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Discussion Starter #1
I have not yet starting digging into the motor but want to disconnect the AC from the belt system to reduce HP loss. Looking quickly at some pictures I am seeing a single serpentine belt that drives all the assemblies. I am assuming that those cars without AC have a shorter belt and it should be available for ordering.

Anyone looked at this yet?

Steve
 

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There was a thread about this a while back. I asked the question, how much HP does the AC drain. No one could answer me with 100% certainty, but the best guess I got was 5 HP.

So if that's such a big deal, why did you/are you getting one with the AC? Wouldn't it make more sense to save $900 and order it without? :yesnod:
 

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Bonzo said:
There was a thread about this a while back. I asked the question, how much HP does the AC drain. No one could answer me with 100% certainty, but the best guess I got was 5 HP.

So if that's such a big deal, why did you/are you getting one with the AC? Wouldn't it make more sense to save $900 and order it without? :yesnod:
Not to mention shedding a couple 60 pounds or so.....
 

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"No one could answer me with 100% certainty, but the best guess I got was 5 HP."
If you want to prove that the power loss is inconsequential - go ahead and remove the belt and then use your fingers to spin the A/C compressor pulley.
Then, if it's possible, turn on the key and the A/C switch to engage the
compressor pulley and try to turn the pully. The compressor, as least for
radial compressors (which all are these days, I believe) rob something like
7-10 HP when running. When disengaged, the compressor pulley should rob no more power than the idler pulley on your belted accessories system. They
do make underdrive pulleys, which spin more slowly, thus spin the water pump and alternator more slowly, but I'd avoid such mods. I would fear getting stuck in traffic on a hot night with all the lights on and the cooling system starting to heat up. Since such a system would get better mileage,
I have to believe that the manufacturer would have used such a non-cost
system if it was deemed reliable. GM spent one hell of a lot of money on an
automatic trans years ago just to pick up 1/2 MPG.
 

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kingarthur said:
If you want to prove that the power loss is inconsequential - go ahead and remove the belt and then use your fingers to spin the A/C compressor pulley.
Then, if it's possible, turn on the key and the A/C switch to engage the
compressor pulley and try to turn the pully.
I know what you meant, but just for safety's sake, I thought I would clarify that you just meant to have the switch turned to on, not have the engine running. :lol: I can see the fingers flying...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
It was my understanding that the compressors were cycling even with the AC off. If so they are putting a drag on the motor. So if that is not the case then great I will not worry about changing the belt. I am going to check with some technicians and will get some more feedback and see what direction I would like to go.

Thanks all

Steve
 

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swiss said:
It was my understanding that the compressors were cycling even with the AC off. If so they are putting a drag on the motor. So if that is not the case then great I will not worry about changing the belt. I am going to check with some technicians and will get some more feedback and see what direction I would like to go.

Thanks all

Steve
Why did you order with AC?
 

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swiss said:
It was my understanding that the compressors were cycling even with the AC off. If so they are putting a drag on the motor. So if that is not the case then great I will not worry about changing the belt. I am going to check with some technicians and will get some more feedback and see what direction I would like to go.

Thanks all

Steve
If the compresser is cycling when it's off, there's something wrong. Off should be off, there would be no reason for it to cycle on.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
For those wondering, I ordered with AC so I could have it when I wanted it. It is so much easier to change belts than to install a new AC system. I installed one in my mustang when I dropped in my new engine and it was a pain in the buttt. And you know what, I still have not put the AC belt on or charged the unit. Now that I have the Solstice for the 90 degree Atlanta days I may never use the AC in the mustang I have a hard time putting up the roof on convertibles. They never seem to stay up unless the cars are in the garage.

I like options!


Steve
 

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No A/C??? Not in the West.........

EditGuy, Bet you'll never remove your A/C! :lol: It's so funny whenever I hear about getting rid of A/C. You know these guys are somewhere in the northeast. I'd like to see those guys drive in the California Desert or in Phoenix during August with No A/C! Of course we wouldn't make it through the winter on the east coast either! :lol:
 

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ntouched said:
EditGuy, Bet you'll never remove your A/C! :lol: It's so funny whenever I hear about getting rid of A/C. You know these guys are somewhere in the northeast. I'd like to see those guys drive in the California Desert or in Phoenix during August with No A/C! Of course we wouldn't make it through the winter on the east coast either! :lol:
:lol: How true. What's funny is that until I was 21 I drove a 58 Chevy pickup, no A/C, but I was too young and stupid to know how unpleasant it was. :D But you can be sure I will never go back. when the Inventory manager told me on Satturday that he would probably have a couple without A/C that I could pickup it was obvious that he was trying to sell me on them, not pushy, but just the idea that it is doable. I told him I'm too old to suffer like that. I want one really bad, but I draw the line there! If you hadn't been in such a rush to sell your second Sol, my problems would be solved!;)
 

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You'll get absolutely zero measurable increased performance from taking the belt off the compressor. The compressor uses a clutch that allows it to spin freely when the AC is off. Spinning freely, as mentioned above, takes no more hp than an idler pulley. Even if you have your AC on, the clutch disengages under full throttle. The only people who see performance improvements when deleteing AC is the people who truly delete it - by removing all the equipment. This is done to reduce weight, not free up lost motor hp.
 

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SkyCaptain said:
You'll get absolutely zero measurable increased performance from taking the belt off the compressor. The compressor uses a clutch that allows it to spin freely when the AC is off. Spinning freely, as mentioned above, takes no more hp than an idler pulley. Even if you have your AC on, the clutch disengages under full throttle. The only people who see performance improvements when deleteing AC is the people who truly delete it - by removing all the equipment. This is done to reduce weight, not free up lost motor hp.
My thoughts exactly, doing away the 60lbs of AC equipment leaves 60lbs for something else :)
 

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I don't have A/C in my 1995 Saturn.. heheheh
But I sure as hell wouldn't remove the belt that drives what takes its place either. Talk about loosing HP that would be a loss of 70 HP, No Thank you. Blower And I live in the Mojave Desert - Young and stupid I guess.

A/C doesn't cycle unless it's on. It may for defroster, but I don't know for sure. Like it's been stated the A/C clutch takes care of the load and other than the weight savings it's not a road worth traveling.

I have a 2002 with A/C so my better 1/2 drives that.
 

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scdyne said:
I don't have A/C in my 1995 Saturn.. heheheh
But I sure as hell wouldn't remove the belt that drives what takes its place either. Talk about loosing HP that would be a loss of 70 HP, No Thank you. Blower And I live in the Mojave Desert - Young and stupid I guess.

A/C doesn't cycle unless it's on. It may for defroster, but I don't know for sure. Like it's been stated the A/C clutch takes care of the load and other than the weight savings it's not a road worth traveling.

I have a 2002 with A/C so my better 1/2 drives that.
I've seen you post at cobaltss.net I believe, I think you're a supporting vendor over there too aren't you?

Did you have any plans to make Kappa addons?
 

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Editguy said:
:lol: How true. What's funny is that until I was 21 I drove a 58 Chevy pickup, no A/C, but I was too young and stupid to know how unpleasant it was. :D But you can be sure I will never go back. when the Inventory manager told me on Satturday that he would probably have a couple without A/C that I could pickup it was obvious that he was trying to sell me on them, not pushy, but just the idea that it is doable. I told him I'm too old to suffer like that. I want one really bad, but I draw the line there! If you hadn't been in such a rush to sell your second Sol, my problems would be solved!;)
:agree:
I was once young and stupid and drove a non AC car in the Calif dessert to work everyday thinking I was saving gas, when I was really just making cannibal stew.
 

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swiss said:
It was my understanding that the compressors were cycling even with the AC off. If so they are putting a drag on the motor. So if that is not the case then great I will not worry about changing the belt. I am going to check with some technicians and will get some more feedback and see what direction I would like to go.

Thanks all

Steve
on my truck and Monte Carlo the only times the compressor is cycling is when you use the air or defroster/defogger setting for the heating system, and the compressor will engage anytime the defog or recirculate is selected even if the AC button is not pushed...
 

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brentil said:
I've seen you post at cobaltss.net I believe, I think you're a supporting vendor over there too aren't you?

Did you have any plans to make Kappa addons?
Uh, yes,
The shorty-header is waiting for a dyno to validate numbers and a true long header is waiting for final fit testing and dyno.(-Need a car-) Plus, I plan to strap a blower to one as soon as I get a victim - I mean test vehicle.
I boost engine dyno motors with blowers (instead of a turbo) and have been putting BD-11s on ECOTECs since 2000 when I got a hold of a few motors to test. Since then I have hashed out all the details, but held off because GM was going to release the LSJ. Now that the LSJ isn’t standard on the kappa (to my surprise) it’s a perfect place for one. I have had a 2.4 for a while, just the motor, and have done some testing both for the headers and for the S/C. Only problem is that it’s all with a F.A.S.T. and no accurate VVT control so I don’t have any data to validate with the way the PCM controls the engine.
 

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To bad you guys are not near Florida, I wanted ATI to use my car for one of their S/C, but they said NO. Here we have someone else that likes S/C and his shop is in So CA. :brentil:
 
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