How do I get to 400-450whp for minimal cost? - Page 3 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by wspohn View Post
Yeah - a dead stock one which you can the plug in and blow all over again....
I just put one of these $1,900 engines in my car after burning a hole through my piston.

$1,900 ATK LDK engine (sand cast block as opposed to foam cast of the LNF, the LDK also has SLIGHTLY higher compression, this engine also came with Opel injectors, new intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and turbo.

$399 - HP tuner and 2 credits

$375 PAW Tune from Dave

$525 PAW intercooler (its possible that i blew metal into the factory intercooler.

$100 in my first 3 oil changes

$20 in new antifreeze

Man hours (its really not that hard)

I was considering the $4k DDM engine but knowing that their LNF foam cast blocks scared me, also I would of had to ship them my old block as a core, also I would have needed to buy new injectors and maybe a turbo. That $4k just got way more expensive.
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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LatinVenom View Post
Other than the turbo my GXP is all OEM from GM.
What kind of HP are you making?

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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 08:16 PM
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So apparently I posted something on the wrong kappa forum....LOL. Since I'm having an issue right now and the Kappa boards really don't have "tuners" I've had to fend for myself on other boards that use the LNF...mainly the Cobalt and ATS forums.... In doing so I've come across a formula for making 600+hp. It includes:

- building the motor (rods, pistons and bigger lobed camshaft for HPFP) ~ $1500
- Opel high flow HPFP ~$499
- Special ZZP spring for HPFP ~$---
- Opel high flow injectors ~$500
- E85 tune ~$500

Supposedly the above combination will give over 600HP with everything else stock.....and it's reliable from what I've read. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 09:43 PM
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You asked your question and got several answere. Personally I would rather sit on a grenade with the pin pulled than drive a street Solstice at 450 he.

I vote for you doing the upgrade. Take lots of pictures. And videos. Share them with us please
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by The_Ghost View Post
So apparently I posted something on the wrong kappa forum....LOL. Since I'm having an issue right now and the Kappa boards really don't have "tuners" I've had to fend for myself on other boards that use the LNF...mainly the Cobalt and ATS forums.... In doing so I've come across a formula for making 600+hp. It includes:

- building the motor (rods, pistons and bigger lobed camshaft for HPFP) ~ $1500
- Opel high flow HPFP ~$499
- Special ZZP spring for HPFP ~$---
- Opel high flow injectors ~$500
- E85 tune ~$500

Supposedly the above combination will give over 600HP with everything else stock.....and it's reliable from what I've read. I'll have to see if I can find it again.
I agree with what you found.

I think if I were to build a beast motor thats reliable I'd start with an ATK engine for $1,900 shipped. Comes with the opel injectors and hpfp and is the newer gen 3 block. I'd sell the factory k04 turbo that it comes with and replace it with something stronger. JNR sells the bigger lobed fuel cam for $170 shipped. I spoke with a ZZP tech on the phone and he claims that their aftermarket aggressive profile cams dont offer that much more hp than the factory cam, I dont know on this one but if thats true then I probably wouldnt even go that route and just be happy with the JNR cam. That just leaves rods, pistons springs/retainers, methanol kit and a tune, assuming that you already have a good intercooler and exhaust.

Now that I have a LDK block, this will be my plan the next time i need to pull the engine.
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 11:58 AM
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So add connecting rods - $1200 plus pistons - $600 to the $2K engine and a new turbo kit for $4100 (ZZP) and what does that come to...?

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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 12:24 PM
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So add connecting rods - $1200 plus pistons - $600 to the $2K engine and a new turbo kit for $4100 (ZZP) and what does that come to...?
That $8k range adds up to "maybe I should look into a LS swap".
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Saveaux View Post
That $8k range adds up to "maybe I should look into a LS swap".
If you have to have more than, say, 450 bhp or so, that would probably be a better option.
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Well, my plan was to push this motor as far as possible and stay somewhat reliable and once I kill this motor......2jz swap. Money is not a major issue but I didn't want to dump a whole hell of a lot of money on this engine when my end goal is a swap anyway.

