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6 speed manual transmision in the Solstice

30K views 62 replies 31 participants last post by  cammerjeff 
#1 ·
I have a stupid question, I heard that you can use the stock 5 speed transmission from the Solstice with an LS2 motor. If this is true could you use the 6 speed transmission from the corvette on the 2.4L Ecotec Motor??? Lets get some feedback on this....Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the transmission length and possibly the bellhousing amongst other things like shifter placement etc. I'm not knowledgable enough to know the specifics of what would be involved in a 6 speed mod. (I'd get the richmond 6-speed anyway, one less overdrive gear)
 
#3 ·
Well, a different bellhousing would be needed to bolt the 5speed to the LS2. I would assume that it would be the same the other way around as well. As far as shifter location and things like that, While I don't have measurements I have (kinda) checked it out, and I don't think there would be a problem..

jay
 
#7 ·
The concept had a different Ecotec motor, I believe it was the 2.0L.
 
#9 ·
I would really be concerned about the transmisson length. While I was in college (many years ago) I read a for sale ad for a Bug Eye Sprite that the owner had dropped in a Chevy 283. The ad went on to talk about performance and ended with the comment that the car had a 3-speed transmission because a 4-speed wouldn't fit. I'd be concerned about the same possible problem with the Solstice. By the way, I'll bet that Sprite could really run fast in a straight line. :lol:
 
#10 ·
Dude, its called a custom driveshaft! length is not an issue. The only limiting factor is where the shifter would poke through and even that can be fixed with a relocation kit of some kind. When customizing keep in mind that there is Always a way!

Btw, I found that the six speed in the concept was a Borg Warner from a C5 corvette. If GM can do it so can I! Now I just need some parts ...and a car!
 
#11 ·
The Corvette transmission is a rear mount transmission. It won't fit in the Kappa all that well (if at all).

Not sure why you would want it with the 2.4L anyway. It is really just a 5 speed transmission with a second overdrive gear to help it achieve decent highway fuel mileage and avoid a gas guzzler tax. It doesn't have 6 speeds for performance reasons.

Besides, I don't think this car really needs a true 6 speed with the stock engine. It has a pretty flat power curve as it is, and I would think that adding an extra shift would cost you more time to shift then it would gain you in keeping the revs up a little more.
 
#23 ·
I agree!!!
I get to second too quick as it is!!!
I wouldn't want another gear.

fred
 
#12 ·
Info

Keisler engineering has an adaptor plate as well as a bellhousing to bolt up a tremec or many other GM transmissions. I have already looked into this as i may be building a solstice to run in the nhra/nopi in sport RWD. Google ecotec tremec and youll see the webpage. now drop in a fully built turbo engine from the build book and the trans and go hunting :devil:
 
#13 ·
Well since I'm not keeping the stock engine it doesn't matter much! and yes you CAN mount a vette trans to a bellhousing, it doesnt matter much to it! You just have to make an adapter and an output housing ...that or use an early C4 trans, or something else... I think I'm going to end up using a highly modified LS1 in mine, but I'll decide that when I get there.
 
#32 ·
I would love to see this setup. By the way wlecome back again I have not seen you around in ages.
 
#14 ·
Bob Lutz has been quoted as saying they looked at 6 speeds in the solstice and found them to be no quicker 0-60 or in the quarter mile than the 5 speed.

The main reason to want a 6 speed, (with the base engine, anyway) would be for track racing, where you could use the closer ratios.

I also read in an article in the news section, that Pontiac didn't have the time or want to spend the money to use non off-the-shelf gears, and they realize that the drop from 2nd to 3rd is a little too big.

I'd bet that the 07's have this issue addressed, and maybe even an optional 6 speed.
 
#16 ·
Cadillac uses an Aisin AY6 6 speed in the V6 CTS. Its capable of handling 255 lb-ft of torque, higher than the AR-5's 225 lb-ft rating. The bell housing is different as is the shape of the gear box and the shift linkage is in a completely different location. By the look of it, no way it would easily transplant into the Solstice.

