UGGHH, introduced air into the cooling system - Page 5 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #61 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
Respectfully, check that sir. Your overflow tank is NOT at radiator pressure.
Respectfully, I have a burn scar on my left arm from this exact thing happening, on this car, about two years ago.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

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Last edited by raygun; 08-18-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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post #62 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 01:21 PM
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Not from my example you don't. You've missed where it was an old car in my example.

While I should not have typed "your" as that was me creating confusion, my entire paragraph was using an example other than a Solstice. I also doubt green coolant is in your kappa.

Driving and working on a Sly 2008 Solstice GXP 5spd 260/260, and the worst-built 2012 LS3 Camaro 1SS to escape from Oshawa.

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Stored and needing to part ways with a 1970 Skylark Custom convertible I have owned since 1989 and turned into a GS455 clone. 462 with 7/8 primary headers, adjustable roller rockers, TA Performance Stage 1 aluminum heads, auto, Chevy 12 bolt, 3.31:1. Sadly a project car now but a driver from '89 to '06.

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post #63 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 01:27 PM
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I also wish we could regard my question, instead of simply seeing a chance to correct somebody.

Driving and working on a Sly 2008 Solstice GXP 5spd 260/260, and the worst-built 2012 LS3 Camaro 1SS to escape from Oshawa.

Gone but not forgotten:
2007 Solstice GXP 5 speed 290/340

Stored and needing to part ways with a 1970 Skylark Custom convertible I have owned since 1989 and turned into a GS455 clone. 462 with 7/8 primary headers, adjustable roller rockers, TA Performance Stage 1 aluminum heads, auto, Chevy 12 bolt, 3.31:1. Sadly a project car now but a driver from '89 to '06.
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post #64 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 02:16 PM
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FWIW.... I read somewhere that the BEST penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone, just don't want to get it on painted surfaces

Bill
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post #65 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by wmf246 View Post
FWIW.... I read somewhere that the BEST penetrating oil is a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone, just don't want to get it on painted surfaces

Bill
I've tried everything over the years but haven't heard of that one. What is ATF?

I get good results from the PBBlaster. Stinks like the dickens but really works well.

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post #66 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
Not from my example you don't. You've missed where it was an old car in my example.

While I should not have typed "your" as that was me creating confusion, my entire paragraph was using an example other than a Solstice. I also doubt green coolant is in your kappa.
I'm not trying to argue with you. Apologies if it comes across that way.

There most certainly was green coolant in the blue car at that time. (Yes, I know about orange Dexcool, mixing the two (bad), corrosion, etc. The coolant was changed before I bought the car. )

The reservoir cap even says:



I only point this out because I'd rather avoid having someone that reads this thread assume that it's safe to take the cap off while the engine is hot. Sorry if I misinterpreted your post.
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Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, Werks Big Wheel K04 and tune, Solo catless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces, RPM rollbar

Last edited by raygun; 08-18-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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post #67 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
I'm still baffled at how a semi-enclosed system has this issue.
What, exactly, is a semi-enclosed cooling system? Open cooling systems as used in boats circulate outside water through the engine and then dump it to remove the heat. Closed sysems as used in everything else recirculate the same water through the engine and then a radiator or other heat exchanger. Semi-enclosed doesn't really make sense.
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I'm talking about air being trapped in a semi-enclosed cooling system by the act of adding coolant to an overflow tank.
Why talk about an overflow tank in a discussion about a Solstice? We don't have overflow tanks, we have a surge tank.
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Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
LOL I don't know where the confusion is coming from.

GM has been using semi-enclosed cooling systems for over half a century. The overflow tank for example in my 1970 Buick does exactly what it is supposed to do, and this is where you add coolant, not the radiator. Adding coolant to the tank prevents cavitation, and also exciting things like a column of boiling green liquid possibly appearing like magic when you open the radiator cap.

In my old muscle car club, many times I patiently explained to fellow enthusiasts that they would prefer a jiggle valve in the thermostat, yes indeed they should actually run the car with a thermostat, they should use a fan shroud, the overflow tank etc. etc. despite the fairy tales and myths their uncles and older brothers told around the campfire.

I don't misunderstand any of this and I'm not asking for tips and tricks, but I appreciate the extension of advice; I simply haven't indicated I was looking for it. Like I said, what I do not understand is how this air-bubble-in-the-system issue is happening in a 21st century automobile using a very well understood semi-enclosed cooling system. There is either a technique being done wrong or a flaw in the system as designed.
Part of the confusion is coming from you talking about characteristics of a system that doesn't exist in the car under discussion. Another part is coming from you using terms that either don't exist or don't apply here. Again, why talk about things that have no meaning in this discussion? You can't add coolant to an overflow tank because we don't have them. You also don't add it to the radiator, of course, but you do add it to the surge tank that shares characteristics with both. Its level changes like an overflow tank, but it is under pressure like a radiator.
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Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
Respectfully, check that sir. The overflow tank is NOT at radiator pressure in my example.

