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GM Stage II Kit review

213K views 647 replies 154 participants last post by  ZPM 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all!

I am the owner of a 2008 Solstice GXP, whose name is Flash. My wife refers to it as a "he", I am prone to referencing it as a "she". In deference to my wife's wishes, I shall refer to it as neutral gender or by name.

Flash is Carbon Flash Metallic (Magnetic), and through a string of fortunate events is the recipient of the first official aftermarket install of the Performance Upgrade Kit for the Solstice/SKY.


How did this happen, you may ask.

Under full disclosure, I am an engineer that works on the platform for General Motors. I cannot answer questions regarding future product plans, so please do not ask. My name is Steve Padilla, and I have met with many of the members here on the forum and have been involved with the forum through many channels almost from the beginning. I have spoken to and/or met with just about all of the administrators, supermoderators and moderators on this forum. I have had to be very careful about any information disclosed, and have only recently decided to register on the forum after buying and taking delivery of Flash, since I am now an official owner. Any opinions expressed in my posts are my own, and I do not represent General Motors, nor am I participating on this forum as a GM representative.


When a new performance upgrade kit is developed, it is necessary to try these kits on production vehicles. Sometimes it is with a company-owned saleable vehicle, but many times in exchange for being a trial install guinea pig, a lucky actual owner of a production vehicle becomes the first install. This owner also becomes a 'sentinel' for potential issues or problems, and the install becomes a test case for checking the proper part numbers, correct instructions, and such.

This is the case with me. In exchange for the 'rental' of my car for the day it took to go over the installation instructions and install it, Flash is the first recipient of install #1 for a GM SPO dealer install verification. There were no saleable company cars available, and since I am an engineer with lots of experience with the platform and the vehicle, and one who actually loved the product so much he ran out and bought one, it made sense to make Flash the first test install.

Keep in mind that test installs do not always go well. This one went fairly well, though, so fear not. There were a few typo errors and wrong part numbers in the installation instructions, and an issue with the calibration availability that were found. I also had to have a new tire installed because the porter accidentally cut the sidewall when driving Flash onto the hoist. This was done free of charge, of course, but also added hours while the service garage obtained a replacement tire. Better to find these issues during a trial install with a patient employee than have customers have a very bad time at a dealership.


So much for the story of how Flash became install #1, I can forward some official information and my observations so far in my next post. If you have other questions, post them here and I'll do my best to have accurate answers for them.
 
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#3 ·
Welcome to the forum and thankyou for joining Steve.

I know there has to be great care about the information you leak Steve, but how about one tiny little morsel. One tiny tidbit. ALL I desire ia a 3 digit number with the unit "Kpa" behind it. One that represents the range of the new op ssytem.. The rest I can wait.... PLEEEEEEAAASE?? I'll give you a super special deal on a wheel upgrade!!!!/gt30R!!!
 
#5 · (Edited)
I am not sure, but I think it is a 2.5 bar range sensor.

Correction, it is a 3.0 bar sensor.
 
#4 · (Edited)
First of all, I had the following installed:

19212670 Performance Upgrade Kit for Solstice

Applicable: 2007, 2008, 2009 Solstice GXP/SKY RedLine

Retail Price: Still TBD as of 11/20/2008, expected to be less than $1000.

Installation labor: not included. Guideline is 1 hour installation.

Retail Availability:
2007-2008 Model Year estimated on or before 12/15/2008
2009 Model year estimated 2nd Quarter 2009, after introduction of 2009 2.0l turbo model in production (requires different calibration/software and certification after the production application has been sold)

Premium fuel is REQUIRED with this kit.

This performance upgrade enables no-lift shift feature.

What's in the box:
1 - 11589015 Bolt Tmap Sensor
2 - 88988320 Connector Sen-MAP w/ leads
1 - 12602863 Sticker Premium Fuel
1 - 12626987 Label Cert
2 - 12626998 O-Ring T-MAP
2 - 55206797 Sensor T-MAP (Bosch Part # 0 281 002 845, supposed to be used on Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTD)
1 - (npn) GM Performance Decal (missing from my kit)
1 - 19212711 Instruction Sheet


You can purchase the parts of the kit with these part numbers, but the necessary software flash can only be installed through a dealership, so it will not do you any good. The instructions have an authorization code, and this code combined with your VIN is what is needed to install the powertrain software into your car.

There are several software calibration files, depending on whether your car is a Solstice/SKY or HHR, manual or automatic transmission, and whether your car has a brake vaccuum pump or OHB.

The kit is emissions legal in all 50 states.

How is it installed?
The TMAP (Temperature/Pressure) Sensor on the post-charge air cooler/pre-throttle blade tube, and the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) Sensor on the manifold are replaced by the same Bosch TMAP sensor above. These sensors are an off-the-shelf part, and prior to install require the O-ring to be replaced with a thicker O-ring.

Your old sensors are cut off, and the new sensors are installed using provided adaptor harnesses and shrink wrap.

Then, your car is flashed with the new software through an internet connection and a Tech 2. This calibration is released by the authorization code and your VIN, and can only be installed at a dealership or other authorized service center.


What's it do?
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Manual Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 340 lb-fts@3600 rpm
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Auto Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 325 lb-fts@3600 rpm

Yum.

I will post my observations in the next post. Keep in mind that the current production engine is 260 hp@5300 rpm \ 260 lb-fts@2500 to approx. 5250 rpm.
 
#13 ·
First of all, I had the following installed:

19212670 Performance Upgrade Kit for Solstice

Applicable: 2007, 2008, 2009 Solstice GXP/SKY RedLine

Retail Price: Still TBD as of 11/20/2008, expected to be less than $1000.

Installation labor: not included. Guideline is 1 hour installation.

Retail Availability:
2007-2008 Model Year estimated on or before 12/15/2008
2009 Model year estimated 2nd Quarter 2009, after introduction of 2009 2.0l turbo model in production (requires different calibration/software and certification after the production application has been sold)

Premium fuel is REQUIRED with this kit.

This performance upgrade enables no-lift shift feature.

What's in the box:
1 - 11589015 Bolt Tmap Sensor
2 - 88988320 Connector Sen-MAP w/ leads
1 - 12602863 Sticker Premium Fuel
1 - 12626987 Label Cert
2 - 12626998 O-Ring T-MAP
2 - 55206797 Sensor T-MAP (Bosch Part # 0 281 002 845, supposed to be used on Alfa Romeo 159 1.9 JTD)
1 - (npn) GM Performance Decal (missing from my kit)
1 - 19212711 Instruction Sheet


You can purchase the parts of the kit with these part numbers, but the necessary software flash can only be installed through a dealership, so it will not do you any good. The instructions have an authorization code, and this code combined with your VIN is what is needed to install the powertrain software into your car.

There are several software calibration files, depending on whether your car is a Solstice/SKY or HHR, manual or automatic transmission, and whether your car has a brake vaccuum pump or OHB.

The kit is emissions legal in all 50 states.

How is it installed?
The TMAP (Temperature/Pressure) Sensor on the post-charge air cooler/pre-throttle blade tube, and the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) Sensor on the manifold are replaced by the same Bosch TMAP sensor above. These sensors are an off-the-shelf part, and prior to install require the O-ring to be replaced with a thicker O-ring.

Your old sensors are cut off, and the new sensors are installed using provided adaptor harnesses and shrink wrap.

Then, your car is flashed with the new software through an internet connection and a Tech 2. This calibration is released by the authorization code and your VIN, and can only be installed at a dealership or other authorized service center.


What's it do?
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Manual Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 340 lb-fts@3600 rpm
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Auto Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 325 lb-fts@3600 rpm

Yum.

I will post my observations in the next post. Keep in mind that the current production engine is 260 hp@5300 rpm \ 260 lb-fts@2500 to approx. 5250 rpm.

I know what I'm getting for christmas! :cool:
 
#6 · (Edited)
REally? That doesnt seem right, thats what's factory! what would be the point of changing the map and t-map? The factory map sensor reads to 255kpa and the factory T-map is 3bar.