OTOH, it may be possible to transplant a couple of its cogs to improve the ratios in the AR-5, 3rd, 4th and 5th gears in particular. IMO, all three of these gears are too tall in the Solstice. If the gears could be transplanted, the ratios would change from:

3rd: 1.37 to 1.53
4th: 1.00 to 1.15
5th: 0.73 to 0.79 (6th gear in the AY6)

This would give the Solstice a closer ratio lower four gears with a useable 5th gear overdirve. The distance in ratio from 4th to 5th would increase, but that's a bit of a small price to pay if your interest is in spirited backroad driving or track day fun. In those instances, you won't visit that very tall 5th gear much in the first place.
 
#17 ·
Six speeds are really about manufacturers getting better gas mileage for goverment testing.

Five speeds are more than fine.

I almost never use 6th gear in my car. Its really just a cruising gas mileage gear. Fifth is also an overdrive.

I would imagine the F body ls1 version of the Vette tranny would work great.

Probably inexpensive to buy from a wreckage yard?

Same for the LS1 motor.

Plenty of guys selling ls6 motors with around 10K miles for about 4 grand because they want to go to a forged 402 LS2 and get about 505 rear wheel hp.

LS1's are probably half that cost....

Starting to get interesting right?
 
#19 ·
TOY4TWO said:
Is the Turbo that is being announced in a few weeks have a 6 speed?
Unknown at this point. GM has not announced the transmission. The original showcar has a 6 speed with an F/I engine, but GM is also likely to stick with a parts bin transmission which could mean they will continue with a 5 speed.
 
#20 ·
JBsZ06 said:
Six speeds are really about manufacturers getting better gas mileage for goverment testing.

Five speeds are more than fine.

I almost never use 6th gear in my car. Its really just a cruising gas mileage gear. Fifth is also an overdrive.

I would imagine the F body ls1 version of the Vette tranny would work great.
Getting the dual overdrive six speed on this car would be ridiculous unless you put on some insane rear gears like 4.55:1...or higher.
 
#21 ·
I've been looking in to this swap since i ordered my Sky Red Line heres what i found:

Base 2.4 L LE5 I4 177 hp 170 ft·lbf

Red Line 2.0 L LNF I4 260 hp 260 ft·lbf

Both use a 5-speed Aisin AR-5 manual (GM RPO AM5) (Optional 5-speed GM 5L40-E automatic) the same manual Trans as the Canyon, Colorado, H3, Toyota Hilux, Toyota Land Cruiser/Prado, Isuzu Trooper/Bighorn, Suzuki Grand Vitara/Escudo, BMC Levend.

Aisin also makes a RWD 6-speed Manual Transmission the Aisin AY6 found in the Toyota Land Cruiser Prado, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Tacoma, Cadillac CTS, Holden Commodore.

Im have a hard time finding blue prints or specific data, but a person i talked to at Aisin said they are very similar and should be exchangable with little modification. He also mentioned that they have 2 other trans that are similar.

-AH15/AH16 6-speed from the Toyota Dyna, Toyota Coaster, Hino Dutro.
-AZ6 6-speed from the Mazda Miata/MX-5/Roadster, Mazda RX-8, Toyota Altezza/Lexus IS200.

If yall find any more data please share, this should be a doable project. Im also looking into a stroker kit or engine swap from a european LNF series Direct Injected Turbo engine. Ill let you know what i find out.

Thanks --Chris

Check out Aisin site.

AISIN - Products - Automotive Parts
 
#24 ·
I don't think a Tremec will mount to an Ecotec. Besides being a 6 speed and being able to handle a lot of power and torque it isn't really that great. I had one in my 04 GTO and it was very notchy and clunky and wasn't very enjoyable in the cold eather. The only reason I'd put a T56 in my sol was if I dropped an LSX engine in it.

I know the C6 has a rear trans, but I believe the C5 is mated to the engine.
 
#27 ·
The Solstice 2.4 does need a 6 speed for sure. At 55MPH my revs are under 2,000 and I get 36.4 miles per gallon on the Highway.

If I bring the car up to 65MPH the revs go up to 2,500+ and I lose about 5 MPG. That's kinda sad.

My 08 Altima CVT 6 speed Automatic easily gets 38 MPG at 65 all day long. That extra gear brings down the revs big time.

G.M. could easily make the Solstice in a 6 speed, and it would help their overall MPG's

Just my :jm2c:

Mitch:cool:
 
#31 ·
+1!!!

