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Discussion Starter #1
To all you GXP owners;

Had this code pop up when CEL appeared. Checked with my tester and found it was the MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure) that was not functioning properly. Could be a bad sensor, bad vacuum hose, bad electrical connection. So did some investigating. Pulled the sensor out and observation told me it was possibly because the o-ring seal was dried (but still resilient) and allowed some intermittent leakage.

Background: Applied some silicone grease to the o-ring, reinstalled the sensor and took a ride. The car ran beautifully!! Is it fixed? Time will tell, but for now all is well.

Background: Had some intermittent running problems in the last couple of months that seemed to straighten out, but was temporary. One was the car would idle a bit roughly on startup and then smooth out - drove OK. Secondly the car would indicate no boost, but seemed to have boost. After awhile (car warmed up to normal temp) boost would appear again, especially after shutting it down and restarting - all OK again. Next and most recent indication of boost problem occurred while in cruise on level roadway and the car began to surge and boost would jump to 1, 2,3, or 4lbs boost as well as doing the same thing while holding steady throttle with my lead foot. This just showed up today. Heating and expansion of the o-ring may have been giving the intermittent operation.

So reading about the possible cause the indication was maybe the MAP sensor, etc. You've read my probable fix, which had not been suggested in the write-up I came across.

Have fun with the cars. Maybe this will be helpful to someone else.

grandpop07
 

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Are you using the GMPP sensors? Are they soldered or crimped? Chances are your issue isn't fixed. When you pulled the sensor you "reconnected" the crimped wiring....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
sensor for MAP

Are you using the GMPP sensors? Are they soldered or crimped? Chances are your issue isn't fixed. When you pulled the sensor you "reconnected" the crimped wiring....
Not sure about your question. The sensor is bolted into the intake and the wiring is through a connecter (2 wires). The vacuum tubing is actually a plastic preformed line. I am quite comfortable that the problem I described has been alleviated by what I found and did to correct it. Will let all know if it returns anytime soon.

Thanks for your comment.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
GMPP sensors?

Are you using the GMPP sensors? Are they soldered or crimped? Chances are your issue isn't fixed. When you pulled the sensor you "reconnected" the crimped wiring....
I think you misunderstood my post to be talking about the upgraded sensors in the turbo tubing used along with the GMPP programing change for the horsepower/torque increase. There is only one (1) MAP (Manifold Atmospheric Pressure) sensor that bolts into the intake manifold itself on the driver's side near the back of the engine.

I installed the sensors that you are referring to. I did not remove the original connectors, but rather used "tap" connectors rather than cutting the wiring and in-line splice connectors. This was done 3 years ago and have not had any issues with failing connections to date.


grandpop07
 

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I think you misunderstood my post to be talking about the upgraded sensors in the turbo tubing used along with the GMPP programing change for the horsepower/torque increase. There is only one (1) MAP (Manifold Atmospheric Pressure) sensor that bolts into the intake manifold itself on the driver's side near the back of the engine.

I installed the sensors that you are referring to. I did not remove the original connectors, but rather used "tap" connectors rather than cutting the wiring and in-line splice connectors. This was done 3 years ago and have not had any issues with failing connections to date.


grandpop07
I think you are confusing the names of the sensors...that's why I misunderstood. The 2 sensors you replaced with the GMPP tune are both called MAP sensors. One in the cold side IC piping, and one on the intake manifold. Together they measure loss between them to make sure there is no leaking. Unless there's a sensor I'm just now learning about. I think you are thinking the one in the IC piping is the MAF, it's not. The MAF is located by your airfilter and measures the air flowing in before the turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
confusion reigns

