Stock block is toast? - Pontiac Solstice Forum
 2Likes
  • 1 Post By ChopTop
  • 1 Post By raygun
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
technobuffalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Posts: 52
Garage
Stock block is toast?

Hey guys,

Just a quick update on my build. Got the engine and turbo all hooked up, just to watch it squirt oil and coolant out the passenger side head gasket.

At this point, I'm starting to assume that the stock block is warped, so I'm looking for suggestions on what to do now. What is the best route? I could take the old block out and send it to a machine shop, buy a ZZP block, or find a good block at the salvage yard.

I'm kind of at a loss at this point because I was just hoping a new gasket and machined head would do the trick.
technobuffalos is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-09-2017, 08:57 PM
Moderator
 
rob the elder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Parker Colorado, USA, directly above the center of the earth
Posts: 15,743
Sorry to learn of your problem.

Hopefully you will find a good course of action going forward that fits your needs and budget.

Rob the Elder

Punisher's Daddy
Green Dragon's chief mechanic
Carol's husband for 50 years

Secretary Rocky Mountain Solstice and Sky Club
Punisher's story
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f62/punisher-65168/
Punisher thread index
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post1765649
https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...ml#post2067289

rob the elder is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-11-2017, 06:09 PM
Member
 
ChopTop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hooterville, MI
Posts: 6,661
Found this vid, check to see if the block or cylinder head is warped.

raygun likes this.

.
.
.
.
.
Mr & Mrs ChopTop's 09 Fastback & 06 Vert Mods thread:https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f...session-75468/ Original join date; Oct 2005 under LowLife handle.
ChopTop is offline  
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-12-2017, 02:49 PM
Member
 
raygun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,453
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to raygun
+1 for ChopTop's response.

Check warpage before pulling the block. With a REAL machinist's straight-edge, not a metal ruler.

If I recall correctly, you used the ARP studs. What did you torque them to? Did you use the torque sequence from the service manual? How many steps did you take to get them up to spec?

Note: the ARP studs should be torqued to 90#ft, with the ARP lubricant (no loctite on those suckers), in clean holes and in the sequence shown in the FSM. Doing it wrong may warp the head, but the block is pretty resilient (bigger heat sink). My block got to 304F. I had the head machined, block was and is fine.

If you decide that you must replace the block - and I'd be very surprised if you need to - avoid LKQ. Please.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces

Last edited by raygun; 07-12-2017 at 02:54 PM.
raygun is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-16-2017, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
technobuffalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Posts: 52
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by raygun View Post
+1 for ChopTop's response.

Check warpage before pulling the block. With a REAL machinist's straight-edge, not a metal ruler.

If I recall correctly, you used the ARP studs. What did you torque them to? Did you use the torque sequence from the service manual? How many steps did you take to get them up to spec?

Note: the ARP studs should be torqued to 90#ft, with the ARP lubricant (no loctite on those suckers), in clean holes and in the sequence shown in the FSM. Doing it wrong may warp the head, but the block is pretty resilient (bigger heat sink). My block got to 304F. I had the head machined, block was and is fine.

If you decide that you must replace the block - and I'd be very surprised if you need to - avoid LKQ. Please.
I'm towing the car to a shop this week. I cleaned the holes with compressed air, torqued all bolts in 3 steps to 90#. Definitely did everything in accordance to the ARP instructions. I worked the star pattern from the outside to the middle. the leak is coming from the front passenger side. I redid the head gasket a second time with a friend who is a mechanic, who watched me torque everything down. When I cranked it, I had oil and coolant leaking out together, whereas before it was only oil.

I'm pretty sure that the gasket can't be upside down because only one side had a port for the oil restrictor on the driver side. Definitely going to need another head gasket though.

Pure 2006, first 1000, #746 Solstice

Stage II RPM-Motorsport turbo kit, BC racing coilovers, Z0k suspension, DDM braces
technobuffalos is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-22-2017, 10:39 AM
Member
 
raygun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,453
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to raygun
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobuffalos View Post
I'm towing the car to a shop this week.
Any updates?

Congratulations on finding a shop that'll work on your car. The only person I've found here in town that'll touch a domestic car with a turbo kit is someone I wouldn't trust with my lawn mower.

Now, it's a really nice lawn mower, but, still.

Great. Now I'm thinking about doing forced induction on the mower.
rob the elder likes this.

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces
raygun is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
technobuffalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Posts: 52
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by raygun View Post
Any updates?

Congratulations on finding a shop that'll work on your car. The only person I've found here in town that'll touch a domestic car with a turbo kit is someone I wouldn't trust with my lawn mower.

Now, it's a really nice lawn mower, but, still.