If switching this out to a six speed to lower the rpms isn't the way to go... what about the rear gear? 3.73? 3.42?... 3.08... maybe?
I know it'll kill my jack rabbit starts... but gas mileage is more important right now anyway. I think 3.73 would be pretty good because it would give me lower rpms at 65, but wouldn't kill the low end too much.
Opinions?
Toad
 
#33 ·
It could be even simpler if we wanted to get a group buy on having a custom ratio for 5th gear made.

Personally, I have been knawing over using a TKO600 when this one fails. I have a friend that powershifts the living hell out of one all the time. He makes 462whp on my dyno and has no less than 400wtrq from 2800-5600rpm. (408sbf in 88stang)
I also will be considering the STS-V 3.42 rear, pending on 1st gear ratios.
 
#34 ·
MITCH : The Solstice 2.4 does need a 6 speed for sure. At 55MPH my revs are under 2,000 and I get 36.4 miles per gallon on the Highway.

If I bring the car up to 65MPH the revs go up to 2,500+ and I lose about 5 MPG. That's kinda sad.

My 08 Altima CVT 6 speed Automatic easily gets 38 MPG at 65 all day long. That extra gear brings down the revs big time.

G.M. could easily make the Solstice in a 6 speed, and it would help their overall MPG's

Just my

Mitch
Most of that difference in mileage is due to the aerodynamic losses at the higher vehicle speed, not to the higher engine speed.

Six speeds will not necessarily make a difference in fuel mileage at cruise, the important number is the transmission's ratio range. The AR-5 has a first gear ratio of 3.75 and a fifth of 0.73 for a range of 5.14. The T-56 has gearsets that offer a 2.97 first and 0.62 sixth or a 2.66 first and 0.50 sixth. The ratio ranges are 4.79 and 5.32 respectively. What do all the numbers mean ? It means that, in terms of improved fuel mileage, one version of the T-56 could help, but that the other would hurt. There may be some advantage during acceleration and at intermediate speeds, but neither of those is easily quantifiable.

First, if we want to keep the overall drivetrain ratio fairly close in first gear we would have to change the final drive to 5.5:1. I personally think that the 3.91 in the 2.4 is too low, and that the 3.73 that is in the turbo car would be more appropriate. Even if we wanted to use the equivalent of the 3.73 we would still have to change the final drive ratio to 5.3:1.

If we assume that 65 MPH occurs at 2500 RPM with the stock drivetrain, changing the final drive from 3.91 to 3.73 would drop it to 2385 for a 4.5% decrease. At equivalent first gear ratios, the T-56 would drop 65MPH to 2415 RPM for only a 3.4% decrease. Not much benefit from something that is more expensive and heavier, especially as the weight penalty is likely to cost fuel mileage.

There may be advantages to a 6-speed over a 5-speed, but fuel economy is not necessarily it. And since the 5-speed Solstice outperforms the 6-speed Miata, maybe performance isn't it either.
 
#35 ·
I love my CVT Automatic in my 08 Altima, Is there any reason G.M. couldn't put a CVT Automatic in the Solstice? G.M. Take Note:

I rarely exceed 55MPH, But yesterday I went from 0-100 with my Altima CVT PDQ.

I would consider a Automatic Solstice with a CVT.

The Revs drop fast once you get up to Highway speed, and the acceleration seems very good.

Mitch:cool:
 
#36 ·
i would like to see the new 6speed auto(I thought i heard they are going in the new camaro)

Manual 6s are best if they and the rear can be geared to get to 60mph in first gear, Though i think the sol is lacking enough tourque to pull this off. Clutch chatter is also an issue with this type of Uro gearing. Also drivline wrapping can happen as well and or chatter. But you need a very well built third member for this as the rear is taking a huge amount of tourque since the main reduction is in the trans.

To me a double overdrive is realy not effective better to gear the rear so the first 4 are underdrives %th is 1to1 and six if a performance should be more than .85 or so.

In my z28 i use a ROD six that is geared this way and it can do 65 in first with 3.08 in the rear. Fisrt is 3.27 second is 2.22 5th is 1to1 but ihave the .76 6th overdrive and you can not use it in a full power state, wont hold up to the 462 chevy;s tourque. You can get custon gearing for these trans as well. I have had a few in my days i even have a original Doug Nash 5 speed. Back when he made them in the early 80s before richmand gear bought them out. the shifter for these new six speeds are very tight and positive as well(no hurst junk) and all connections are with sperical aircraft ends very sweet.
 
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