You will please bear in mind that the paragraph which you have quoted from is not in reference to a Solstice. Snipping out a sentence in reference to my old car example sort of skews things.
Again, what was the point of the reference to a technology that doesn't exist n this car? You really are only adding needless confusion.
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Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
Not from my example you don't. You've missed where it was an old car in my example.
While I should not have typed "your" as that was me creating confusion, my entire paragraph was using an example other than a Solstice. I also doubt green coolant is in your kappa.
Yes, mis-typing, and using the wrong words can create some serious problems when using a communications medium that relies solely on words.
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I also wish we could regard my question, instead of simply seeing a chance to correct somebody.
I actually haven't found an actual question in your posts, but there is the one implied by your statement of being confused, so here goes with that:

Because of the TSB directing installation of check valves into two hoses to combat the problems of excessive temperature and limited HVAC heat, it can be assumed that the problem is reverse flow in those lines. The lines are intended to vent air bubbles from the tops of the radiator and the head into the surge tank, but examination of the tank reveals that their connection at the top of that tank could result in air being pulled from the top of the tank if the conditions exist for there to be lower pressure in the radiator or head than there is in the tank. Clearly that condition was not anticipated by the designers, or discovered in the pre-production testing, but has since been confirmed to exist in some cases. Hence the addition of check valves.
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post #68 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 03:00 PM
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I think chrisblair has a good point about possible design problems. In most older cars, the top of the radiator was usually the highest point in the coolant system, the most obvious place for air to collect, and the most obvious place for a filler cap. Hence the name, radiator cap. As designs changed, the radiator cap had a built in spring loaded valve that would vent fluid and air to atmosphere and allow it to flow into a non pressurized overflow tank. when the system cooled, the fluid from the overflow tank would be sucked back into the radiator.

manufacturers recommended topping off fluids by adding to the overflow tank rather than removing the radiator cap. while you could top off by using either the radiator cap or the overflow cap, it was safer to add to the overflow tank rather than risk a scalding by removing the radiator cap.

sleeker cars, lower hoods, and even lower radiators have changed all that, making many maintenance tasks more difficult.

I guess we are just stuck with the problem.

Bill.
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post #69 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 03:29 PM
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I've tried everything over the years but haven't heard of that one. What is ATF?

I get good results from the PBBlaster. Stinks like the dickens but really works well.

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post #70 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-18-2019, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
and also exciting things like a column of boiling green liquid possibly appearing like magic when you open the radiator cap.

Incorrect. The system is under pressure - even at the reservoir - and it will happily spray a stream of coolant WAY up in the air.




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I can confirm that I opened my collant cap when empty (very slowly too) and a crap ton of coolant came out of nowhere. Definitely pressurized.

So I made some progress, got the intake hoses off, the wipers and cowling off (wipers were a huge pain), just need to remove the thermostat housing and pull the old pump out.

From all of the diagrams and videos I've been watching. I'm starting to believe I blew the seal on the inlet pipe to the water pump. I sure hope that's the case as the only other thing it could be is a cracked head/block, no?
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post #71 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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I was thinking that this was going to be O-ring failure of the inlet tube to the water pump, but on further inspection of my video it seems that the inlet tube is completely dry. This has me terribly worried. The only other thing in that location would be a cracked block, no?
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post #72 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:23 AM
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There's quite a bit of stuff there. Coolant lines to the turbo, heater core hoses, thermostat housing, the pump itself...

This is why I suggested using the dye. You'd know with absolute certainty where the leak is.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, Werks Big Wheel K04 and tune, Solo catless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces, RPM rollbar
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post #73 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 09:44 AM Thread Starter
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The leak is pretty strong, it's not that I can't tell where it's coming from, it's that I can't physically see the source from any angle without an inspection camera or something. My head is too fat to fit in behind it.
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post #74 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 07:59 AM
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A cheap wifi bore scope may help you out here. I have a $30-ish model (Amazon, of course) that I used to inspect the valves awhile back. Also works great for seeing in tight places.

Depending on how much space you have: I've also used the front-facing camera on my phone to look under and behind things.

Given that the car ran fine for a few hundred miles after you got it, and if you really didn't see temps over the 250 you mentioned earlier, I'd be very surprised if the head or block were cracked. Even the head gasket shouldn't die at those temps.

I suppose you've checked the oil to make sure that it's not contaminated with coolant?

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, Werks Big Wheel K04 and tune, Solo catless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces, RPM rollbar
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post #75 of 139 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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It did spike to like 260-265 at one point but the car was immediately shut down and left to cool on it's own as to avoid cracking anything (I cracked a radiator like that once).

There is no coolant in the oil at all. Runs 100% fine while running the engine to move it around in the driveway and as i said before, there USED to be a nasty bearing noise prior to this incident that sounded like a bad pulley bearing and ever since the leak started, that noise has disappeared completely. The leak is not coming from the inlet pipe, nor is it coming from the weep hole on the top.

My worst fear is that one of the coolant channels near the outside of the engine has cracked externally, is that possible on this engine? As far as I can tell, there is nothing in that vicinity besides the water pump, the inlet pipe, and the block. Looking at the video, you can see the entire inlet pipe and it appears to be completely dry which leaves a couple failure points: Outlet gasket failure, housing gasket failure, cracked water channel on the outside of the block.

I have an inspection camera somewhere (one of those cheap amazon ones ) but I never got it to work, I guess I will try it again.
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