[cadillacricket]

No malice intended.... I have been doing this job for a while now... I heard you ranting about repeat business and taking care of customers... And loosing money these past fifteen years to market savvy customers who slip YOU the stick when YOU sell THEM a car......

Where do you get off? Since when is selling a car such hard work that you deserve a grand in your pocket for handing someone the keys? How much do you sweat at work everyday? Then you sell a truck to billy joe, who works sun up to sundown for his family, stick a quick hundred in your pocket, then turn around and say he screwed you?

I sell cars close to invoice sometimes... I gove away a years worth of oil changes, after I add it to the invoice price. And the invoice you complain about being printed off the net. Wouldn't it be easier to bring it to the negotiation table before the customer does? No matter how unreasonable they are, customers understand that you are in business to make a profit, not take a loss. And when they point out the 237 amount, I tell them about advertising, I tell them about dealer mark up on interest rates, I tell them about the 200 dollars I packed in for going to Chicago to get the car.. I even tell them about the twenty that we add for the calander with their car on it, and the t-shirts we give away with each car....

Customer service my aching ass......your about the buck. I nailed shingles for eight years, and remember when my mom didn't have to money to put the food on the table... Yeah sometimes I drop my pants and take it for a rude customer that lies cheats and steals to get what they want, but such is life... Paid a hundred out of my pocket(my whole commission) once cause I quoted one price over the phone for a part, after I sent her home in her car, and she swore up and down I said a hundred less.... Then I took her out to lunch, and sold her daughter a car. And her cousins, and aunts....

Concentrate on those kindergarten graduations, and calling on their birthday, and never even mention cars.... Show them your invoice and tell them to make an offer, you will have better gross profit, and more respect that you have ever thought of getting from a customer...

I understand some of the words I use are foreign to you, like Honest, or respect.

And I know that you mods are gonna be mad since you already closed one thread dissing on brown and whatever motors, but I didn't get to say anything, dammit.....If your gonna close it, at least leave it here so he can read it....

 

[birdliver]

No malice intended.... I have been doing this job for a while now... I heard you ranting about repeat business and taking care of customers... And loosing money these past fifteen years to market savvy customers who slip YOU the stick when YOU sell THEM a car......

Where do you get off? Since when is selling a car such hard work that you deserve a grand in your pocket for handing someone the keys? How much do you sweat at work everyday? Then you sell a truck to billy joe, who works sun up to sundown for his family, stick a quick hundred in your pocket, then turn around and say he screwed you?

I sell cars close to invoice sometimes... I gove away a years worth of oil changes, after I add it to the invoice price. And the invoice you complain about being printed off the net. Wouldn't it be easier to bring it to the negotiation table before the customer does? No matter how unreasonable they are, customers understand that you are in business to make a profit, not take a loss. And when they point out the 237 amount, I tell them about advertising, I tell them about dealer mark up on interest rates, I tell them about the 200 dollars I packed in for going to Chicago to get the car.. I even tell them about the twenty that we add for the calander with their car on it, and the t-shirts we give away with each car....

Customer service my aching ass......your about the buck. I nailed shingles for eight years, and remember when my mom didn't have to money to put the food on the table... Yeah sometimes I drop my pants and take it for a rude customer that lies cheats and steals to get what they want, but such is life... Paid a hundred out of my pocket(my whole commission) once cause I quoted one price over the phone for a part, after I sent her home in her car, and she swore up and down I said a hundred less.... Then I took her out to lunch, and sold her daughter a car. And her cousins, and aunts....

Concentrate on those kindergarten graduations, and calling on their birthday, and never even mention cars.... Show them your invoice and tell them to make an offer, you will have better gross profit, and more respect that you have ever thought of getting from a customer...

I understand some of the words I use are foreign to you, like Honest, or respect.

And I know that you mods are gonna be mad since you already closed one thread dissing on brown and whatever motors, but I didn't get to say anything, dammit.....If your gonna close it, at least leave it here so he can read it....

Cricket, your post is anything but a rant. You advance the discussion by making many valid points that should be made. The fact that they include some negative activity can't be helped. The suggestion that customers enjoyed negotiating with dealers in the past certainly didn't include me. I always felt that it was a sneaky process and that I was being taken advantage of at every opportunity and it did nothing for the reputation of the car dealer. I am sure others welcome dealers' willingness to do business in the light of day and I am happy to see you guys take a reasonable profit. I am most impressed in the way I have been treated by two Pontiac dealers in Rhode Island and I will spread the word.

 

[Darkhamr]

I didn't see the original discussion, but Cricket the type of dealer / salesperson you are describing is the only type I'll buy from. If I walk in and say I'm interested in 'xyz' car and I'm asked "well how much a month can you pay" then I walk out.

 

[package]

And let's not forget to mention the floor plan allowance the the dealers rarely discuss. When a dealer buys a car to stock, they own the car. GM gives them an allowance to offset the interest they could be receiving if they'd kept the money in the bank. This covers some or all of cost of inventory that doesn't sell the minute the car hits the door. When you're selling a car that was ordered, I believe the dealer still gets the allowance, which is money straight in the pocket. We also don't know about any direct to dealer incentives GM may be offering that might apply to slow moving models or hitting monthlly sales targets. Fess up guys... invoice isn't really what the car ends up costing the dealer once all these other cash supply chains are factored in.

 

[achieftain]

Good advice from the cricket. Recalls another cricket and a wooden boy who paid no attention until it was almost too late. At least you knew when Pinnochio was lying. There is a reason that GM set Saturn up different than all the rest as a noble experiment. Too bad only some regular dealers in other lines have seen the light that the less confrontation in a purchase, the sooner a repeat or referral purchase comes along.

I'll repeat my oft-told experience here again for newbies that have missed it. In April of 1996 I preordered a GP GTP the first week it could be ordered. I had pictures from the magazines, the dealer only had spec's and no prices. We agreed that since it would be the top of the model that whatever the invoice, $500 over was fair to all sides. Loved that car till the day a bus put it out of service for good. Fast forward to Fall of '02 and after looking at new cars for awhile and having visited a very large dealer 6 hours away while at my siter-in-law's place, I was again prepared to buy. This one large dealership at the time had a policy of selling ALL new GM product at $300 over invoice, Sunfire to Bonneville, didn't matter, volume was the difference. They even offered to deliver to us 6 hours away at that price. Well, I would rather deal locally since if any problems come up they can be dealt with locally and even then considering $25k what's another $200, so I order a special edition 1 of 2000 GTP and relate my recent shopping trip to the salesman, and am about to say that even though the out of town guy would bring to me for 300 that I was prepared to go 5. I did not get that chance as he quickly checked with his manager and $300 over was good with them as long as it was good with me. All's well and good in small town America.

 

[SD SOL]

Cadillac - I don't think you're off base at all. This is the main reason most people dread going to purchase a car. I have been in the market for a new vehicle for 2 years. Ever since I moved to So Cal I haven't been able to find one dealer of any makes that will talk to me straight. The whole process has been frustrating as hell!!! I walk in with cash in hand, ready to buy, and when I say "how much" these guys want to play games. Everytime I've ended up walking out. The thing that makes no sense to me is why would you rather lose a customer (who'll probably never trust you again) over a $500 profit instead of a $1000 profit? Now you have $0 profit and another car stuck on your lot? It never makes sense to me.

If you are honest with people they will understand and respect you more. In the long run that builds a much larger, and more loyal client base than a short term profit obtained by deception will.

 

[RichSol]

...yeah baby!

Way to say it CC!

 

[deepdawg]

As a salesman/manager in the auto business for 15 years...I can say that I have seen idiots on both side of the negotiating table. A lot of salespeople are forced into trying to "rape" customers because their dealers or managers underpay them and overload the sales floor with too many salespeople. At the same time, I've dealt with many people that truly don't believe the sales people or dealership are entitled to even make $50 over invoice. Both are wrong. And both are extremes. Most salespeople and customers are more even keel and understand that everyone needs to "win" a little. Customers don't wanna pay sticker (unless its a Solstice..haha) and salespeople don't want wanna make nothing. Usually an informed salesperson can actually make a customer feel better about the purchase by doing a proper walkaround and demonstration of the features and benefits of the vehicle. Once that is accomplished, the price is no longer as big of an issue. If everyone is treated with respect and as if they are there to do business (and this includes customers treating the sales staff with respect) than the entire process is painless and everyone can "win".

 

[TerpFan]

Since we all took this car on faith, let's just not sell the Solstice through dealerships. Let's buy through GM directly!

I know I'm dreaming here, but wouldn't car buying be nice if dealerships all became service centers and part distributors only. We simply ordered cars directly from the factory, and the service center would have demo models to show us what they sell. Maybe this will be the next step the auto industry takes to reduce cost to the consumer; talk about special pricing.

 

[SCISOLSTICE]

Way to go Cricket.

 

[Ex-Miata Man]

Cricket,
I thought my dealer was the only one that remembered birthdays, or sent copies of newspaper clippings when one of your kids was standing in the back row of a team photo. My, and your, type of dealership is the only place where I do business, and it will always stay that way. Keep up the good work.

 

[Fformula88]

No malice intended.... I have been doing this job for a while now... I heard you ranting about repeat business and taking care of customers... And loosing money these past fifteen years to market savvy customers who slip YOU the stick when YOU sell THEM a car......

Where do you get off? Since when is selling a car such hard work that you deserve a grand in your pocket for handing someone the keys? How much do you sweat at work everyday? Then you sell a truck to billy joe, who works sun up to sundown for his family, stick a quick hundred in your pocket, then turn around and say he screwed you?

I sell cars close to invoice sometimes... I gove away a years worth of oil changes, after I add it to the invoice price. And the invoice you complain about being printed off the net. Wouldn't it be easier to bring it to the negotiation table before the customer does? No matter how unreasonable they are, customers understand that you are in business to make a profit, not take a loss. And when they point out the 237 amount, I tell them about advertising, I tell them about dealer mark up on interest rates, I tell them about the 200 dollars I packed in for going to Chicago to get the car.. I even tell them about the twenty that we add for the calander with their car on it, and the t-shirts we give away with each car....

Customer service my aching ass......your about the buck. I nailed shingles for eight years, and remember when my mom didn't have to money to put the food on the table... Yeah sometimes I drop my pants and take it for a rude customer that lies cheats and steals to get what they want, but such is life... Paid a hundred out of my pocket(my whole commission) once cause I quoted one price over the phone for a part, after I sent her home in her car, and she swore up and down I said a hundred less.... Then I took her out to lunch, and sold her daughter a car. And her cousins, and aunts....

Concentrate on those kindergarten graduations, and calling on their birthday, and never even mention cars.... Show them your invoice and tell them to make an offer, you will have better gross profit, and more respect that you have ever thought of getting from a customer...

I understand some of the words I use are foreign to you, like Honest, or respect.

And I know that you mods are gonna be mad since you already closed one thread dissing on brown and whatever motors, but I didn't get to say anything, dammit.....If your gonna close it, at least leave it here so he can read it....

I don't know where to begin CC.... but for now, I think i will leave it and see how it develops. The other threads were closed as they were turning into flame wars and we did not want them to continue. This one may as well, and then I will be forced to close it. However, the topic of how car dealers operate, how they earn a profit, and how customers and dealers can best negotiate and work together is a valid topic. So we'll see if it progresses or not.

I wish more dealers were like you, and GTOJ, Small Dealer, Cornejo, and all of our other dealers on the forum. All of you seem very straight forward and realistic in your dealings. Not trying to scam and BS people, but simply laying it out like it is. I have occasionally run into dealers such as yourself when buying my own vehicles, and it has been a pleasure to do business with those places. I have also been in dealers that are ruled by the all mighty buck, and juggle numbers and papers anyway they can to try and scam the customer out of one last penny. Those places I walk out of.

Your post may have been best used as a Private Message to VP, but for now lets see where it goes. (Now please everyone, don't make me regret not closing it now).

 

[cadillacricket]

thank you formula88, that makes me feel better. I would have made this a PM to the dealer in question, but I wanted everyone to know how I feel. I agree with deepdawg in that there are idiots on both sides of the fence sometimes.

Someone above mentioned that "wouldn't it be nice if dealers would just become distributors,...etc..." I see problems with that, and my opinion goes both ways. as long as the market stays like it is, there will always be crooks, so yes I agree it would be nice. On the other hand, the reason I am able to give such good service to the people walking through my door, is because I make good money. If I wasn't paid on commission, I would be just like the guy taking your order at McDonalds. Do you think he cares about how good your food tasted? Same 5.50 an hour to him right? that ties into the walk around and good presentation of the car someone had mentioned earlier. I only sell 10-15 cars a month, on a good month, but I hold a decent gross on each vehicle because I show the consumer what he is getting for his money. Obviously not on the Solstice, since I knew little about the car on April 15th, but point remains the same.

So thanks for letting me vent, just wanted to tell that dealer who he is messing with. He destroys my credibility everytime he plays a game with a customer, and that kills me. Like when I show an invoice of 17,250 on a car, ask for an offer(after a great walkaround, ride and drive, and service walk through) and they offer me $15,000. Never hurts to try, but they wouldn't if they believed I was telling the truth.

 

[TerpFan]

I posted the remark that dealerships should only sell service and not cars, and I stand by that philosphy. If you feel service would degrade because the dealership loss incentive to do a good job for the factory customers then you need only to look at the incentives themself. Why charge the idiot customer directly for a product that they have no true understanding what costs are involved. This where the dealer/customer relationship gets screwed up to begin with. The factory should be paying the service centers for the quality of their work, not the customers directly.

If a customer keeps coming into your center to purchase a car, have service performed, buy parts, etc. then you must be doing something right. A comment card back to the factory goes a long way. Don't put the burden onto the customer to decided how much profit a dealer desires, let the factory base incentives on how good a job they are doing for them!

Buyers of cars and car products don't really want to shop for deals and specials. They want to know the price of a car, service, or part that is the same for everyone; not just the diehard shopper. Personally, I don't want to waste time having to haggle with dealers on prices, but the current system forces me and others to do just that. If every car Pontiac sold was the same price throughout the country (delivery distance fees excluded) then you would get more customers coming into the showrooms knowing there is no hassle. Saturn has proven this works. GM needs to take the next step and make auto buying and owning easy.

 

[mceb]

Buyers of cars and car products don't really want to shop for deals and specials. They want to know the price of a car, service, or part that is the same for everyone; not just the diehard shopper. Personally, I don't want to waste time having to haggle with dealers on prices, but the current system forces me and others to do just that. If every car Pontiac sold was the same price throughout the country (delivery distance fees excluded) then you would get more customers coming into the showrooms knowing there is no hassle. Saturn has proven this works. GM needs to take the next step and make auto buying and owning easy.

:agree: hope this is the way GM is heading...no hassle buying experience

 

[cadillacricket]

Thank you for clarifying Terpfan, and yes I agree. Alow me to clarify my statement about McDonalds type sales tactics. Going on the premise that Dealerships are privately owned, and can hire whoever thay want to sell their product, my fear is that if there is no haggle pricing, that the salespeople hire at alot of dealerships will turn from being the cutthroat bastards that they are now to being people who could give a **** less about you, or your return business. I would not do this job for an hourly wage, it is too stressful. the job I do is only worth my time if I make a better wage the better I do at the job. Does this make sense?

 

[SD SOL]

To all retail operations, here's a novel idea:
Instead of marking something up way over cost only to drop the price to under invoice at the end of the year/season why not just charge a fair price all year round?

Wow - I wonder if it will catch on....

CC - in response to your comment (which I missed) you are correct, but couldn't you still work on commission based on units instead of markup?

 

[stang]

:agree: hope this is the way GM is heading...no hassle buying experience

:agree: Just think how much money dealerships would save in staffing alone.

I have purchased from CarMax and I think I spent more time on the test drive than buying the car. It was great and I would use them again in a heartbeat. :thumbs:

 

[Fformula88]

I posted the remark that dealerships should only sell service and not cars, and I stand by that philosphy. If you feel service would degrade because the dealership loss incentive to do a good job for the factory customers then you need only to look at the incentives themself. Why charge the idiot customer directly for a product that they have no true understanding what costs are involved. This where the dealer/customer relationship gets screwed up to begin with. The factory should be paying the service centers for the quality of their work, not the customers directly.

If a customer keeps coming into your center to purchase a car, have service performed, buy parts, etc. then you must be doing something right. A comment card back to the factory goes a long way. Don't put the burden onto the customer to decided how much profit a dealer desires, let the factory base incentives on how good a job they are doing for them!

Buyers of cars and car products don't really want to shop for deals and specials. They want to know the price of a car, service, or part that is the same for everyone; not just the diehard shopper. Personally, I don't want to waste time having to haggle with dealers on prices, but the current system forces me and others to do just that. If every car Pontiac sold was the same price throughout the country (delivery distance fees excluded) then you would get more customers coming into the showrooms knowing there is no hassle. Saturn has proven this works. GM needs to take the next step and make auto buying and owning easy.

:agree: Well said TerpFan. In fact, it sounds like you are touching on one of the vary reasons the "employee pricing for everyone" promotion was such a success (as well as one of the reasons for Saturn's great dealer ratings). It eliminated the messy task of finding the rebates, comparing cars, haggling prices, etc. GM settled on a "best price" and offered it straight up. People walked in, were confident it was the best price, and walked out happy. Sounds like a good way to sell cars to me!

 

[Editguy]

:agree: I know I would like it much better thaan the rebates, because I was never sure what i was really getting. I actually enjoyed the idea of just a
straight up fair price for the Solstice. If I feel the urge to haggle I can go to Mexico.