Tuning - misfires at high(ish) boost - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Tuning - misfires at high(ish) boost

I installed a new tune on the GXP, and am experiencing pretty severe misfires at 20+psi. The tune aims for 24psi. (I'm at 500ft above sea level, FWIW.) It's bad enough that the engine starts to lope - cylinder deactivation, I'm sure, as it clears up ~30 seconds later - and I get the lovely flashing (misfire-induced) flashing CEL. The CEL goes away shortly thereafter, BUT scanning the ECM reveals P0300 (multiple random misfire) and some P0301/2/3/4, which moves between cylinders. I've never seen all four P030* codes; typically just one or two cylinders.

The tune came from a reputable vendor, but I'd rather not mention whom as I'm reasonably confident that this is an issue with my car, not with the tune per se, and I'd rather not hurt their business.

I've swapped the coils from the blue car, replaced spark plugs - they needed it - checked for vacuum leaks as well as I can without the assistance of a hair band roadie and their equipment.

If I keep my foot out of it and stay below ~15psi, everything is fine.

With the GMPP tune vs this new one, I hit 14 PSI very quickly, but it doesn't try and go higher than that, and it works well (as in, no misfires).

I went ahead and did a compression test, just for fun and grins, and got a respectable 165/158/164/165. The slight drop on #2 is a little odd, but well within spec.

(Yes, I know that driving with a severe misfire condition is a Very Bad Thing. I went back to the GMPP tune for the time being.)

Any suggestions on a diagnostic approach?

Some more data:

* I also recently installed DDM's charge pipes and CAI (it's nice to be able to hear the turbo now), and PWerk's intercooler. Aside from that and the GMPP MAP sensors, the car is stock other than the tune(s) and brakes / suspension bits.
* While installing the pipes, one of my charge pipe brackets (driver's side) went missing. I haven't got around to making another one. I can't imagine how this could possibly be relevant.
* This is on an '07 with just over 100k miles on it. The battery is from 12/2014, and appears to be in great shape.
* I replaced the HPFP a month or two ago due to a hard start condition, which instantly disappeared after replacing the pump.
* My windshield is still cracked following a rock encounter at Black Hawk this year.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces

Last edited by raygun; 01-01-2019 at 04:51 PM.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 05:28 PM
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Good question, but yes. 93 octane, same stuff I run in the (boosted) 06 without issue.


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Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-01-2019, 10:27 PM
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I don't know if it's possible to go back to stock, if you can that's the first thing I would do, if not start from the easiest spark plugs, coil packs, gas, carbon intake build up.

If you have Hptuners I can send you my tune file, I also live in texas, so weather and elevation shouldn't affect much and also I had the same mods on my previous solstice or you can send me yours and I can try it
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 04:30 AM
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Did you check for carbon buildup on the intake? Could be disrupting the flow and causing problems

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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 05:20 AM
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Did I read correctly that your GMPP tune would not go above 14 psi at all, and that the new tune starts having problems above 15 psi?

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 05:39 AM
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At sea level 15 is I believe a good number for a stock car.

https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...le-vid-108817/

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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 05:51 AM
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A reminder
#PIP5029: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves - (May 29, 2012) Subject: Engine Misfires Due To Major Carbon Deposits On The Intake And/Or Exhaust Valves Models: 2008 - 2012 Cadillac CTS, STS 2008 - 2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS, HHR SS 2007 - 2010 Pontiac Solstice GXP 2007 - 2010 Saturn Sky Redline 2009 - 2012 Buick Enclave 2009 - 2012 Buick Lacrosse 2009 - 2012 Chevrolet Traverse 2009 - 2012 GMC Acadia 2009 Saturn Outlook 2010 - 2012 Cadillac SRX 2010 - 2012 Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox 2010 - 2012 GMC Terrain With any of the Following Direct Injected Gasoline Engines: 2.0 (RPO LNF) 2.4L (RPO LAF, LEA, or LUK) 2.8L (RPO LAU) 3.0L (RPO LF1) 3.6L (RPO LFX or LLT) The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI. Condition/Concern:

Customer may complain of a MIL and engine misfire. In some cases, the misfire may be more apparent on a cold start, may count on a single cylinder or several cylinders, and may or may not be felt by the driver. Upon inspection, the technician will find one or more misfire codes (DTC P0300-P0306) stored in the ECM and SI diagnosis may or may not isolate the cause of the misfire depending on whether the intake/exhaust valves are sticking at the time of the diagnosis. This may be the result of major carbon build up on the intake and/or exhaust valves as shown below so the misfires should not have appeared until the engine has accumulated around 5,000 miles or more. Recommendation/Instructions: If this concern is encountered, perform SI diagnosis. If SI diagnosis isolates a valve sealing concern and/or eliminates everything else external to the engine, decarbon the engine with Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner by following the guidelines below: Important Extreme care must be taken not to hydrolock the engine when inducing the cleaner, especially if it is induced without Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A. If too much cleaner is induced at too low of a RPM, or if you force the engine to stall by inducing too much cleaner at once, the engine may hydrolock and bend a connecting rod(s).

