GM Stage II Kit review - Page 3 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DEJON-Dave View Post
So you don't know for sure whether these are 2.7 or 3.0 bar sensors? I hope they are 3.0's as only .2bar above stock hardly seems worth the upgrade.
I read his post to say stock is 2.7 and the new BOSCH are 3.0.

Welcome Steve. I have seen your name in print I think long before the Solstice concept was announced. Is that correct?

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Old 11-21-2008, 07:13 AM
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Thanks for the clarification on the parts specifications Steve!









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Old 11-21-2008, 07:38 AM
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Steve, first of all, a big THANK YOU to you, and the powers that be, for posting this info.

According to your models / calculations, is the torque curve still as broad and flat after the tune as it was before? As you point out, I care mostly about the performance on the street, not the dyno. Peak HP and torque values are only part of the story. I care more about the area "under the curve."

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Old 11-21-2008, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 2KWK4U View Post
Steve, first of all, a big THANK YOU to you, and the powers that be, for posting this info.

According to your models / calculations, is the torque curve still as broad and flat after the tune as it was before? As you point out, I care mostly about the performance on the street, not the dyno. Peak HP and torque values are only part of the story. I care more about the area "under the curve."
Powertrain does run certified tests on the engines to get the curves. I assume this is where the power/torque ratings come from.

Look at the stock torque plot, then plot the two new points. It looks like the engine continues up the curve on the low end to the 340 ft lb torque, then must roll off earlier to meet the necessary torque at the peak power point.

I think because of my membership level, I cannot attach anything, or I would try and do some sort of curve.
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:34 AM
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I think because of my membership level, I cannot attach anything, or I would try and do some sort of curve.
I'm sure if you forwarded something on to MomsSol, she would be more than willing to attach it here in this thread.

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Old 11-21-2008, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Some Q&A on skyroadster.com
290 hp gm ecm tune - confirmed - Saturn Sky Forum
Quote:
What, if any effect would the GMPP CAI and GMPP cat-back exhaust have along with the tune we are SO patiently waiting for? Has any testing been done with them all installed?


I saw in the post there was in increase in mpg. Is that based on "normal" driving or a tendency for quick starts? Most of my driving with my Sky RL is combined averaging about 29-31 mpg at the last fill up.
I can see I will be having trouble keeping up with both forums, but be patient and I will do my best.


My increased mileage is based on normal driving. If you are always in the throttle, then you are putting more energy into the car, and you will burn more fuel. Even Scotty cannot change the laws of physics, and that was a science fiction TV show. LOL

Regarding what the GMPP Exhaust and other improvements, in general they should be quite effective.

Here's why:

The stock production calibration is a sophisticated torque-based control system. It is constantly looking at all of the inputs - air temperature and pressure, charge air cooler efficiency, estimating density of intake air, and where the settings are for all the systems relative to a spark map to ensure the engine is protected for knock and detonation. It also estimates turbine speed with some very accurate modeling for given output to protect the turbo unit from overstress.

The goal of all of this control is to provide very consistent 260 ft lb/260 hp for all cars. If you make a change to the system such as improving the exhaust efficiency, then the control system will relearn with each key cycle that it is overproducing torque, and will "learn down" the torque back to stock level. If you do a back-to-back change that a dynomometer shows a gain of 15 ft-lbs, in a handful of key cylcles, long after you have left your dyno shop, the engine will learn back down to 260 ft-lbs. If you encounter a situation, such as a very hot day or you use 87 octane fuel, which requires an immediate spark retard to protect the motor, the good news is that the engine will "learn up" back to stock torque. But only back up to stock torque.

That is how the production system works.

In simple terms, the Performance Upgrade Kit turns off the learn down portion. You still have all of the protection features for the engine, such asg spark knock protection, turbine overspeed, or if you play with the wastegate link (which will, incidentally, probably set a boost fault).


So, essentially the PUpgrade you can think of as limited by turbine speed to protect the turbo from overstress and failure. At max turbine speed, whatever you can do to increase torque will be effective at producing more torque and power at a given RPM. This boils down to getting more molecules of air into and out of the engine. You can improve intake system efficiency by trying to make it less restrictive, including all of the flow path from fresh air intack to the turbo compressor intake, through the compressor outlet, through the charge air cooler (which also can be improved both through flow efficiency and cooling efficiency), into the intake manifold and through the cylinder head port and even intake valve openings. The easiest place to start is the air cleaner/intake pipes up to the turbo, BUT you must be careful when you start changing these things, as it is easy to create small areas of turbulence in the intake system which cause erratic readings on the MAP and MAF sensors and will set intake rationality codes.

The same thing applies to the exhaust side, from the exhaust valves. Legally, the catalytic converter must stay in place for the compliance to be legally valid. Improvements and lower restrictive exhaust in the cat-back section, such as what is available through GM Performance Parts should also be effective.

With the PUpgrade, these gains will not "learn out" like they do in the production calibration.

(Many thanks to the HPVO and Powertrain engineer brains for helping me understand and explain this info)
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:17 AM
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MMMmmm tasty, no "learn down." I like, I like.









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Old 11-21-2008, 12:57 PM
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MMMmmm tasty, no "learn down." I like, I like.
hey brentil, I am hoping you split this thread and give it a sticky, this is new information.

it'd also be nice if you could upgrade steve's membership so he can post pics and attachments
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:41 PM
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hey brentil, I am hoping you split this thread and give it a sticky, this is new information.

it'd also be nice if you could upgrade steve's membership so he can post pics and attachments
Well that would make sense now wouldn't it...









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Old 11-21-2008, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Flash's Owner View Post
What's in the box:
1 - (npn) GM Performance Decal (missing from my kit)
Steve,

You know you lost a lot of HP from this missing part, right? ...

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Old 11-21-2008, 04:23 PM
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So, is the "learn down" removed entirely? Or, is the "learn down" reset to where it works to keep the car at 290hp?

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Old 11-21-2008, 05:11 PM
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welcome steve!


thanks for all the info!

I bet the supporting vendors/tuners.....are glad that you are here! more powah!!! we need more powah!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 11-21-2008, 06:21 PM
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A video of you beating on your car would be nice
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:41 PM
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Perhaps I overlooked this...but is that 290whp? Thanks Steve for sharing with us as much of your knowledge as you can. Have a great weekend!
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Old 11-21-2008, 07:43 PM
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Speaking of videos relating to people beating on cars....Nevermind...I will start a new thread.
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