Asin AR5 to Tremec Magnum TR-6060 swap - Page 2 - Pontiac Solstice Forum
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:34 AM
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The stock 5 speed syncro's fail sooner rather than later at power levels above 400. Or so I have read here many times.
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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelmesh View Post
Do you know of any details as to the root cause and what failed? Manual AR5 trans right? If there are any details on AR5 failures, it's buried in google.
Typically from what we have seen, the syncros on 3rd and 4th gear start to wear. The parts are available to rebuild the AR5, but typically you can buy a used or almost new transmission from the quotes we have received so far.
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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 10:42 AM
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I was envisioning shafts, splines or gear teeth exploding when I heard failure. "Failure" is a spectrum hehe

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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 01:03 PM
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If you can't shift into or out of a gear, does it matter if the gear broke or if the syncro broke?

The end result is the same. In fact, if I had to choose a failure, having the shifting fail before the gears fail would be my choice.


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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 01:21 PM
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If it doesn't work at all it is definitely a failure I agree.

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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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My failure was shifting up into 3rd gear, under power I have to double clutch the 2-3 shift, and that takes all the fun out of a quick shift. Strangely I have no issue downshifting from 4th to 3rd? Also shift into 3rd at low throttle settings is also just a little notchy but possible.
My car chassis dyno'd at 388 rear wheel HP, so my LS2 either is a very good one, or had some work done by the PO that I don't know about. With a stock 400 HP to the flywheel, I would expect the rear wheel HP reading to be around 360 plus or minus 5 HP, so I have around 25 HP more than I thought I had, not a bad thing.
I am spending the evening assembling the Transmission Jack I picked up today. So no Progress on the car.

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-16-2018, 03:52 PM
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At a 17% loss is more like 332(400x0.83) at the wheels and not 360 +/- 5., even if you go with a 15% is 340(400x0.85).
In order to get 360 at the wheels with a translation of 400 at the crank the loss would be just 10%.

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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-23-2018, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatinVenom View Post
At a 17% loss is more like 332(400x0.83) at the wheels and not 360 +/- 5., even if you go with a 15% is 340(400x0.85).
In order to get 360 at the wheels with a translation of 400 at the crank the loss would be just 10%.
You are correct, miss calculation on my part. I am suspecting my car has had a cam change done by the original owner, but I have nothing to verify that.

Update I did manage to get the AR5 out of the car last Saturday before I had to travel to TN for work. I had a couple of issues but it did come out. My original plan was to pull the Trans/Bellhousing as a unit. But even with all the different extensions, universals, & universal sockets I own I could not get at 2 of the bolts. So I separated the trans/adaptor plate from the Bellhousing, removed the transmission, then pulled the bellhousing. 1st step was to disconnect the clutch slave cylinder hydraulic line at the master cylinder by removing the clip. My car did not have a bracket to attach the hydraulic line to the firewall as I understand the 2.4 & 2.0 cars do.

My 1st snag occurred when I removed the transmission crossmenber, and lowered the rear of the trans to try to gain access to the bellhousing bolts. This brought the LS2 Oil Filter into contact with the engine crossmember bending the oil filter and causing a leak. I removed the oil filter and loosened the lower engine mount bolts to allow me to raise the engine and lower the rear of the transmission.

So I removed the eight 15mm adaptor plate bolts and slide the AR5 back about 6 inches. I could not seem to get the line to the slave cylinder loose to I removed the two 10mm bolts securing the slave cylinder to the AR5. The removed the AR5.

I could then remove the two remaining 15mm bellhousing bolts. This is about when I realized I didn't need to buy the 1998-2002 Camaro/Firebird Bellhousing I bought as that was what was already bolted to the LS2! Dumb on my part.

Then I simply removed the old clutch slave cylinder, actually almost fell out even though it did not want to move with the transmission in place, and remove the Bellhousing.

I then removed the clutch pressure plate & Disc. Inspecting it I do not see any real wear so if I can verify that it is a LUK Gold Corvette or Camaro part as I suspect I will reuse it.

Now that I could see the Flywheel I was pleasantly surprised to find out it has a light weight aluminum flywheel installed, it appears to be a LS7 part.




The Aluminum Flywheel explains how fast this engine spools up, it does rev faster than any V8 street engine I have driven. It also explains why the car does not like to be babied from a stop.

I now have a week to try to verify the clutch parts. When I get back into town I will measure the setback of the slave cylinder with the adaptor plate and bellhousing, and compare it to the 6060. I also need to compare the electrical connections on the two transmissions to see if I need to rewire or shop for adaptor pigtails. Just did not have enough time before the trip.

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1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-25-2018, 12:58 PM
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I'm running a dual-disc Mantic 9000 setup for the clutch in mine. It's very nice, and significantly lighter than the LUK/Z06 pieces that were originally installed.

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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-25-2018, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, but after looking at the price difference I don't have an additional $1500.00 in the budget at this point. Unfortunaly I still have to pay for at least 2 more rounds of Chemo for my Wife's Dog (my dog to) and that's about what that is going to cost me. It looks like I will be reinstalling the Z06 Clutch infront of the Tremec 6060.

I will keep that in mind for when the LUK needs replacement though.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Well I finally got the ambition to get something done after a week of almost daily snow shoveling. I compared the electrical connectors on the 2 transmissions, and both have the same connectors Yeah! I also installed the original bellhousing on the Tremec and R-5 and measured the depth to the slave cylinder mount, then swapped the bellhousing onto the Tremec 6060 and got the same measurement Yeah! I then test fit the original LUK clutch disk onto the Tremec and it slid on. So I verified I can reuse the original Clutch assembly. That saves about $400 and I was happy with the feel of the original Clutch.




I did discover 1 issue I thought I had worked out, the shifter position on the Tremec is almost 4 inches farther forward than on the AR-5 the AR-5 shifter is centered at 27 15/16" back from the front face of the adaptor plate, the Tremec shifter is centered at 24 1/8" back from the front face of the trans. Bummer I have to look into shifter changes.

I still have to verify the trans crossmember will work, and work out a modified drive shaft. I hope to start reassembling this weekend.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Update on the shifter, it looks like I can get a custom offset shifter made in 1/2" increments for around $300. So like everything else for a "Small Fee" it can be corrected. More info as I receive it.

Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Another thing I did not consider, the Tremec 6060 (and T-56's) have a reverse Lockout Solenoid to keep the driver from shifting into reverse when attempting to shift into 5th gear. The 6060 has a fully synchronized reverse gear, so you can force it into reverse at speed. I can Purchase a Kit for around $100 to hook it up. Or not hook it up, as I have been told most drivers in retro fit applications do not have an issue pushing past the detent spring to engage reverse when needed. Andy Opinions? It would be easier to install in now then retro fit it later.
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Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 03:58 PM
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I just completed a clutch and differential change in my 07 Sky Mallett. I considered The 6060 but the time wasn't right to tie up my garage for an extended project. I did contact Mallett and he told me the GTO tail shaft is what he used to get the shifter to line up. Good job on your project so far.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the Kind Words Mike. I was actually out in the Garage working on the car yesterday when you posted.

I was actually home this weekend and was able to work on the car. I was able to Bolt on the Flywheel, Clutch disc and Pressure Plate, along with the Bellhousing.

After a Prolonged 3 hour struggle we were finally able to get the 6060 Bolted into place. We (my 70 year old Father inlaw) struggled to get the input shaft to align with the Pilot Bearing, this is the 1st car I have owned that used a Pilot Bearing and not a Pilot Bushing in the crankshaft. I think the lack of a lead in surface on the bearing contributed to the difficulty to align the input shaft. But it did finally go in. So I was able to get an accurate measurement for the new driveshaft and as of this mourning that is in the works. The Trans is being held in place by a 2X6 until I can get the driveshaft reinstalled.


I also did some other unrelated work, I received the rebuilt Penske/Mallet rear Coil over shocks, installed and adjusted them, and removed the leaking front shocks to be sent out later this week for the same attention. I did remove the redundant upper coil spring mounts & rubber isolators that I think was causing the rattling noise I was hearing on rough pavement. They almost fell off the upper mounts with the shocks removed, I will remove the front ones before I reinstall them.


On the Stock Chrome wheels I never really cared for the stock all silver arrowhead caps, so I swapped them out with a set of Black Caps from 97-2002 Pontiac wheels. I like the contrast better, but understand if others don't.


I also repaired the Folding passenger seat cupholder with the new 3D printed part from a member here. Sorry no Pictures.
Back on the road for another week, hopefully I can make some more progress this weekend when I return from Bay City MI.
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Certified Pontaholic & Former Jet Mech

1969 Firebird Sprint 301 OHC-6, T-5
1971 Catalina Freeway Enforcer 455
1973 Lemans Safari 400 4-speed
1977 Astre Formula 215 V-8 T-5
1978 Sunbird Safari 231 V-6 2004R
1978 Catalina Safari Soon to have a Pontiac 400 4bb
2006 Mallet Solstice LS2 6-speed Manual
2009 G8 GT
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