Engine temperature under sustained boost? - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-30-2018, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Engine temperature under sustained boost?

My topic here is not really engine temperature under sustained boost, but close enough.
I did a hard run up a mountain with my totally stock GXP simply to get a baseline feel for the car before I add a tune and chassis braces. Figure approximately 2500 foot climb over 6 1/2 twisty miles in about 10 minutes.
Engine temperature under sustained boost?-mountain.jpg
With many hairpin turns along the way up, obviously I was not under sustained boost, but you get the idea. Definitely seeing 15-20 psi on the short straights. Yes, I was keeping an eye on the boost the whole way up. At the top I putted around a little bit before parking at Mother's Kitchen, leaving the engine idling. Figured I keep her running until the temp came back down to normal. So I checked the temp then. Shocked to see 235 F at this point, knowing it had to be higher a few minutes earlier. The cooling fan sounded like it was on fast mode. It came down to 210 quick enough, then I headed back down the mountain.

I never saw the idiot light for high temp come on. So that means it never got hot enough to cause damage, right? AC and heat were both off by the way. My searches on this forum seem to indicate that going up to 240 F for a little while is ok. Any educated opinions on this out there? And what temp turns on the idiot light? It seems obvious the same run after a Trifecta tune could get things even hotter. I wish I had been watching temperature instead of boost. So what are the experiences running a GXP on an autocross or real track? Can the stock cooling system handle the load? What maximum temps are you guys seeing? Will a water wetter added to my coolant solve my problem? Do I even have a problem?

I've only had the Solstice a few weeks and never see high temperatures on normal street use. My only similar previous experience with a turbo, was my 1991 Mitsubishi 2.0 with intercooler and I could run that as hard as it would go up a mountain and it's temperature gauge never moved up toward red.

Last edited by Alannn; 10-30-2018 at 09:02 PM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 03:40 AM
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The ECM will shut down the motor if it sees over temp Going up a mountain here it's not unusual to see 220 or a bit higher while just driving briskly, not hard. In my opinion 235 is high but not "too" high

Check the radiator for obstructions. They tend to collect grass, leaves and shopping brags that adversely impact air flow. Also, check the condition of the lower rubber air dam. They are essential for proper cooling

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-31-2018, 06:40 AM
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If you only looked at the temp after a period of idling after sustained speed, your temps were probably HIGHER than they were when moving - due to reduced airflow and heatsoak.

If you listened you might even have heard your radiator fan switch on (or go to higher speed) after you stopped.

If you do this again, monitor (well, glance at) your DIC while you are actually driving.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 10:44 AM
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For comparison, my HHR SS (LNF) will climb to 225-230 during a 4 mile climb up a 6% grade going 70-75MPH in 100F outside temps with the AC on. Once the road levels out the temps will drop to 200-ish. If I come to a stop, the temps will hover in the 200-210 range for 10 minutes but rarely settle below 200F. Any downhill will drop to the 190's. If I were to stop immediately after hitting 225F, it would take 5 minutes to drop down. Raising the idle some helps speed up the drop but it will settle around 205.

So the only thing different I see is that the temps stayed so high after you came to a stop. I would expect them to drop back to the low 200's. But it you stopped right after it getting that high, it could take some time to drop.

I yes, I understand the air flow through the cooling stack is probably different in the HRR vs the Kappa.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Once I checked temp at 235 F, I saw it dropping rapidly during idle. The problem is I didn't get to see the temp as soon as I got to the top, when it would have been highest. It had to be higher than 235 F. Foolishly I was watching boost during the climb instead of temperature. I may add a water wetter and try it again, but really would like an answer first:

What temp does the idiot light come on? I would consider this the lowest dangerous high temperature.


@rob the elder:
Radiator is clean. Air dam is perfect. Do you know what temp ecu shuts down the engine?

Thanks for all the replies.

I did have a rental car once go into the red zone on a 2000 foot climb, but for some reason I am more concerned about my new to me Solstice.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2018, 06:00 PM
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I thought I read 240F but it might be higher. For me, 240 or 250 isnt the issue (the engine will survive just fine) but rather if the coolant will stay in the engine. If I saw 240 I would slow down.

On really hot days where I am blasting up steep grades I monitor the coolant. But I also have the benefit of the boost gauge. During these blasts up the grades I am around 5 PSI where the GMPP code clamps the boost until you really roll into it.

I've never seen an over-temp warning.

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Last edited by AWATS; 11-01-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
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For me, 240 or 250 isnt the issue (the engine will survive just fine) but rather if the coolant will stay in the engine.
Personallly I think 240 is TOOOOOO hot for an LNF!!! Your motor won't stick around long around that tempurature. You're getting very close (about 10 degrees) from disaster with an LNF motor.

Now onto the other question. I assume your 6.5 mile run was all uphill with no coasting? If so, these motors have what's called DFCO (Direct Fuel Cut Off) during coasting. This is where your motor will cool the quickest as it shuts off almost all fuel to the cylinders and brings in the fresh, cool air to very rapidly cool your motor. I've watched mine drop 30 degrees in less then 1/2 mile coasting down from 70mph. If it can't enter this mode going up a long hill, while spirited driving, you're eventually going to have a problem with heat. Especially in a turbo car....especially in a turbo car that doesn't have a larger IC or aftermarket radiator. 6.5 miles of being at 1/4 throttle or more for 15 minutes is like running your car on a track at 100+mph (about 4500rpm IMSMC). Or on again 75-100% and very little lifting. It just doesn't work in a factory equiped car with no aftermarket parts!!

EDIT: DO NOT ADD WATERWETTER!!! Too many reason against it to list. Simply change your coolant and your thermostat. I did mine last spring and my car doesn't go above 198 degrees now. If you get a Trifecta tune, you might be better off. How do you know that you don't have a Trifecta already? Your mpg can increase too from a tune. I seen an increase from 25mpg on the highway to around 37mpg with my dyno tune, but many here scoff at my claims. Our last outing that I was at, we drove 210 miles of spirirted driving and I averaged 34.5mpg....I showed several other members.

____________________________________________

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Windrestrictor lighted door sills lighted in white
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ZZPerformance dyno tuned - 286HP, 317ft/lbs of torque at 23psi of boost.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2018, 09:01 PM
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My LS shut down at 240 once. I believe that is the limit.

I chose to add Ice to my LS coolant and it has not hurt anything and probably done a little good.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-15-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
Personallly I think 240 is TOOOOOO hot for an LNF!!! Your motor won't stick around long around that tempurature. You're getting very close (about 10 degrees) from disaster with an LNF motor.

Now onto the other question. I assume your 6.5 mile run was all uphill with no coasting? If so, these motors have what's called DFCO (Direct Fuel Cut Off) during coasting. This is where your motor will cool the quickest as it shuts off almost all fuel to the cylinders and brings in the fresh, cool air to very rapidly cool your motor. I've watched mine drop 30 degrees in less then 1/2 mile coasting down from 70mph. If it can't enter this mode going up a long hill, while spirited driving, you're eventually going to have a problem with heat. Especially in a turbo car....especially in a turbo car that doesn't have a larger IC or aftermarket radiator. 6.5 miles of being at 1/4 throttle or more for 15 minutes is like running your car on a track at 100+mph (about 4500rpm IMSMC). Or on again 75-100% and very little lifting. It just doesn't work in a factory equiped car with no aftermarket parts!!

EDIT: DO NOT ADD WATERWETTER!!! Too many reason against it to list. Simply change your coolant and your thermostat. I did mine last spring and my car doesn't go above 198 degrees now. If you get a Trifecta tune, you might be better off. How do you know that you don't have a Trifecta already? Your mpg can increase too from a tune. I seen an increase from 25mpg on the highway to around 37mpg with my dyno tune, but many here scoff at my claims. Our last outing that I was at, we drove 210 miles of spirirted driving and I averaged 34.5mpg....I showed several other members.

Yep. There isn't enough cooling to stay in the throttle forever. However, my HHR SS seems to level out in the mid-220's. It is amazing how fast the temps drop when you get out of it and especially in fuel cutoff.

DFCO is deceleration fuel cutoff not direct unless GM changed the term at some point. The fuel isn't cutoff but the AFR drops into the 18 to 20:1 range depending on the application.

2008 HHR SS 5spd
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Last edited by AWATS; 11-15-2018 at 03:22 PM.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-16-2018, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
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Yep. There isn't enough cooling to stay in the throttle forever. However, my HHR SS seems to level out in the mid-220's. It is amazing how fast the temps drop when you get out of it and especially in fuel cutoff.

DFCO is deceleration fuel cutoff not direct unless GM changed the term at some point. The fuel isn't cutoff but the AFR drops into the 18 to 20:1 range depending on the application.
It depends on what articles you read on it.... Some say direct, others say deceleration. My AFR goes to 29.4 during DFCO.

____________________________________________

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Fujita CAI
ASAP T2 stripes and badging
Windrestrictor V2 lighted in white
Windrestrictor lighted door sills lighted in white
DDM Works IC Piping
Undercar LEDs in white to match Windrestrictor

ZZPerformance dyno tuned - 286HP, 317ft/lbs of torque at 23psi of boost.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-17-2018, 09:09 AM
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It depends on what articles you read on it.... Some say direct, others say deceleration. My AFR goes to 29.4 during DFCO.

Wow, that's pretty lean alright! I haven't watched mine. I'll check it sometime.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-29-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob the elder View Post
My LS shut down at 240 once. I believe that is the limit.
Just another data point: when the head gasket blew on my '06, it got WAY over 240* and did not shut itself off. Even when it hit 300*, it kept running.

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'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 08:05 AM
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That is odd. Mine has the stock GXP ECM and it shut down right away. It said "cant determine temperature, . . two readings are not agreeing so shutting down for safety" or words to that affect.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 08:09 AM
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Hmmm... maybe it's a GXP vs NA thing? Or something else that changed when they switched ECM models. I believe that was in '07, but could've been '08.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 01-30-2019, 10:43 AM
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I use Royal Purple Purple Ice in both the Solstice and Chevelle with no ill effects . Big block Chevelles are noted for running hot and mine runs at 185 to 190 and never over 210 even on a hot day in traffic ,the Solstice runs in the 190 to 195 range with the fan kicking on at 214 .
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