Aisin 5-speed Manual rebuilder or upgrades? - Pontiac Solstice Forum
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-11-2017, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
cammerjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Belleville MI
Posts: 325
Garage
Aisin 5-speed Manual rebuilder or upgrades?

My issue is I believe the Synchro's are giving up on my stock Aisin AR-5 Transmission. My Car is a LS2 powered Mallet Conversion early 2006 Build (November 2005) so from what I have been reading it will have the early Synchro design. My problem is the car is Stock as it came from Mallet and I would like to keep it that way, so I don't want to replace the transmission, but just rebuild it with more durable parts.

Does anyone know of a rebuilder with experience with these transmissions? I am aware of the more durable carbon fiber synchro option that was used in the Hummer H3 version of the trans.

The car has about 23,000 miles on it, and the 2-3 shift is getting difficult unless I double clutch it, but that does not help acceleration. I did drain and replace the fluid with Royal Purple 70/90 full synthetic about a month ago. It has helped but not eliminated the problem.

I believe the Trans was having issues when I bought it, as the car would "jump" a little when you came to a complete stop, then placed the shifter into 1st gear. Now the other symtoms have arose.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
cammerjeff is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-11-2017, 01:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 5,577
Are you certain that you don't have a clutch problem? A jump going into first gear sounds like a partially engaged clutch, since something has to be turning to cause the jump. I have also noticed that shifts are a problem when I don't fully depress the clutch, and that would translate to your 2-3 problem.
Steelmesh likes this.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-11-2017, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
cammerjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Belleville MI
Posts: 325
Garage
I have thought of that, but in the past if I had a clutch issue it would be in every gear change, there is no burned clutch smell that usually goes along with a clutch not disengaging fully. Also Double clutching never effected the shifting when it was a clutch issue in the past.

But this is my 1st Kappa so they may be different than the other cars I have owned.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
cammerjeff is offline  
post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 08:50 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 74
Your description suggests a hydraulic problem. Rebleed the clutch and look for leaks or weeps. Inspect the MC. It may be letting go with the pedal depressed. The slave is not accessible until the engine or trans come out. In my Ls/Tremec conversion there is no access to most of the bell housing bolts; and a forward sliding pull of the engine trans package is necessary to expose them. I hope your Mallet swap allows you easier access.

Last edited by JMartz; 09-12-2017 at 08:51 AM. Reason: typo
JMartz is offline  
post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 09:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 5,577
The jump when engaging first at a stop is almost certainly caused by incomplete disengagement of the clutch, although it could be a galled pilot bushing. There is no way a synchro can create motion when the car isn't moving.

Unless you are losing fluid a hydraulic problem is most likely either the master cylinder or the clutch pedal return spring. A leaking master cylinder will normally allow the clutch to slowly engage while you hold the pedal down, but that is not absolute. A weak or broken pedal return spring will prevent a full charge of fluid in the master cylinder, resulting in incomplete release of the clutch. This recently happened to my RL.

The stock hydraulic system is self-bleeding, with no provision that I know of for any manual bleeding.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
cammerjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Belleville MI
Posts: 325
Garage
I will inspect the return spring when I get a chance, I may be over describing the "jump" it is more a feel in the shifter and the car does roll slightly when the shifter engages 1st gear. I have never had a manual trans car do that before, and I have been driving them for 30+ years.

I am not ruling out a clutch engagement issue. Just for complete info I did have all the fluids replaced this spring by my favorate ex Pontiac dealer and it did not effect the issue, it has grown gradually worse, and seems to be worse before the trans gets up to operating temp.

I have not seen a loss of Fluid to the brake system so I don't think there is a leak, I have not noticed the clutch slowly engaging with the pedal held down.

But I will check the return spring as soon as I can.

