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Discussion Starter #1
Hi I am new to this forum and this may have been asked before but because I am lazy and did not look all that hard for this topic I will just ask.
Does it look like a V8 will fit in there? LS1-LS2 or North Star
I also saw the new GM 3.6 DOHC that is in the CTS and Lacross. That 60* V6 is much smaller than the 90* 3.5 S*

BTW were is the tranny? Is it on the engine or at the rear of the car like the Vette?

[ v6solstice ] [ v8solstice ]
 

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We've had several discussions about the engine. People have found articles that have pretty much said the Kappa platform was designed specifically for i4 engines, and that fitting a V6/i6 would require reworking of the platform to fit correctly.
 

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Brentil is right on. The official word from GM at th is time is that a V6 would not fit within the chasis. That doesn't mean one wouldn't physically fit if someone did a conversion, but it wouldn't fit well enough for GM for whatever reason to do on a production car (possibly for service issues, crash standards, etc). Of course, it may just be an excuse not to offer one at this point too.
 

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Maybe GM is just protecting the Corvette?

The europeans wanted a V8 based sports car off the Solstice chassis and were denied.

I wouldn't be surprised if GM made an edict that says no V8 can fit in the solstice chassis...
 

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It's pretty much like what Porsche did with the 924 and 944 series of cars. They were only ever sold with an i4 engine that you could get Turbocharged in some models. This kept it well below the much more powerful H6 engines in the 911's. They even went so far as to criple early 924's power output greatly to stop from eating into 911 territory.

If they made a V/i/H6 Solstice then you're bleeding into future Camaro/Firebird territory, and if they made a V8 they're bleeding into Corvette/CTS-V territory. If you can get Corvette performance from a V8 Solstice, then why buy a Corvette except for more trunk space?
 

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Lutz assigned the Solstice a mission - the affordable roadster.

Is the Corvette an affordable roadster? I think not.

A 4-cylinder fits the definition of an affordable roadster keeping down the cost to purchase, insure and operate (fuel & oil changes). It is not in the Solsice's mission to have a lot of power. It is almost beside the point that a V8 would destroy the balance and handling of the car, because the 1st mission of the Solstice is to be an AFFORDABLE roadster. :thumbs
 

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BTW were is the tranny? Is it on the engine or at the rear of the car like the Vette
It's bolted to the engine just like the good ol' days with a driveshaft going back to a differential take from Cadillac CTS.
 

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not to mention that if you want an insane amount of power, the ecotec can be taken wherever you want it to go, so an engine swap would be unnecessary
 

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Solstice isn't meant for a 6-cylinder," Queen says, noting that the small, rear-wheel-drive Kappa platform would have to be stretched to hold a 6. That means added cost besides that for the larger engine in a vehicle targeted to start at about $20,000.

"If people want a 6, then they'll have to get another GM vehicle, and we have a lot of them," Queen said.
Just for the sake of discussion, he didn't actually say it couldn't be done, just that it couldn't be done and maintain Solstice's $20,000 target. Then his referral to "another GM vehical", what other GM vehical do you think he was talking about? Any chance that might be the Sky? Or a car as yet unannounced?
 

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DreamerDave said:
Just for the sake of discussion, he didn't actually say it couldn't be done, just that it couldn't be done and maintain Solstice's $20,000 target. Then his referral to "another GM vehical", what other GM vehical do you think he was talking about? Any chance that might be the Sky? Or a car as yet unannounced?
Yeah what other 6 cylinder rwd sportscar does GM have as an alternative? LOL
I never quite understand when they say it "can't fit a V6". A V6 is no longer than an I4 and mounted longitudinally I can't see width being that much of a problem?
 

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solsticeman said:
Width is indeed a problem. As well as overall height (the V-6's in GM's current stable are taller than the 4's, believe it or not).
Taller than a 4? Wow. Thanks for the interesting info.
 

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Darkhamr said:
Yeah what other 6 cylinder rwd sportscar does GM have as an alternative? LOL
I never quite understand when they say it "can't fit a V6". A V6 is no longer than an I4 and mounted longitudinally I can't see width being that much of a problem?
In most applications, the added width of a V6 probably is not a big deal. However, the design of the Kappa Chassis could make width a problem. Since it uses a double wishbone suspension up front, the frame rails will have to be pushed closer to the center of the car. Depending on how the rest of the chassis and engine cradle, wheel wells, etc are designed into the front bay it could create for a fairly narrow space.

Besides, GM is a little short of quality V6 engines at the moment that I would really want in this roadster. They want to protect their DOHC V6’s from looking too down-market to detract from their prestige in Cadillac’s (and upper end Buicks). Therefore, Solstice would likely get one of their iron block pushrod V6’s. I personally think they make great sedan engines as they are torquey, fuel efficient, and reliable. However, I am not sure I would want one in a Solstice. I do have one in my Fiero, (2.8L 60 degree, current 3100 and 3400 engines are a more advanced offshoot) and it is not exactly a sporty engine, although it moves the car well. It is good off the line, but runs out of breath quickly and doesn’t encourage you to explore the upper RPM range.

Once GM is ready to do aluminum DOHC V6’s over at Pontiac, I will be all for it. Until then, boost an Ecotec for me!
 

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Yeah, exactly. I'd rather see a boosted version of this advanced ECOTEC then a larger V6 that's based off of old technology.
 

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Fformula88 said:
boost an Ecotec for me!

For me too! Look, I will be the first one to be drooling all over a Solstice that someone has managed to wedge a V8 into, but just because I would think it's cool doesn't mean I'd want one or that GM should build them. The Ecotec is capable of providing more power than this car is meant to handle. Once you get pass the 300 HP range(300-400) with a car this size they will start having to put all kinds of electronic nannies in the car to keep people from getting themselves killed. So you pay extra to get a bigger motor, then you have to pay extra for all the gadgets that you have to get with said motor... congrats you just bought a Vette!?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I dont know much about the little Sol (that is why I am here, I realy like the little car and want to know more about it) but I have done engine swaps. Some in cars that others were sure could not be done.
It is hard for me to belive that a car like the Sol is about an inch narrower than a C5 is to small for a V6? The Vette has a 90* V8 and indipendent A arm suspension. The engine I would like to see in the Sol is the new 3.6 DOHC. The new V6 is a 60* V. This is a more compact engine than the LS1/LS2 that is used in the C5. So why would you think the narrower V6 would not fit in the bay of the Sol? I can see the New V6 being taller than the 4 I would like to see replaced but I dont know for sure witch is taller. I would also try to put the tranny in the rear like the Vette. This would better balance out the car.
I saw some artical that said the Sol had used the Vette tranny in the rear, along with a bunch of other things that wont make the final production. But GM has already made a Sol with a rear mounted tranny, so it can be done. That is if that artical was right. The car in question was a show car or a proto type. I looked over the pics of the de-skinned Sol realy good and noticed that there seems to be plenty of room for a rear mounted tranny. So if an adapter was made to mount the torque tube from the tranny of a Vette to the new DOHC V6, it could be done.
I just dont buy the stuff about a V6 Sol taking away sales of the Vette. They just dont see each other eye to eye.
BTW look at Ferrari, all they make is sports cars. GM would be totaly stupid to think they cant make more than one sports car.
 

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Rickady88GT said:
I dont know much about the little Sol (that is why I am here, I realy like the little car and want to know more about it) but I have done engine swaps. Some in cars that others were sure could not be done.
It is hard for me to belive that a car like the Sol is about an inch narrower than a C5 is to small for a V6? The Vette has a 90* V8 and indipendent A arm suspension. The engine I would like to see in the Sol is the new 3.6 DOHC. The new V6 is a 60* V. This is a more compact engine than the LS1/LS2 that is used in the C5. So why would you think the narrower V6 would not fit in the bay of the Sol? I can see the New V6 being taller than the 4 I would like to see replaced but I dont know for sure witch is taller. I would also try to put the tranny in the rear like the Vette. This would better balance out the car.
I saw some artical that said the Sol had used the Vette tranny in the rear, along with a bunch of other things that wont make the final production. But GM has already made a Sol with a rear mounted tranny, so it can be done. That is if that artical was right. The car in question was a show car or a proto type. I looked over the pics of the de-skinned Sol realy good and noticed that there seems to be plenty of room for a rear mounted tranny. So if an adapter was made to mount the torque tube from the tranny of a Vette to the new DOHC V6, it could be done.
I just dont buy the stuff about a V6 Sol taking away sales of the Vette. They just dont see each other eye to eye.
BTW look at Ferrari, all they make is sports cars. GM would be totaly stupid to think they cant make more than one sports car.
A GM rep basically said a V6 would not fit in the engine bay, and therefore they were not planning a V6 version at this time. Whether it is true or not is another story, but that is GM’s reasoning for going all 4 bangers on this one.

I haven’t seen the new high feature DOHC V6’s up close so I cannot comment for certain on its size. However, all else being equal, a DOHC engine tends to get wide because of the amount of mechanical bits at the top of the engine for the DOHC setup.

You and everyone else on the forum may agree that it is silly to think a V6 Solstice could infringe on Corvette sales, but the folks over at Chevy may disagree. Their concern may not be directly with a V6, but what that could mean in the future. What if Pontiac ups the ante with a turbo V6? A V8? Then Corvette sales could be hit! Chevy is GM’s biggest division and has a lot of pull. They have gotten projects killed in the past that have had too much potential in their estimation for hurting Corvette sales too.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I took a good look at the De-skinned Sol again and if you look close you can see that the frame rails are low, about were the crank case is. There is plenty of room for a V in there. A V 8 or V6 90* or 60* does not matter there is room in the frame. Now the problem is at the top. You would have to do minor mods and relocate some of the components. The power steering remot res. can be moved anywere, just get longer lines and make a braket. The anti-lock brake modual can be moved over a few inces , under the coolant surge tank. The battery can be moved to the rear of the car or under the front bumper (like the Ferarri 355) and relocate the fuse/relay box to the stock battery location. The brake fluid res should clear but if not it can be replaced with a remote type and moved to a better place. the hardest part of the swap looks like the exhaust system. That would be a real fun project but I cant see any reason why it could not work.
There IS room for the new V6. They (GM) said a V8 would not fit in a Fiero eather, but they helped Gary Zumwalt put a big block Pontiac race preped engine in the 80's. It would have never when into production but it could be done.
Part of the reason they say it "cant " "wont" be done is because they would have to do hundreds of VERY expensive tests to get it DOT legal. This project is not even up and running yet, they dont want it to get to expensive. They want to sell the car and make money first, if they said they had a V6,V8 in the works they might loos sails to people that will wate for the bigger engine. They also have to deal with ALOT of other issuse that would make the car more expensive to buy and own. They also dont have the premium V6 in enough numbers to do the production yet. Remember there are other GM cars that wanted the new V6 but were turned down because they cant keep up with demand. The new V6 can be and will be made in many diferent sizes like 2.7 al the way up to 3.9. The Sol would most likely get the 2.7.
Dont fool yourself GM already thaught about doing this (they had to, who wouldent) and most likely already made the provesions to do it, they are just wating for the right time to do it. They first need to see if people will even buy the car first. If all the press reviews complane about the power and sails fall, GM will be forced into rushing the V6 into production, if they do have plans to do it.

Again the argument about the Corvette loosing sails is just does not hold water :banghead How many diferent SUV's and Trucks does GM make? Do you realy think they said "We cant make any more types of SUV's or Truck's because we dont want to loose sails of the ????? line of Trucks" No they dont say that, in fact they are coming out with more diferent types of truck's and SUV's.

I have seen the new V6 and it is a very narow engine. Even at the top were the heads are the widest part is compact. I would LOVE to get my hands on this car and engine and get to work on them :party
 

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I can't imagine GM not actively planning to keep their options open for a V6 in the Kappa. It would just be bad business. I agree with Rickady88GT (welcome to the board by the way!), There is room, and it is possible. I think GM reps are telling people "no way" right now to keep from getting people's hopes up and spoiling I4 sales. However I think a V8 will never happen. The Kappa platform just isn't that sort of thing.

V6 stealing Vette sales? People buy Vettes because they have V8s. I doubt too many potential Vette buyers will down grade to a V6 Kappa, well not any more than the Solstice will steal already. Besides, if Vette sales slump do to a V6 Kappa, they can always go to a V10 in the Vette or bump the HP up another 100. :D
 
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