1. In a well-ventilated area with the engine at operating temperature, slowly/carefully induce a bottle of GM Upper Engine and Fuel Injection Cleaner into the engine with RPM off of idle enough to prevent it from stalling (typically around 2,000 RPM or so). Depending on the engine configuration, induce the cleaner through the throttle body or an engine vacuum hose/pipe. For best results, it is suggested to induce the cleaner with Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A (shown below).

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 05:52 AM
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2. Turn the engine off after inducing the cleaner and allow the cleaner to soak with the engine off for 2.5 to 3 hours (Do not let cleaner soak for more than 3 hours as remaining deposits may start to harden back up again).
3. Add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus to the fuel tank and fill the vehicle with one of the Top Tier gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada). See Bulletin 05-00-89-078 for more details on GM Fuel System Treatment Plus.
4. Test drive the vehicle extensively to circulate the GM Fuel System Treatment Plus, which will help to eliminate/reduce any remaining intake valve deposits.
5. Re-evaluate the concern to determine if it is repaired or improved at all. If the concern is improved but not repaired, it may be necessaryto perform the above decarboning process a 2nd time.
6. To complete the repairs, advise the customer to only use one of the Top Tier Gasolines listed at http://www.toptiergas.com and/or in the latest version of 04-06-04-047 (USA) or 05-06-04-022 (Canada) to minimize future deposits. It can also be recommended to add a bottle of GM Fuel System Treatment Plus at every oil change as mentioned in the latest version of 04-06-04-051.
Kent Moore Tool # J-35800-A
Upper Engine and Fuel Injector Cleaner Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information. WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION 2012 General Motors. All rights reserved.

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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 06:00 AM
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Here is the subject cleaner
https://smile.amazon.com/Genuine-GM-...ection+Cleaner

I think for the good of the group you ought to give this a try. Take pictures before and after so we can know how well it works. :-)

Seriously. What can it hurt?
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob the elder View Post
At sea level 15 is I believe a good number for a stock car.

https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/...le-vid-108817/
I did not think that the GMPP tune was classified as "stock", or that it was limited to 15 psi. If it is, why would installing it require 2 bar MAP sensors?

raygun:
Quote:
With the GMPP tune vs this new one, I hit 14 PSI very quickly, but it doesn't try and go higher than that, and it works well (as in, no misfires).

John
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
I did not think that the GMPP tune was classified as "stock", or that it was limited to 15 psi. If it is, why would installing it require 2 bar MAP sensors?

raygun:
What? I was not referencing a tuned car. I stated "stock" which is as it came from the factory.

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob the elder View Post
What? I was not referencing a tuned car. I stated "stock" which is as it came from the factory.
I understand that, but in his first post, raygun stated:
Quote:
With the GMPP tune vs this new one, I hit 14 PSI very quickly, but it doesn't try and go higher than that, and it works well (as in, no misfires).
That statement caused my confusion, since I assume that a GMPP tuned car should go over 15 psi.

Am I missing something?

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 07:40 AM
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Anyone tried this?

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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-02-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWR View Post
I did not think that the GMPP tune was classified as "stock", or that it was limited to 15 psi. If it is, why would installing it require 2 bar MAP sensors?

raygun:
John, I believe that the only reason GM installed the new sensors with their GMPP tune was that they had guidelines set for the amount of headroom their sensors should have over the anticipated boost pressures. Lots of aftermarket tunes run stock sensors without problems using boosts as high or higher than the GMPP does.

GMPP wasn't specifically limited to any particular boost pressure - we've seen a range of pressures depending on things like altitude.

I have seen statements that the GMPP sensors were "to comply with emissions diagnostic requirements to get 50 state emissions approval." I have no idea if that was the reason behind it.

For the OP, you might want to play around a bit with spark plug gap - that can cause the sort of thing you are experiencing.

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