Aisin 5-speed Manual rebuilder or upgrades? - Page 2 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 05:12 AM Thread Starter
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Well I did take the car to my buddies shop, and another that he recommended and their opinion is that I do have a syncro issue, they both concluded that the clutch is fully disengaging and that the issue I have is internal to the transmission. But both shops do not have any special tools required ( if any ) and have never rebuilt one so they did not want to take on the job of rebuilding it.

So I guess I am back to my original question, does anyone have a suggestion on where I should send the trans for a rebuild/upgrade?

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1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
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1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
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2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by cammerjeff View Post
Well I did take the car to my buddies shop, and another that he recommended and their opinion is that I do have a syncro issue, they both concluded that the clutch is fully disengaging and that the issue I have is internal to the transmission. But both shops do not have any special tools required ( if any ) and have never rebuilt one so they did not want to take on the job of rebuilding it.

So I guess I am back to my original question, does anyone have a suggestion on where I should send the trans for a rebuild/upgrade?
Have you tried a local shop that specializes in transmissions? You are talking about a synchro replacement, not rocket science. Any transmission shop worth half its salt should have no problems doing it, especially since its a common truck trans, based on another popular transsmisson. I did a quick google search of "transmission shop" and your town listed in your profile. I would give "Accurate Transmissions" a call. In the google reviews they look good, and several people have commented they have done transmissions on their race cars. Couldnt hurt to call, and tell em whats up and see what they have to say. Plus you will be supporting a local small shop, and thats always a plus!
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Unfortunatly that is my buddies Transmission Shop, Sorry if I did not make that clear in my last post.

Unfortunatly he usually works on Automatic's and older Muncie or BW manual transmissions, He even does T-56's but aparantly he is not up for learning a not very common (in our area anyway) manual trans. I would be interested to know how many Colorado, Cannon, or H3's were actually built with the 5-speed manual. The other issue he has is my car has a LS2 V8 and he said he is leary to do it and have the same issue occur in a few thousand miles,

But thanks for the response, and the time it took to look the info up.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 01:20 PM
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Unfortunatly that is my buddies Transmission Shop, Sorry if I did not make that clear in my last post.

Unfortunatly he usually works on Automatic's and older Muncie or BW manual transmissions, He even does T-56's but aparantly he is not up for learning a not very common (in our area anyway) manual trans. I would be interested to know how many Colorado, Cannon, or H3's were actually built with the 5-speed manual. The other issue he has is my car has a LS2 V8 and he said he is leary to do it and have the same issue occur in a few thousand miles,

But thanks for the response, and the time it took to look the info up.
Okay so in that case, maybe I would check the supra forums and see who mk3 (not mk4) supra guys go to for trans rebuilds, I know it seems strange to ask another car specific forum for info, but the it couldnt hurt to try.
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 02:38 PM
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Like honestly, Ive thought about it, and rebuilding your transmission is probably not the way to go. You probably will run into synchro issues shortly again. Why dont you want to go to a t56? or a Getrag from a supra? or any other number of transmission options out there? Its probably going to cost you less in the long run, and you will end up with an extra gear and better ratios in addition to a stronger trans/clutch.
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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 02:54 PM
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The T-56 is a proven alternative. I would not normally change to one, but if the alternative is having a rebuild done it may be worthwhile.

You might also look at a replacement AR5.

I still don't understand how a synchro can cause motion when engaging a gear at stand-still.

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 03:12 PM
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I still don't understand how a synchro can cause motion when engaging a gear at stand-still.
I found this on another forum that seems to explain it:

When you are off the clutch in neutral, the input shaft of the trasmission is spinning with the engine, while the output shaft is not, since it's connected to the road. The gears connect the input and output shaft together.

When you push the clutch in and shift into first, the synro has to match the speed of the input shaft (~800rpm) to the speed of the output shaft (0rpm). This can cause the car to lurch forward just a tiny bit, while the syncro slows the input shaft to 0rpm so the gear can fully engage. Since the syncro is connected to the gear, this will put just a tiny bit of torque through to the output shaft. The reason it doesn't happen again if you keep the clutch in, then go to neutral then back to first is because the input and output shaft are already matched.

Have none of you really noticed this? Go out and try it. Start your car, put it in neutral. Then let the clutch out, clutch back in and put it into first gear really fast. The car will lurch forward just a tiny bit. It's normal and isn't a problem.
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 04:00 PM
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Just saw an AR5 on Ebay for $800 used. I don't think that you will find a T-56 or any of the Tremec transmissions for anything close to this price. I'm a little surprised that the LS conversions stayed with the AR5 but I guess that it works even though I don't think that GM put this trans on any LS motors. You may find a good used T-56 but I have yet to see one under $2400.
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 04:15 PM
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Just saw an AR5 on Ebay for $800 used. I don't think that you will find a T-56 or any of the Tremec transmissions for anything close to this price. I'm a little surprised that the LS conversions stayed with the AR5 but I guess that it works even though I don't think that GM put this trans on any LS motors. You may find a good used T-56 but I have yet to see one under $2400.
right, but as far as I know.. the r154 supra transmission is a fairly simple swap with an LS motor... which is probably why it works with our AR5. Which also means, I would look and see if people are doing r154's behind LS motor (which I am fairly sure is a decently used swap option for LS powered anything). There are options but they are $$$. Fast, cheap, reliable - you only get to pick two.
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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-18-2017, 04:42 PM
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apparently also the cd0009 transmission from 350z/g35 is the hot ticket to throw behind an LS motor right now, according to one of my drift buddies, those guys put an LS motor in everything, coupled to everything.
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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-19-2017, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDT View Post
I found this on another forum that seems to explain it:

When you are off the clutch in neutral, the input shaft of the trasmission is spinning with the engine, while the output shaft is not, since it's connected to the road. The gears connect the input and output shaft together.