Once I am done figuring out what all has been damaged from the car sitting for about a year, I'll start the upgrade process. Car is already tuned apparently, and it was pushing at least 23 PSI as it was maxing the gauges. I gotta figure out where it is so I can know where to go. Car is currently sitting with a broken balancing system (Water pump is not turning).

I will probably install charge pipes, intercooler, and CAI, and maybe the WERKS radiator (Anyone have this and care to share experience?) while that part of the car is apart since I have to remove it all anyway. The stock airbox is missing it's bolts and has a broken mounting tab, otherwise i would skip the CAI.

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Last edited by laser411; 09-02-2019 at 08:10 AM.
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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I would skip the intercooler on a stock turbo. I did mine prior to the EFR and it didn't have much effect on anything. Meth injection is way more effective at cooling charge temps.

On a side note, what is required to get all of the factory equipment (dash gauges, cruise control, AC etc.) working properly on an engine swap? Are there off the shelf solutions for any of this?
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinVenom View Post
If I am not mistaken the piston on our LNF are rated by GM performance to 400BHP period, so I do not care what Dave has publish but our LNF will not survive those kind of power with OEM internals.
Do what you want, but that statement is incorrect and Dave at DDM should know better.
Changed the description on the site a little -

"We have ran the stock LNF 2.0L engine found in the 2007-2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP and 2007-2010 Saturn Sky Redline up to 450hp at the wheels, although we highly recommend looking at building the engine when power gets over 400hp at the wheels for reliability."

We have ran several stock LNF engine up into the low/mid 400's with big turbos that have big exhaust A/R's and have not seen many problems here under 400hp at the wheels. We have had people call us that have blown engines on stock turbos with just a "tune" they did themselves or another company did for them. The bigger issue we see for engine longevity is the tune, not necessarily the power the engine is making to a degree. So many guys seem to want to get just that little bit more out of it and end up going a little too far. The pistons will take a lot of abuse, but you have to control the heat they are seeing. If you are pushing high boost pressures/cylinder temperatures and not allowing that heat to get out, the upper ring land will crack, break and cause an engine failure. Really, there is no magical safe power limit on these engines, you could put a poor flash in the ECM and blow it up with stock power levels, or put a big turbo on and be conservative with the fueling, timing and cams, get the exhaust to breathe really well and make it survive over 400hp at the wheels. When you get to that level though, you must be monitoring the engine. The tuning is the most important thing on those higher horsepower setups for engine survival.

So, can the stock LNF engine will take 400hp at the wheels? If that engine has a nice clean tune in it, runs good quality gas, has good quality components in it driven on the street, sure. I would not run that kind of setup on heavy track days though where the heat load on the engine will be much higher for longer periods of time. Can the engine be destroyed with a stock turbo and bad tune at 250hp at the wheels, sure also.

Hope that helps,
Dave
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 03:27 PM
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Dave.
Quote:
has good quality components in it
So with your statement above it is no longer a factory LNF OEM 2.0.
Dave you tune my 2007 large wheel turbo a few years back and maybe your thinking has change, but at the time you said to be on the safe side and going between 25-27 psi 350/350 BHP (not at the wheels) was your advise.

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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinVenom View Post
Dave.
So with your statement above it is no longer a factory LNF OEM 2.0.
Dave you tune my 2007 large wheel turbo a few years back and maybe your thinking has change, but at the time you said to be on the safe side and going between 25-27 psi 350/350 BHP (not at the wheels) was your advise.
25-27psi is completely different power levels depending on the turbo/supercharger setup. With a EFR 7163 we are getting right around 500hp at 23-24psi of boost as an example. When you are measuring boost, think of it as a measurement of the restriction of flow through the engine. If you have a very open exhaust setup, the boost pressure will be lower for the same power. The higher the boost pressure, typically the more heat and pressure is retained in the engine, which leads to detonation and piston damage typically. So for your setup, which has basically the stock exhaust section of the K04, that is all I would push from that setup. If you have an EFR 7163, or some other larger turbo with lower exhaust backpressure, you can run more power.

Hope that helps,
Dave

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