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vlevick said:
If I change my springs to the Eibachs, do I then need to have the car re-alligned?

Only if you want the car to handle properly and not wear out a set of tires in a few thousand miles.

In other words...YES. But find some place that has a clue how to do a performance 4 wheel alignment. Check with local Miata or BMW people.
 

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If you take apart balljoints or tie rod ends to get the spring off, then yes, you should.

But, I have changed springs without needing an alignment. If you can take off the lower control arm from back at the frame and get the spring out, and then get it back in again, some cars won't need an alignment. No idea if you can do that with a Kappa, though.
 

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SkyCaptain said:
But, I have changed springs without needing an alignment.
I've always found that an interesting statement.

Unless the handling and tire wear are atrocious the only way you can know the car "needs" an alignment before problems occur, is to put it on an alignment rack.

Lowering a car will change the camber and toe. Front and rear.

Factory alignments are notoriously bad (all factory). Most are +/- 1 degree which may be fine for the average family sedan but terrible for a sportscar. The loose tolerances listed by the factory are why you need to find a quality alignment shop. Using the factory specs you could have a camber set like this |--\ and still be "in-spec". A good tech will take the time to match both sides.

The car should be aligned, weighted the way you will drive it most of the time. That means weighted with a driver and passenger or just the driver. A good shop will let you sit in the car or uses weights to simulate a driver/passenger being in the car.

You would be amazed how a properly aligned suspension can transform a car, handling wise.

Just my 2¢.
 

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LBJay said:
Only if you want the car to handle properly and not wear out a set of tires in a few thousand miles.

In other words...YES. But find some place that has a clue how to do a performance 4 wheel alignment. Check with local Miata or BMW people.
Would expect some guidance from the Kappasphere folks on this as well then, no? ;)
 

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In a word...

Yes. Shop around. I got a 4 wheel alignment done for less than $80. The challenge will be what numbers to use because the shops probably will not have data for the Solstice.
 

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JetBlackE31 said:
Yes. Shop around. I got a 4 wheel alignment done for less than $80. The challenge will be what numbers to use because the shops probably will not have data for the Solstice.
Not true. Specs for servicing the Solstice are sent to dealers well in advance as are training modules. Go to a Pontiac or other facility that uses a new Hunter alignment machine. They are marvelously accurate. You may also want to wait until the Feb. Grassroots Motorsports Magazine comes out as they will likely provide some performance enhancing alignment specs.
 

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If you change the carrying height of the car, you should re-align it. LBJay is right, changing carrying height changes toe, camber and caster.

If you change ONLY the spring rates, but leave the carrying height the same, you should not need to re-align it - provided you have not disturbed the bushing attachments where the control arms attach to the body.

BE VERY CAREFUL where you get your car aligned. Many quickie places actually suck mightily when aligning vehicles.

I've been told that the Kappas do have some extra adjustments that MUST be properly aligned (in the rear suspension), and not setting them properly WILL mess up your handling. It's not just camber and toe in the rear.

I have yet to take apart a suspension at the ball joints and have to re-align it - and I have done this many times. When you take apart a suspension at the ball joint and then put it back together, the geometry (if your alignment is correct to start with) will not be affected. Even the toe remains the same.

HOWEVER, it takes a teeny bit of movement in the reassembly of a lower control arm where it attaches to the body to throw off the toe a lot. IF you take apart the suspension by loosening the bushings, then you SHOULD re-align it. If you mark the bolt adjuster cams, you should only have to re-align the toe.

For example - front suspension 1988 Fiero - if I separate the upper or lower ball joint, and put it back together without changing the carrying height (say I was making a shock change), I don't need to re-align it.

BUT, if I go to the 1988 Fiero rear suspension, loosen the knuckle at the lateral link attachments, take it apart and put it back together, I've had to re-do the toe nearly 80% of the time. (additionally, and non-related to the Kappa, strut suspensions are a different sort, and most of them are set up to be reassembled without slop at the strut-to-knuckle joint - so you can remove the strut assembly and replace it without realignment also).
 

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LBJay said:
I've always found that an interesting statement.

Unless the handling and tire wear are atrocious the only way you can know the car "needs" an alignment before problems occur, is to put it on an alignment rack.
:rolleyes:

Or by measuring the alignment specs yourself... duh. You really need to stop "correcting" me. I feel like I've got a stalker. Next time you feel like calling me on a technical issue, you need to realize that I do all my work myself. If I say I've done it, then you can guarantee I've done it right. And you can be damn sure that if some monkey at pep-boys can align a car, or measure alignment specs, that I can do it in my sleep.

Good day.
 

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SkyCaptain said:
You really need to stop "correcting" me.
It ain't about you. Bad advice is bad advice.

And you can be damn sure that if some monkey at pep-boys can align a car, or measure alignment specs, that I can do it in my sleep.
That's why I specifically said to find a shop that can do a performance alignment because except in rare cases the "monkeys" at pep-boys don't have a clue.

Also strange is that SM correctly contradicts what you say and yet you seem to want to single out me.... Hmmmmm
 

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LBJay said:
It ain't about you. Bad advice is bad advice.
And where, pray tell, did I give bad advice? I didn't tell anybody to skip an alignment - I related my own EXPERIENCE of changing springs and not needing an alignment afterwards.

Don't call me a liar again, please and thank you very much.

That's why I specifically said to find a shop that can do a performance alignment because except in rare cases the "monkeys" at pep-boys don't have a clue.
And you implied that I didn't have a clue as well. It doesn't takes some kind of engineering degree to align a car, or to just check it.