Most of us on this board are really only interested in the op system and the MAP sensors if it reads past the current 255kpa limit. Basically in the hopes that HPT or westers can hack into it so we can overwrite it for OUR needs. A good number of us are running much bigger turbo's and 7500rpm. A larger number have reflashed for 20-22psi and 7400rpm. At those levels we're making close to the GM #'s at the rear wheels and if your packing a bigger snail it's those numbers +100 at the wheels. Then only thing holding us back from truly impressive numbers is an expanded range op system and accompanying pressure sensors. We have been doing 100hp/hole for 20k miles. Motor is still tight and fresh. I think 150hp/hole is possible with some additional cooling.

If that's all the op system reads to I dont think the kit will sell very well for 1000 bucks. You can have a helluva lot more umph for much less money with just a flash.
 
#8 · (Edited)
REally? thats what's factory! what would be the point of changing the map and t-map? The factory map sensor reads to 255kpa and the factory T-map is 3bar.

Most of us on this board are really only interested in the op system and the MAP sensors if it reads past the current 255kpa limit. Basically in the hopes that HPT or westers can hack into it so we can overwrite it for OUR needs.

If that's all the op system reads to I dont think the kit will sell very well for 1000 bucks. You can have a helluva lot more umph for much less money with just a flash.
The sensor was a guess. You will have to find the bosch sensor specs (I provided the bosch sensor part number and last known production usage in my previous post) to know for sure. You are probably correct and it is higher.

Yes, you might be able to hack the software, I suppose. How's that 100,000 mile/5-year warranty work then?

I didn't say the kit would cost $1000, I said it is expected to be LESS than $1000. I can tell you that it is probably more than $2.00, so it is somewhere in between. brentil or I will pass on the info as soon as we know. What do you think the price of the performance upgrade kit should be?
 
#7 · (Edited)
Added torque is immediately noticeable. Around town driveability is very nice. I have not noticed any unusual surging.

I have not attempted any 1/4 mile runs on my car with the performance upgrade kit. My car stock does approximately 5.4 to 5.6 seconds 0-60, and approximately 13.9-14.0 seconds @ 100 mph stock. This is consistent with other test cars in stock configuration I have tested in the past. I forget what the official information is, but I know this is in the ballpark.

My runs in a test car with an earlier version of the performance upgrade kit, which was also used for validation of the kit, yielded approx. 0.5 seconds faster 0-60 and a little less faster for 1/4 mile, at a trap speed of approx. 103 mph. My 60 foot times are usually in the 2.2-2.5 second range. I do not think there is any official information on the actual performance of the performance upgrade kit, but I would be comfortable saying it is 4.9 seconds 0-60, 13.65 seconds 1/4 mile @ 103 mph.

It is also likely that I was not fully using the no-lift shift feature, so I suspect I might be able to squeeze another 0.1 seconds out of these times. The key to a good run in a manual car is a precise and smooth launch, which can be difficult to achieve.


I have noticed that it seems my car has now picked up some noticeable fuel economy. I average about 25.5 mpg around town, and about 32 mpg consistently on the highway stock. I usually get about 300 miles on a tank before the fuel light comes on with the stock engine. I always fuel with premium 92 or better octane.

Since the performance upgrade kit install, I am averaging 26.6 around town, and have seen highway mileage peak at 35 mpg for extended periods of time. Before I conclude that this is not my imagination, I need to burn through a few more tanks of fuel to confirm, but my first refuel on this kit was done at about 330 miles range and the DIC and actual mileage calculations generally agreed.

I asked one of the powertrain engineers about this, and he stated they observed this on the supercharger stage kits as well, and may be a real phenomenon. Some explanations that may account for this are optimized spark for premium fuel, which increases engine efficiency; the higher torque which may help you operate with a more closed throttle position and better efficiency point during road-load conditions, as well as a quicker time for the throttle to close when off the throttle; and ability to accelerate faster with the increased torque means more "off the accelerator" time during unaccelerated cruising.
 
#9 ·
Hey Flash's Owner,

Do you know if the Wastegate mod would cause problems with this kit installed?
 
#11 ·
Not sure what the wategate mod is. Can you explain? I know that if you modify the wastegate too far, it will set a code and the link is very difficult to reset. In fact, there is no procedure for doing so in service.

Furthermore, if you are doing this with your stock engine, and you successfully get a measured increase in boost, it is only temporary unless you are constantly unplugging your battery. The powertrain software will sense that it is overproducing boost, and learns the engine back down to stock torque each key cycle. In a handful of key cycles, you will no longer have any additional boost and be right back to stock torque.

Maybe I am not understanding the nature of the mod.
 
#10 ·
What's it do?
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Manual Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 340 lb-fts@3600 rpm
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Auto Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 325 lb-fts@3600 rpm

Yum.
I am assuming that the 2008 HHR SS manual torque of 340 ft# is same as 07/08
Solstice manual. Is that true??

Do you know if HHR SS clutch torque rating is as strong or same as Solstice clutch
since it is a fwd application.

Thanks for coming on forum and answering our questions. I have had both GXP and SS.
Both are great cars.

tf
 
#12 ·
What's it do?
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Manual Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 340 lb-fts@3600 rpm
2007 & 2008 Solstice/Sky Auto Trans: 290 HP@5200 rpm \ 325 lb-fts@3600 rpm

Yum.
I am assuming that the 2008 HHR SS manual torque of 340 ft# is same as 07/08
Solstice manual. Is that true??

Do you know if HHR SS clutch torque rating is as strong or same as Solstice clutch
since it is a fwd application.

Thanks for coming on forum and answering our questions. I have had both GXP and SS.
Both are great cars.

tf
Oops. I may have slipped. I am only generally familiar with the HHR SS, not intimately familiar with it, so I am uncomfortable guessing about it. Sorry.
 
#16 ·
Furthermore, if you are doing this with your stock engine, and you successfully get a measured increase in boost, it is only temporary unless you are constantly unplugging your battery. The powertrain software will sense that it is overproducing boost, and learns the engine back down to stock torque each key cycle. In a handful of key cycles, you will no longer have any additional boost and be right back to stock torque.

Maybe I am not understanding the nature of the mod.
The mod consists of readjusting the starting position of the wastegate lever by moving the 2 nuts in tandum to put more pressure on wastegate valve. You are correct that with
the oem software, it soon relearns and most of your boost increase is learned out BUT
what is not relearned is the big improvement in transient throttle response because
the wastegate does not open as quickly.

PS: Another question-What boost level max do u see on DIC with stage kit, 20-21????

tf
 
#18 ·
In cooler weather, I see normally 14 PSI near full throttle high RPM. This goes up a few psi in warmer weather.

With the Performance Upgrade in today's weather, I see 18PSI. I would estimate a gain of about 3 to 4 PSI. In the summer, I have seen as high as 21 PSI peaks in test vehicles.
 
#19 ·
Steve, welcome to the forum and any information you can provide (under the contrains you are subject to) are greatly appreciated. Glad to see you finally caved and got a kappa of your own to play with.

For those of you that don't know Steve has been involved in this platform since it's conception and is a wealth of information. Unfortunately he is not in a position to relay most of it :)
 
#21 · (Edited)
Steve, I also wanted to tell you how wonderful it is to have someone so deep in the program on board with us. I also want to stress that I *understand* and support you not releasing information that GM does not want out. But, there are SOOOO many ways that you could be a wonderful bridge between GM and the Solstice/Sky community. Like Scott Settlemire has been for the Camaro/Firebird community. There are a lot of things he can not share, but thru the years he HAS been able to work BOTH ways. He has taken info WE have discovered back to GM, and he has shared things with us too. It really helps strengthen the bonds....

Shoot, I love these cars so much, I'm on my second one!
 
#22 ·
But, there are SOOOO many ways that you could be a wonderful bridge between GM and the Solstice/Sky community.
Don't put that burden on Steve. Not to deride him, but he's just an Engineer working for GM. He's not (??) the Public Affairs Officer of some community outreach program.

Having said that... Steve, spill the beans on the Bosch part!!!!111111eleven :devil: :brentil:
 
#25 ·
Hello all!
Steve,

First the official ... Congrats and I know you are gonna enjoy the ride! :cool:

Second welcome to the non lurking side :D

Last, where are the pics? ... :lol:
 
#26 ·
I've been asking around the Tech Center and Milford trying to find out who's car had the kit... I should have guessed, but I didn't know Steve finally bought one! I knew it was an employee who was an owner, but that's all I had found out.

Anyway... Steve, I'm in town all this weekend, any chance of getting a ride? I'll actually be in / around Warren/Royal Oak/Troy/Macomb during Thanksgiving and the first few weeks of December as well. I'd be glad to offer up a review if at all possible. :)

Glad to see you are no longer just lurking!
 
#29 · (Edited)
Wow, lots of stuff to digest here.

Just Mike, I have a closeup picture of carbon flash metallic and a side shot of my car in the gallery.

I got one call from a friend through Bosch and confirmation from one of the powertrain engineers that the Bosch sensors are 3.0 bar sensors.

The powertrain engineer also mentioned the production sensors are 2.7 bar sensors, not 3 bar sensors as previously reported.

JeffinDFW: it takes significant time to validate and certify a new calibration for emissions in all 50 states, or so I have been told. The 2009 model year only started a few months ago. Just look how long it took to get the kit together for the 2007 and 2008 model year.

*revised* I have more info: By law for a 50 state emission certification for any after market modification, the process can not even start, which is the letter of application for certification, until the OEM package has completed certification and is in production. The process is handled by the California Air Resources Board and takes a lot of time.

Many of us in all areas of the Kappa development team have spent time on the forum in the past, and used some of the information gleaned from the forum for problem solving since the beginning. This is not the first time I have ever come to the forum and looked at and read through posts here, it is just the first time that there has been a clear policy from General Motors regarding forum participation and I have posted information in public.

I have also attended runs with the NEO/PA group early on, been to Baker's here in Milford with Flash, and attended the 1st National Meet in blazing hot K.C. and the 3rd one in Las Vegas. My wife and I were at the first Mecca Tour, and I attended the second Mecca Tour and got to meet many other people face-to-face that I had only communicated with through other means, so that was lots of fun.

High Performance Vehicle Operations, the group that is responsible for developing the Performance Upgrade, is aware that I was going to post this information, and we discussed what I can and what I cannot share. For the most part, this is more detailed than most other tuners will give you, and honestly I cannot think of anything that is a real secret. You know what the power and torque look like for the kit, I accidentally slipped and mentioned the HHR SS, and the cost has not yet been established but I am sure that you all will be among the first to know the Performance Upgrade kit cost as soon as it is established.

Regarding performance: I do not think we have run any cars on a chassis dyno. There is a reason for this. The prediction models, given the vehicle parameters and engine torque curve, are quite accurate. Our predictions of stock vehicle performance for both the 2.4l and the 2.0l t were less than 1% off of actual vehicle performance for 1/4 mile and 0-60. The change in performance for the Performance Upgrade was very accurate as well. In fact, it is very possible to get significant variation on a chassis dyno that may not translate properly to a drag strip, so one must treat dyno information with great care. I have expressed this following thought to people I have met where we have had great discussions and seen it repeated from time to time: what really matters for true performance is when the car is driven, not what a dyno says and not what it feels like. 30 dyno hp and 80 dyno ft-lbs do not do you any good if they do not shave off several tenths of a second on the drag strip.
 
#31 ·
I read his post to say stock is 2.7 and the new BOSCH are 3.0.

Welcome Steve. I have seen your name in print I think long before the Solstice concept was announced. Is that correct?

Please thank the team, and those above you from all of us for allowing you to post here.
 
#33 ·
Steve, first of all, a big THANK YOU to you, and the powers that be, for posting this info.

According to your models / calculations, is the torque curve still as broad and flat after the tune as it was before? As you point out, I care mostly about the performance on the street, not the dyno. Peak HP and torque values are only part of the story. I care more about the area "under the curve."
 
#34 ·
Powertrain does run certified tests on the engines to get the curves. I assume this is where the power/torque ratings come from.

Look at the stock torque plot, then plot the two new points. It looks like the engine continues up the curve on the low end to the 340 ft lb torque, then must roll off earlier to meet the necessary torque at the peak power point.

I think because of my membership level, I cannot attach anything, or I would try and do some sort of curve.
 
#36 ·
Some Q&A on skyroadster.com
290 hp gm ecm tune - confirmed - Saturn Sky Forum
What, if any effect would the GMPP CAI and GMPP cat-back exhaust have along with the tune we are SO patiently waiting for? Has any testing been done with them all installed?


I saw in the post there was in increase in mpg. Is that based on "normal" driving or a tendency for quick starts? Most of my driving with my Sky RL is combined averaging about 29-31 mpg at the last fill up.
I can see I will be having trouble keeping up with both forums, but be patient and I will do my best.


My increased mileage is based on normal driving. If you are always in the throttle, then you are putting more energy into the car, and you will burn more fuel. Even Scotty cannot change the laws of physics, and that was a science fiction TV show. LOL

Regarding what the GMPP Exhaust and other improvements, in general they should be quite effective.

Here's why:

The stock production calibration is a sophisticated torque-based control system. It is constantly looking at all of the inputs - air temperature and pressure, charge air cooler efficiency, estimating density of intake air, and where the settings are for all the systems relative to a spark map to ensure the engine is protected for knock and detonation. It also estimates turbine speed with some very accurate modeling for given output to protect the turbo unit from overstress.

The goal of all of this control is to provide very consistent 260 ft lb/260 hp for all cars. If you make a change to the system such as improving the exhaust efficiency, then the control system will relearn with each key cycle that it is overproducing torque, and will "learn down" the torque back to stock level. If you do a back-to-back change that a dynomometer shows a gain of 15 ft-lbs, in a handful of key cylcles, long after you have left your dyno shop, the engine will learn back down to 260 ft-lbs. If you encounter a situation, such as a very hot day or you use 87 octane fuel, which requires an immediate spark retard to protect the motor, the good news is that the engine will "learn up" back to stock torque. But only back up to stock torque.

That is how the production system works.

In simple terms, the Performance Upgrade Kit turns off the learn down portion. You still have all of the protection features for the engine, such asg spark knock protection, turbine overspeed, or if you play with the wastegate link (which will, incidentally, probably set a boost fault).


So, essentially the PUpgrade you can think of as limited by turbine speed to protect the turbo from overstress and failure. At max turbine speed, whatever you can do to increase torque will be effective at producing more torque and power at a given RPM. This boils down to getting more molecules of air into and out of the engine. You can improve intake system efficiency by trying to make it less restrictive, including all of the flow path from fresh air intack to the turbo compressor intake, through the compressor outlet, through the charge air cooler (which also can be improved both through flow efficiency and cooling efficiency), into the intake manifold and through the cylinder head port and even intake valve openings. The easiest place to start is the air cleaner/intake pipes up to the turbo, BUT you must be careful when you start changing these things, as it is easy to create small areas of turbulence in the intake system which cause erratic readings on the MAP and MAF sensors and will set intake rationality codes.

The same thing applies to the exhaust side, from the exhaust valves. Legally, the catalytic converter must stay in place for the compliance to be legally valid. Improvements and lower restrictive exhaust in the cat-back section, such as what is available through GM Performance Parts should also be effective.

With the PUpgrade, these gains will not "learn out" like they do in the production calibration.

(Many thanks to the HPVO and Powertrain engineer brains for helping me understand and explain this info)
 
#41 ·
So, is the "learn down" removed entirely? Or, is the "learn down" reset to where it works to keep the car at 290hp?
 
#47 ·
The way I have understood it unless I misunderstood what powertrain has told me is that there is no "learn down" to a specific torque level. The only way the calibration makes adjustments is to protect the turbo or engine, but will relearn back to the optimized settings.

If that optimized setting gives you 290 crank hp, then that is what you get after it relearns back up from a protection change. If that optimized setting, due to improvements in efficiency, have netted you 304 hp at the crank, then that is what you get when it relearns back up from a protection change.


I hope that is clear.


It is 290 hp @ crank, not rwhp.
 
#42 ·
welcome steve! :)


thanks for all the info!

I bet the supporting vendors/tuners.....are glad that you are here! more powah!!! we need more powah!!!!!!!!!!!!:devil:
 
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