I think you are confusing the names of the sensors...that's why I misunderstood. The 2 sensors you replaced with the GMPP tune are both called MAP sensors. One in the cold side IC piping, and one on the intake manifold. Together they measure loss between them to make sure there is no leaking. Unless there's a sensor I'm just now learning about. I think you are thinking the one in the IC piping is the MAF, it's not. The MAF is located by your airfilter and measures the air flowing in before the turbo.
Ghost, Please look up the P0106 code, which when it appears has thrown a CEL that will not clear and stay clear until you address the MAP sensor issue which is what I did. When the other problem with the bad/intermittent electrical connection
/connections occurs, the engine will eventually go into "limp" mode reducing power. See my first post that describes what occurred when the MAP sensor problem reared it's ugly head - the engine was speeding up and falling back to normal whether in cruise or steady throttle by foot - no loss of power. The other point is that the MAP sensor has a vacuum line to it, the sensors you are citing do not. The replacement sensors you refer to are Bosch, as supplied by GM in the GMPP upgrade. My MAP sensor is still the original for the car and is an entirely different configuration and mounts on the intake manifold, not the turbo tubing. I really can't explain it much differently.

Hope this helps to clarify the original post that I submitted.
 

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Replace the map sensor with a genuine gm part. My friend had same issue and we cleaned censor, no change, then we put a auto parts sensor in but the didn’t fix the problem. Finally we bought a gm map sensor and bingo it worked!!
 

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The other point is that the MAP sensor has a vacuum line to it, the sensors you are citing do not.
Then this is not a MAP sensor you touched! There are 2 MAP sensors, as I stated. There is NO vacuum line to a MAP sensor....or the MAF sensor for that matter. I think you are referring to the vapor cansitor purge valve that sits just in front of the MAP sensor on the intake manifold. Please see this post: https://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f59/intermittent-p0101-p0106-66212/ I included some pics. The items with redlines/circles to them are the MAP sensors. I believe the item you touched was the one circled in yellow. This is the vapor canister purge valve. It has NOTHING to do with boost. I believe what happed was when you removed it, your MAP sensor wires were moved just enough to reconnect. They need to be soldered instead of spliced, if they are still spliced.

Now onto the other statement that you made. There are 2 modes to the CEL. When it's iluminated, the vehicle will stay in limp mode till its cleared or x number of starts when it will clear itself. The second mode to our vehicles is what is called "pending" mode. What happens in that mode is that the ECM has detected a certain condition for x number of seconds. It will reduce your boost a little bit, but will not put the car in "limp" mode. So as an example of mine when my HPFP was going. I normally see 23psi of boost at WOT. When mine would "pend" I would only get 16 or 17psi. Your vehicle will stay in "pending" mode until 1 of 3 criteria is met.
1. pending mode CEL is reset
2. 30 minutes of driving has occured with no recurring issue
3. 5 ignition cycles (I believe the engine must be at operating temp for 1 minute during each cycle)

As a side note, your ECM stores every single CEL code your car has ever had, cleared or not, and only GM engineers can read these
Also, your ECM tracks how many times the ECM has been rewritten with a tune, and again, only a GM engineer can read that.....

I hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
MAP sensor replacement

Replace the map sensor with a genuine gm part. My friend had same issue and we cleaned censor, no change, then we put a auto parts sensor in but the didn’t fix the problem. Finally we bought a gm map sensor and bingo it worked!!
Yes, I think it's wise to use the GM replacement parts as well. Mine did not need to be replaced at this time.

For Ghost: The MAP sensor I'm talking about is located about 2-3 inches behind the oil dipstick and a little forward of the manifold sensor you referred to and is midway on the intake casting and is a vertical unit not horizontal.

If you will go on line asking for 2009 solstice code 0106 meaning there will be some very good writeups about the MAP sensor replacement procedure.

I've been driving and working on these cars since 2008. Had a 2007 GXP stick and presently have a 2009 auto. Love them both.


Hope this helps,

grandpop07
 

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There are definitely two MAP sensors and one MAF sensor on the GXP. None of them have vacuum hoses connected to them.

The MAP sensors both have o-rings around their respective vacuum nipples. One goes directly into the intake pipe and the other goes directly into the intake manifold. No vacuum hoses. The only thing I've seen in that area that resembles a sensor and has vacuum lines is the bypass valve.

In the picture below, the poorly-placed "MAP #2" label refers to the piece with the blue and white label, NOT the evap purge solenoid next to it. (Which is black with the hard plastic hose connecting to the top.)



Also, just for completeness, there's a third CEL mode: flashing wildly. That indicates a misfire and you will lose about 90% power, get zero boost, and should probably pull over as soon as safely possible.
 

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The point wasn't to make a big deal out of this. It's just useful to keep the information in the threads as correct as possible for the benefit of future readers who may be trying to fix a related issue.

Thanks for the post. :)
 

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I misspoke above and meant MAF to replace. Sorry my figure printed wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
maybe more controversy will ensue with this post

Raygun,

Thank you for a correction of a misnomer on my part. End of controversy.

granpop07
I know now that the sensor I was calling a MAP is the Purge solenoid. What I did to the o-ring made it seal and took care of the problem I described and I think I know why - maybe. Muddying the waters here.

The purge solenoid plugs into the intake manifold, just as does one of the MAPs. If there is atmospheric (barometric ) pressure leakage around the o-ring this would affect the pressure that the MAP is seeing in the manifold. Therefor the stoichiometric balance has been upset, albeit intermittently. There is a stoichiometric parameter built into the engine design (as in all engines, but the carbureted engines are not computer controlled and the main effect is on gas mileage, not running), ideally 14.7 to 1. There is probably a certain range of variableness that is compensated for when changing altitudes that is taken care of in the programing of the turbo system and no programing allowance for a leak in the intake manifold affecting what the intake manifold MAP sees. An engineer would have to provide this kind of information.

I have worked on many carbed cars over the years and rebuilt many carbs, especially the Rochester 2GCs and Carter AFBs as used in the early tripower Pontiacs up through the 60s and into the early 70s Rochester 4 bbls. I particularly specialized in the multi carbed setups. Been doing this stuff more than 65 years. Not so much anymore though except for personal friends.

Again, just 'muddying' the water or atmosphere.

grandpop07
 

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Discussion Starter #15
UPDATE on my repair

I think you misunderstood my post to be talking about the upgraded sensors in the turbo tubing used along with the GMPP programing change for the horsepower/torque increase. There is only one (1) MAP (Manifold Atmospheric Pressure) sensor that bolts into the intake manifold itself on the driver's side near the back of the engine.

I installed the sensors that you are referring to. I did not remove the original connectors, but rather used "tap" connectors rather than cutting the wiring and in-line splice connectors. This was done 3 years ago and have not had any issues with failing connections to date.


grandpop07

I promised an update on my "repair" results. Since I simply removed the Purge solenoid and applied a little silicone grease to the o-ring the car has been running great - no problems, no CELs, etc.. My simple fix has obviously worked, so don't discount the efficacy of doing the simple things. Note this in your playbooks as a possibility to alleviating the P0106 code.


Enjoy the cars,

grandpop07
 

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Discussion Starter #16
reaired - followup re. quote

To all you GXP owners;

Had this code pop up when CEL appeared. Checked with my tester and found it was the MAP (manifold atmospheric pressure) that was not functioning properly. Could be a bad sensor, bad vacuum hose, bad electrical connection. So did some investigating. Pulled the sensor out and observation told me it was possibly because the o-ring seal was dried (but still resilient) and allowed some intermittent leakage.

Background: Applied some silicone grease to the o-ring, reinstalled the sensor and took a ride. The car ran beautifully!! Is it fixed? Time will tell, but for now all is well.

Background: Had some intermittent running problems in the last couple of months that seemed to straighten out, but was temporary. One was the car would idle a bit roughly on startup and then smooth out - drove OK. Secondly the car would indicate no boost, but seemed to have boost. After awhile (car warmed up to normal temp) boost would appear again, especially after shutting it down and restarting - all OK again. Next and most recent indication of boost problem occurred while in cruise on level roadway and the car began to surge and boost would jump to 1, 2,3, or 4lbs boost as well as doing the same thing while holding steady throttle with my lead foot. This just showed up today. Heating and expansion of the o-ring may have been giving the intermittent operation.

So reading about the possible cause the indication was maybe the MAP sensor, etc. You've read my probable fix, which had not been suggested in the write-up I came across.

Have fun with the cars. Maybe this will be helpful to someone else.

grandpop07
Well, folks, it has been several months now since I described my apparent fix for the problem that I at first thought was a map sensor, but was actually the purge solenoid - specifically turned out to be a leak past the O-ring seal. The 'fix' I described has obviously actually fixed the problem (putting silicone grease on the o-ring). The car has never run better! I guess the crux of the story is don't overlook seemingly small stuff. It's possible that some may have changed out parts (i.e. purge solenoid or MAP sensors with new O-rings) that 'fixed' the problem, but may actually have been fixable just by applying some grease to the O-ring.

I hope you are all enjoying your cars this summer!

grandpop07 (82 years young)
 

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Well Grandpop...after re-reading this....I decided Sunday to pull my MAP sensors. Unfortunately I didn't have any silicon grease. After putting them back in, I noticed that my vibration wasn't as bad as it was... So today, I ordered new o-rings for my MAP sensors. I will report back when I find out if this was truly the issue. I have done research on the Cobalt forum because they have higher mileages on their cars and quite a few replace their MAP o-rings about every 2 to 3 years because they get cracks after being under load so long...I'll report back soon!!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
o-ring replacement

Well Grandpop...after re-reading this....I decided Sunday to pull my MAP sensors. Unfortunately I didn't have any silicon grease. After putting them back in, I noticed that my vibration wasn't as bad as it was... So today, I ordered new o-rings for my MAP sensors. I will report back when I find out if this was truly the issue. I have done research on the Cobalt forum because they have higher mileages on their cars and quite a few replace their MAP o-rings about every 2 to 3 years because they get cracks after being under load so long...I'll report back soon!!
Maybe a regular replacement of these O-rings might be in order? We now have a lot of history with these cars/turbos, etc. The factory guys did not have all of this.

I worked a good number of years in the petroleum industry and have a lot of experience as a technician. We found that the older buna-n rubber compound to be totally unsatisfactory for gasoline, especially after the introduction of ethanol in the equation - whether in a static or moving configuration. The development of the viton compound did a good job of extending the life of O-rings, but over time wear and heat in the use of that compound in either a moving or static application takes its toll on that material as well. So, maintenance/replacement is necessary from time to time. I hope this may be helpful for some who may have some doubts about what transpired when I had the problem with the o-ring on the purge solenoid and what I did to fix the problem. Albeit this, too, is only temporary. Have fun with and enjoy the cars, guys and gals!

grandpop07
 

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Maybe a regular replacement of these O-rings might be in order? We now have a lot of history with these cars/turbos, etc. The factory guys did not have all of this.

I worked a good number of years in the petroleum industry and have a lot of experience as a technician. We found that the older buna-n rubber compound to be totally unsatisfactory for gasoline, especially after the introduction of ethanol in the equation - whether in a static or moving configuration. The development of the viton compound did a good job of extending the life of O-rings, but over time wear and heat in the use of that compound in either a moving or static application takes its toll on that material as well. So, maintenance/replacement is necessary from time to time. I hope this may be helpful for some who may have some doubts about what transpired when I had the problem with the o-ring on the purge solenoid and what I did to fix the problem. Albeit this, too, is only temporary. Have fun with and enjoy the cars, guys and gals!

grandpop07
Well...the one on the intake manifold I replaced as "peeling". It had pieces coming off of it...so I think maybe this needs to be a possibility. Mine were about 4.5 years old...and who knows how long they were in a warehouse before I got them. I did replace them with silicone rather then rubber as it was more pliable.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
bad o-rings

Well...the one on the intake manifold I replaced as "peeling". It had pieces coming off of it...so I think maybe this needs to be a possibility. Mine were about 4.5 years old...and who knows how long they were in a warehouse before I got them. I did replace them with silicone rather then rubber as it was more pliable.
Your car was definitely experiencing a bypass of the o-ring which was giving the MAP sensor bad information as to absolute manifold pressure. Rough idling at startup and probably poor running after warmup affected boost and regular running characteristics. Glad that my experience and problem solving was helpful to you and hopefully others. Drive on!!

grandpop07
 
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