When you push the clutch in and shift into first, the synro has to match the speed of the input shaft (~800rpm) to the speed of the output shaft (0rpm). This can cause the car to lurch forward just a tiny bit, while the syncro slows the input shaft to 0rpm so the gear can fully engage. Since the syncro is connected to the gear, this will put just a tiny bit of torque through to the output shaft. The reason it doesn't happen again if you keep the clutch in, then go to neutral then back to first is because the input and output shaft are already matched.

Have none of you really noticed this? Go out and try it. Start your car, put it in neutral. Then let the clutch out, clutch back in and put it into first gear really fast. The car will lurch forward just a tiny bit. It's normal and isn't a problem.
That pretty well describes what I am feeling in my car, and if that were the only issue I had with the trans I would not worry about it, but as it has been getting worse, and combined with the shifting issues I am having I will have to do something about it this winter.
I tested my 2 other manual trans cars this weekend a 1969 Firebird with a stroked OHC-6 and T-5, and the 77 Astre Formula with a 215 Buick V8 and T-5, they both have 4.11 rear gears, the Firebird weighs 3600 lbs & the Astre weighs 2800 lbs, neither car does it. Nor can I remember any of my other 20 odd manual trans cars or trucks doing it.

After searching for upgrade options and talking to a few "experts" it looks like I will be changing the trans out this winter. Still in the early research stage so I don't have any definite plans as of yet, but Tremec is located close to me and they are willing to look at the car. So that may be the next step. I really do not want to go the 6 speed rought, but it does not look like a TKO 500 or 600 will fit without modifying the trans tunnel and or center chassis. I don't want to go there. So a Magnum 6 speed may be the way to go, but they are $3000 new, and would require a new Bell housing, Clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, shifter, rear mount, & drive shaft. That sounds like a easy $5000 bill just in parts. And I haven't priced anything else out yet.

But it is a proven trans that can handle the LS2's torque. And the T56 that it is derived from has been swapped in our cars before so there should be no suprises. I will look at a few other options mentioned as well. Thanks for the ideas, keep them coming. This as all my previous cars mods is starting to snowball. I should be used to it by now.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-19-2017, 11:07 AM
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LSX LS1 LS2 LS3 LS6 LS7 LS9 L98 Engine to 350Z 370Z VQ Transmission Compound Adapter Plate

with this adaptor you can use a 350z trans with your motor (there are other cheaper adaptors, but they require unique clutch solutions). That trans can be had for under 750 dollars used, and they are common to rebuild, and parts are available. So. Some options for you.

*edit* on another note.... if the LS motor can bolt to the AR5 transmission, then that means this adaptor could probably bolt the CD009 transmission to the LNF motor, opening up a six speed option to the rest of us.

2007 Solstice GXP.

Last edited by Rainbow Dash; 09-19-2017 at 11:09 AM. Reason: *edit*
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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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Now you have me thinking, I found a Brand new in the box 350Z trans near me for $1000.00 asking price, that adaptor plate is $450 but having to saw off the stock cast on bell housing makes me nervious! I am sure I could do it but still. So figuring in a used 98-2002 F-body bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate, slave cylinder, driveshaft, X-member with mount, and what to do about the shifter. I could probably get it installed for around $3500.00 all in.

The new Tremec magnum 6-speed alone is around $3200.00 plus all the other parts would probably run close to $6000.00 all in. I may have to find a manual trans 350Z to test drive this weekend to see if I like the way the trans shifts. Hmmmmm

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cammerjeff View Post
Now you have me thinking, I found a Brand new in the box 350Z trans near me for $1000.00 asking price, that adaptor plate is $450 but having to saw off the stock cast on bell housing makes me nervious! I am sure I could do it but still. So figuring in a used 98-2002 F-body bellhousing, clutch, pressure plate, slave cylinder, driveshaft, X-member with mount, and what to do about the shifter. I could probably get it installed for around $3500.00 all in.

The new Tremec magnum 6-speed alone is around $3200.00 plus all the other parts would probably run close to $6000.00 all in. I may have to find a manual trans 350Z to test drive this weekend to see if I like the way the trans shifts. Hmmmmm
See now you are cookin with gas! If the trans is near you, maybe you could go take some measurements and see where the shifter location ends up compared to the AR5 trans, and get some detailed photos. I personally would probably try and find the cheapest trans possible, and then just rebuild it. Since the bell housing needs to be cut off anyway, getting a new one would be kind of a waste. Butttttttttttt on the same token the piece of mind with a brand new trans would be much better!

2007 Solstice GXP.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 09-20-2017, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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I may have figured out another option, I found the AR-5 Transmission is basically the same transmission that Toyota put in the Supra's and called a r154. There are a couple of companies that rebuild and upgrade r154's and advertise they can rebuild/upgrade your trans for $1300 plus shipping, plus the cost of any shaft, gear or case replacement required. They claim they can upgrade the r154 to withstand 500 lb ft or torque.

So if they will work on my AR-5 $1500 and no major modifications sound like a great deal to me. I will let you know what I find out.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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