Great. Now I'm thinking about doing forced induction on the mower.
Haha, now that's an interesting idea.

I actually had a mechanic from the machine shop stop by my house, and take a look at why I was having such a substantial leak. What we found was that it was most likely interference in the mating surface. The aftermarket water pump that I installed, has a lip that protrudes vertically past the block. the metal lip appears to have been "mushroomed" by the head, and there is a good amount of evidence that points to the head being torqued onto this lip. It would explain the oil leak since the high pressure oil feed is just inches away from this problem area. the lip is less than a tenth of an inch, but it does come in contact between the head and block. So, when I was torquing the studs, the head was applying pressure to that lip instead of the surrounding area on the block.

I went ahead and sanded this lip, and cleaned the top of the block, while the machine shop refinishes the head and ports that edge that comes in contact with the water pump. So now I'm still the only one touching my baby for now, and I'm saving money on the tow and labor.

Pure 2006, first 1000, #746 Solstice

Stage II RPM-Motorsport turbo kit, BC racing coilovers, Z0k suspension, DDM braces
technobuffalos is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 12:52 PM
Member
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by raygun View Post
If I recall correctly, you used the ARP studs. What did you torque them to? Did you use the torque sequence from the service manual? How many steps did you take to get them up to spec?

Note: the ARP studs should be torqued to 90#ft, with the ARP lubricant (no loctite on those suckers), in clean holes and in the sequence shown in the FSM.
I wonder if the instructions on the Ecotec ARP head studs are different from the ones they had back in the day for the iron 3800 series V6s. I remember in that one the instructions called for a three step torque routine that ended at 90ft/lbs but then to add 90 degrees using a torque angle gauge. Sounds like this last step is no longer called for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by technobuffalos View Post

I actually had a mechanic from the machine shop stop by my house, and take a look at why I was having such a substantial leak. What we found was that it was most likely interference in the mating surface....
Glad you found the problem. little things like that suck so much.

07 Saturn Sky 2.4
Midnight Blue
MagnaFlow dual outlet exhaust
GMPP CAI

Info above for both my Skys. One owned from 06-07, one from 14 to present
Robotech is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 01:27 PM
Member
 
raygun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,453
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to raygun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I wonder if the instructions on the Ecotec ARP head studs are different from the ones they had back in the day for the iron 3800 series V6s. I remember in that one the instructions called for a three step torque routine that ended at 90ft/lbs but then to add 90 degrees using a torque angle gauge. Sounds like this last step is no longer called for.







Glad you found the problem. little things like that suck so much.


The Ecotec ARP studs aren't torque-to-yield. Adding the extra 90 (or 135) degrees shouldn't be done in this case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Blue-ish 2006 2.4, Werks stage 1 turbo, Borla cat-back, DDM braces, Spec aluminum flywheel, Spec stage 2 clutch, Werks aluminum radiator, some gauges, RKSport hood, Morimoto FX-Rs, GReddy Profec, Norm's fenders

'07 GXP, RPM Stage 2, Solocatless downpipe, TCE Wilwood 6 piston front brakes, 4-piston rears , Stainless brake lines, slotted/drilled rotors, BC Racing BR coilovers, Performance Autowerks intercooler, DDMWorks CAI, charge pipes and braces
raygun is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-26-2017, 01:34 PM
Member
 
Robotech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by raygun View Post
The Ecotec ARP studs aren't torque-to-yield. Adding the extra 90 (or 135) degrees shouldn't be done in this case.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I must be confusing the stock head bolts with the ARP then. I know the stock bolts were torque to yield and the ARP were not but I never dealt with them often and it has been 10 years. LOL Thanks for the clarification.

07 Saturn Sky 2.4
Midnight Blue
MagnaFlow dual outlet exhaust
GMPP CAI

Info above for both my Skys. One owned from 06-07, one from 14 to present
Robotech is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-31-2017, 03:07 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
technobuffalos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Posts: 52
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotech View Post
I wonder if the instructions on the Ecotec ARP head studs are different from the ones they had back in the day for the iron 3800 series V6s. I remember in that one the instructions called for a three step torque routine that ended at 90ft/lbs but then to add 90 degrees using a torque angle gauge. Sounds like this last step is no longer called for.



Glad you found the problem. little things like that suck so much.
I WISH that I found the problem, but it did the same thing with everything sanded down and torqued down to 90 ft lbs. The shop mechanic is coming by my house this week to scope things out.

Pure 2006, first 1000, #746 Solstice

Stage II RPM-Motorsport turbo kit, BC racing coilovers, Z0k suspension, DDM braces
technobuffalos is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Pontiac Solstice Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome