK. It isn't a perfect test but will usually show a battery with a dead cell that won't always be apparent in a static voltage check.

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post #11 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
.........I also read that the ECM has lost connection to the TCM (Traction Control Module...note, not the BCM) and this is the cause for the ESC and TCM light being illumintated. However, I'm wondering if the person that commented on that is correct. I'm not certain myself....
I think TCM is Transmission Control Module
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post #12 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 01:31 PM
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FWIW, Another tidbit:

On my G35, I know for certain that the car will crank (but obviously not start) with the ECM (or ECU in Nissan parlance, 'cause we all need different abbreviations for the same thing) completely disconnected.

I haven't tried that on a Solstice, but the point is that a bad ECM will not necessarily keep the engine from turning over. YMMV.

I'm also curious what crazy spellcheck / autocorrect widget concatenated "battery" with "erythromycin" to get "batterythromycin."

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Last edited by raygun; 07-28-2019 at 02:12 PM.
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post #13 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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First, thank you all for your insight. You`ve given me numerous things to check.

I'll let you know how it goes.

(Auto-correct compliments of samsung galaxy view (andr ok od))
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post #14 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 03:32 PM Thread Starter
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So, I had left the battery on the charger. With a volt meter on the battery, key off 13.35 0 draw on the charger and at rest no charger, 12.6 v. Disconnected the charger Key on 12.3 with lights on 12.23 ish, start position 12.15 ish.

I've bypassed the ground cable and using jumper cables grounded the battery to the engine block. Voltages are much more stable but still no crank. Key to start 12.35 v.
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post #15 of 148 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 03:36 PM
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That voltage is a *slightly* low, but not terrible.

If it is not even *attempting* to crank at 12V-13V, then the computer just isn't activating the starter, or it can't. "Can't" is the easiest to diagnose and correct. Even a bad starter will typically spin even if the solenoid is bad.

So, we're back to looking at the starting flowchart. Requirements that come to mind are:

(I'm proceeding under the assumption that this car is a manual as I haven't noticed any indication otherwise.)

Clutch down. This requires a functioning clutch switch. That would not cause the car to stall, but it would prevent it from starting.

Key recognized. If this is the problem, you'll see the lock symbol illuminated in the instrument cluster. That could be due to a disagreement or lack of communication between the ECM, BCM and ignition module, or (and I've never personally seen this happen) a bad key.

Solid connection between the starter and the battery (positive cable)
Good ground on the starter
Good signal to the starter (purple wire IIRC)

Harness firmly seated into the bottom of the engine bay fuse box.
All fuses and relays working and properly seated.
(Same thing for the BCM.)

... a bunch of other crap that I can't remember. The service manual has a pretty thorough description of the circuit and checks that are performed before the starter is activated.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, Werks Big Wheel K04 and tune, Solo catless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces, RPM rollbar

Last edited by raygun; 07-28-2019 at 03:46 PM.
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