Also strange is that SM correctly contradicts what you say and yet you seem to want to single out me.... Hmmmmm
Where does he contradict me? He says you gotta be careful when doing what I did. He never says I didn't do it. It takes about 30 seconds to google directions on how to check your alignment at home. The facts are that I did change my springs, and I did check the alignment afterwards, and absolutely nothing needed changed in the aligmnent when I did it. I've been driving on that change for 20k+ miles now - no handling or wear problems at all.


EDIT: I removed all the nasty talk. LBJay, I suggest you put me on your ignore list, because if you try to bash me again, we're gonna have a problem.
 

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SolsticeMan said:
If you change the carrying height of the car, you should re-align it. LBJay is right, changing carrying height changes toe, camber and caster.
Funny, I don't see where LBJay says anything at all about carrying height... The only thing he said was "Unless the handling and tire wear are atrocious the only way you can know the car "needs" an alignment before problems occur, is to put it on an alignment rack." Which is 100% incorrect, since that is not the only way you can know if the car needs an alignment. If either of you wish, I can locate the links on the DIY method of checking your alignment (which does not require an alignment rack).

But hey, we all have our loyalties... :rolleyes:

For example - front suspension 1988 Fiero - if I separate the upper or lower ball joint, and put it back together without changing the carrying height (say I was making a shock change), I don't need to re-align it.
You don't need to undo anything in the suspension to change shocks on an 88 Fiero - or any fiero for that matter. Until LBJay forced the issue, I wasn't going to say anything. But statements like these, and many other things you've said wrong about Fieros, again makes me question whether you've actually ever owned one. But you already know that since I've said as much in PMs to you. But at least LBJay won't feel singled out now. Maybe he'll stop crying and following me around to try and prove me wrong on some tiny esoteric detail....
 

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Again, an insult/bash from you. :rolleyes:
At least you're consistent.

Yeah, I have a problem with clueless people bashing me for my experiences, while being absolutely clueless about the truth of the matter. Most people have that problem. I suggest you get used to it, because you show no signs of improvement.

Tell me again how a V8 won't fit. :rolleyes:
Tell me again how a V6 won't fit. :rolleyes:
Tell me again how all pedal mechanisms are made of plastic. :rolleyes:
Tell me again how putting a car on a rack is the only way to check your alignment. :rolleyes:

Bonus: Tell me again how a fiero needs to take apart it's suspension to change a shock.

The list goes on and on...

I stand by my statements on this topic based on extensive experience. If you undo any mechanical connections to the knuckle, you will almost always need to have an alignment. If you undo the control arm at the frame mounts, you probably need to have an alignment. Either way, if you educate yourself on the topic (a very easy thing in the internet world) anybody with two hands, two eyes, and two brain cells can check to see if they need an alignment before they blow $60+ at the alignment shop.
 

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SkyCaptain said:
Tell me again how a V8 won't fit. :rolleyes:
Tell me again how a V6 won't fit. :rolleyes:
Tell me again how all pedal mechanisms are made of plastic. :rolleyes:
Tell me again how putting a car on a rack is the only way to check your alignment. :rolleyes:

Bonus: Tell me again how a fiero needs to take apart it's suspension to change a shock. .
Once again you are confused. Show me my posts you are referring to.

Pedals??? plastic????

Fiero????

V8, V6 ??????
 

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No, you are the one who is confused.

That is a partial list of technical issues that I have been "called on", not necessarily by you.


Tell me again how putting a car on a rack is the only way to check your alignment.
THAT is the one in the list that applies directly to you and this topic. You "called" me on it and I put it back in you. You said the only way to check alignment was to put it on a rack, which is, in fact, WRONG.

Now stop leg humping me. And yes, we now have a problem.
 

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SkyCaptain said:
That is a partial list of technical issues that I have been "called on", not necessarily by you.
Frankly, l I don't give a damn what other people have called you on. If you direct you comments at me then they better damn well be regarding my post.

My post was
Unless the handling and tire wear are atrocious the only way you can know the car "needs" an alignment before problems occur, is to put it on an alignment rack.
"Put it on an alignment rack" as in have the alignment checked. Whether you have it done or string the car yourself, the point remains. If you alter the suspension, it needs to be checked.
 

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LBJay said:
Frankly, l I don't give a damn what other people have called you on. If you direct you comments at me then they better damn well be regarding my post.
What? Too stupid to make the connection when the fiero comment was made by SM in this very thread? That's YOUR problem, not mine. I suggest if you have a problem with figuring out where comments are directed, you better school-up on your reading comprehension.

My post was


"Put it on an alignment rack" as in have the alignment checked. Whether you have it done or string the car yourself, the point remains. If you alter the suspension, it needs to be checked.
Yeah, in response to my post where it was pretty clear I did it myself, your post is unmistakeably anti-DIY and pro-"put it on a rack". You can try to back-pedal out of this issue all you want. It doesn't change the fact that you were WRONG. Now go play in the general section, fool.
 

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SkyCaptain said:
Yeah, in response to my post where it was pretty clear I did it myself, your post is unmistakeably anti-DIY and pro-"put it on a rack".
???
Unless the handling and tire wear are atrocious the only way you can know the car "needs" an alignment before problems occur, is to put it on an alignment rack.
Show me one, anti-DIY remark in that statement.



You have some real problems.... :rolleyes:
 

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WTF dude. It's all there. 2 pages of me saying you don't have to put it on the rack & you can DIY. 2 pages of you disagreeing with me. You and Flip-Flop-Kerry should run for pres. and vice-pres. of stupidworld. Everybody is laughing at you.
 
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