Thanks for the tips.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
cammerjeff is offline  
post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 11:16 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 74
The pedal is returned by the pressure plate diaphragm spring via the oil in the system. The pedal does not have a spring to pull it back.
JMartz is offline  
post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 11:36 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 5,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMartz View Post
The pedal is returned by the pressure plate diaphragm spring via the oil in the system. The pedal does not have a spring to pull it back.
Mine does. The 2.4 has one, the RL has that one plus another of a different style.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 03:34 PM
EDT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Covington, LA
Posts: 24
I just want to say that my car exhibits a slight roll forward when put into gear as well. I've always attributed it to the gears meshing and causing just a tiny bit of forward propulsion. It also just so happens that my synchros are nearly dead, so I await an answer to the initial question.
EDT is offline  
post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-12-2017, 04:59 PM
Member
 
ChopTop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hooterville, MI
Posts: 6,740
Are you sure the clutch isn't dragging? Do you hear any grinding noises while shifting?

.
.
.
.
.
Mr & Mrs ChopTop's 09 Fastback & 06 Vert Mods thread:https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...session-75468/ Original join date; Oct 2005 under LowLife handle.
ChopTop is offline  
post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-13-2017, 10:10 PM
EDT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Covington, LA
Posts: 24
No clutch dragging or gears grinding here, just an occasional slight roll forward when going from neutral to first without the brake applied and the telltale feel of worn synchros. It has done the same with the stock clutch and a new SPEC Stage 3+.
EDT is offline  
post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 05:06 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
cammerjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Belleville MI
Posts: 325
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDT View Post
No clutch dragging or gears grinding here, just an occasional slight roll forward when going from neutral to first without the brake applied and the telltale feel of worn synchros. It has done the same with the stock clutch and a new SPEC Stage 3+.
I believe we have the same symptoms, but if I get a chance Friday I will take the car to my buddies trans shop and get his opinion of what the issue is, he should at least be able to rule out a clutch disengagement issue. He has never worked on a Kappa of the Aisin transmissions so I don't know how much help he will be about internal trans issues. He mostly deals with newer automatic's & building T350 & T400's for drag racing and Higher HP street use.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
cammerjeff is offline  
post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 07:41 AM
Member
 
ChopTop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hooterville, MI
Posts: 6,740
FWIW I ran across this yesterday, $300, posted five days ago: https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/a...299295794.html (pics)
Part number; 10219012

Sellers comments: 5 speed Manual Transmission with less than 1k miles on it. Fits Pontiac Solstice / Saturn Sky all model years with manual transmission. Comes with Concentric Slave Cylinder attached. Lindstrom, MN

.
.
.
.
.
Mr & Mrs ChopTop's 09 Fastback & 06 Vert Mods thread:https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...session-75468/ Original join date; Oct 2005 under LowLife handle.
ChopTop is offline  
post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 10:12 AM
Member
 
wspohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Vancouver BC
Posts: 6,439
Garage
Find a nice flat concrete pad that is as close to level as you can get (gas station filling areas are good). put it in gear with the clutch pushed in all the way - if it pulls forward at all you have clutch drag.

EDT, it doesn't matter what the gears are doing, without some clutch involvement it can't result in any motion to the car.

If it does move, then insufficient clutch travel is usually from hydraulic adjustment, air in the system etc. Or it may be in some failure mode.

This is why I hate cars with HTOBs. Instead of a 15 minute external slave change it means the engine coming out.....

I get into that argument all the time with the MG engine swapping guys. They usually use HTOBs as a matter of course and I tell them that every single component of a car WILL fail at some time or other, and it is just good planning to choose a fitment that minimizes the effort when, not if, that happens.

Sometimes you don't have much option; I haven't examined the tunnel area of a Kappa to see if there is room for an external slave.

Even when the HTOBs don't fail, they can be a real swine to bleed!
rob the elder likes this.

Current fleet:
1957 Jamaican bodied MGA
1958 MGA Twin Cam (race car)
1962 MGA Deluxe Coupe
1971 Jensen Interceptor
2009 Pontiac Solstice GXP Coupe
2007 BMW Z4M coupe
Recently departed: 1965 Jensen CV8, 1969 Lamborghini Islero S, 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT, 1969 MGC roadster
Mods at https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...thread-102178/

Bill in BC
wspohn is offline  
post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-14-2017, 12:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 5,577
Agreed with all points.

There is no provision for bleeding the clutch hydraulics. The system is self-bleeding after (in my case after replacing master cylinder) five or six full pedal strokes.

John
Lexington, KY
Sky NA 2007 Midnight Blue
Sky RL 2008 Carbon Flash - Naked
JohnWR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac Solstice Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome