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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
If I did not post this in the proper thread could one of the moderators please move it to the one that it belongs in.

There has been an increase in counterfeit products being made in China over the past decade. It is not just fashion products or expensive products. Just about anything and everything is being counterfeited these days. From fashion to bearings to the aftermarket performance auto parts industry it's happening all over the place.

Every single aftermarket product purchased is going to need to be checked for the validity of the product. If you are buying a "to good to be true" item, guess what it is too good to be true because chances are it is a counterfeit.

I want everyone to keep in mind that if you have gotten a counterfeit part from a reputable vendor don't fly off the handle at them. There is a really good chance they didn't know it was counterfeit and will do everything they can to make it right. It is illegal to sell counterfeit items and I do not think that a reputable vendor will want to be in that kind of a mess. So be nice and explain what is going on and also provide the proof that what you have been sent is counterfeit. Getting mean and nasty is not going to get anyone anywhere, and it sure isn't going to make the vendor want to help rectify the issue.

If anyone has received any counterfeit products could you post the following information

date of purchase
manufacturer name
model number
serial number
cost
vendor name
vendor outcome
validity test (proof)

This is not a pity party for those that have gotten counterfeit products. This is to inform people of what products are being counterfeited and also how to spot the items. It is also going to let us know what vendors are doing to correct the problem. If you bought a "too good to be true" item you will probably get some flack for it especially if you got it on an auction website or the like.

People need to use their brains and do some homework if buying from an unknown vendor. If a company does not have a phone number or an address on their website DO NOT BUY FROM THEM. Google maps has an awesome thing called street view, look up the address if there is one on the website. See if the place actually exists. Another thing you can do is a whois on the website it's self, you can check when the website was made and how long they have the name for. If you see that it was just made and they will only have the name for a year DO NOT BUY FROM THEM!. You can also search for the company name with the words "scam" after it. Most times you will not be the first one to be bitten and you will find information about it.

The first thing is to give the vendor the benefit of the doubt, be nice to them PLEASE! .. It always sucks to have this kind of thing happen and I am pretty confident that the vendors that are a members of this forum will make it right.

--Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter #2
date of purchase: 7/15/20
manufacturer: TiAL
model number: MV-S (waste gate)
serial number: SN03091178
cost: 275.00
vendor name: Werks
vendor outcome: Pending
validity test (proof):

The packaging it came in made me start to question the product. I didn't know if maybe I had been sent an open box item. What I got was wrapped in paper and placed in a white USPS box. No documentation at all.

I went onto TiAL's website where they have listed what the contents are supposed to be and discovered a bunch of things missing. They also included a photo of the product in it's original packaging, this is not what I had gotten. This made me lean more to the possibility that I had gotten an open box item. I looked at the waste gate some more and I noticed a large number of scratches all over the place including the valve and other areas that could not have gotten scratched unless the product had been completely disassembled. There was also some kind of a white sealant that didn't look correct either. I did a google search for TiAL and quality and a YouTube video popped up about counterfeit TiAL waste gates.. In the video they did a side by side of a counterfeit and an authentic. They pointed out the differences, every single difference the video pointed out mine had!!!

I then did a search specifically for TiAL Counterfeit waste gates, low and behold TiAL has a web page dedicated to this on their website. They have have a list of known counterfeit serial numbers and guess what.. Mine was in that list.

If anyone has a TiAL waste gate installed into their vehicle they need to go and check if it is a legit product. you can verify that your serial number is not in this list for starters.

This is not something you should wait to do. the waste gate controls the turbine speed and if the thing goes out of sorts you can end up with a blown motor

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Here is more proof.

The teal circle is where the valve should be. This is bad machining
108965


same photo as above. you can see how far off the valve is in this photo
108966


The body and all clamps are supposed to be 316 stainless steel
I didn't know magnets stuck to 316 stainless steel.. HMMM....
108967
108968
 

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Good thread

Electronics in particular are a huge concern. Many components are 'reclaimed'; there's an entire cottage industry in which dirt-wage people destroy their health with chemical exposure by salvaging electronic components and then re-selling them to companies that sell as new..
 

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There have been threads posted on this problem in the past goodreads . Not only am I a Solstice guy but have been involved in the hot rod ,motorcycle community for years and this has been an ongoing problem .My advice buy from a reputable vendor they know where their products come from . Ask questions when buying something , I was restoring the Chevelle and started rebuilding the suspension I called many manufacturers and asked where their products were made I was surprised how much stuff is made in China even Moog .Believe it or not Taiwan and Japan produce some quality products because they have quality control in place .I will not buy Chinese crap if at all possible these are the same people who have ruined are economy thanks to coronavirus !Hot Rod magazine I believe it was the September or October 2013 (have to check my back issues ) had a great article on this subject and how to spot the fakes . Ebay and Amazon are other vendors where this crap is dumped off ,just know who you are buying from and do some homework .
 

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...The body and all clamps are supposed to be 316 stainless steel
I didn't know magnets stuck to 316 stainless steel.. HMMM....
Cast 316SS - which these parts clearly are - is magnetic. And not really 316.
 

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my brother got a set of roller lifters form a ebay vender saying they were melling... they were not melling. he contacted melling and they said they had a pile of them there that had been returned to them. he started a case agnist the seller with ebay. and melling wanted all the info witch he gave them.I dont know where it went from there. it was for a new style hemi dodge. there are many counter fits out there and not always name brand stuff. I ordered a new 6"dia lathe chuck, a china brand that was supposed to be good high quality brand, I got a no name china chuck....I was refunded and kept the chuck and rebuilt it. I ordered another chuck, this time I ordered a 4 jaw chuck of the same name brand from same vender it was the better brand and the quality was oh so much better. even china knock offs have knockoffs witch too have knockoffs.
 

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in the air cooled old vw comunity most everything comes from china. a little from usa( very little) and south america witch is probably going away due to the china crap. there are many venders of all this stuff. 1 big vender is california import parts 1 ( CIP1)...based in... canada. they list the name brands and send knock offs of knock offs knocked off by the cheepest knockeroffer on most items...and how many people can spot the knock off parts?? not many. I have never seen so much pure crap in my life that they send.unbelievable if I hadn't seen it first hand on many occasions. fancy H beam connecting rods with 8mm rod bolt holes and fake ARP bolts that are barely 7mm......how many clueless people put them togeather? 4340 forged cromoly stroker cranks by name brand... and you receive a 4110 crank thats a bad knock off... and oh somuch more. the china parts are extremely good if they are the name brand that you think they are.( some a little better than the other) but the knockoffs are horendious. Ive been in racing& performance my whole life ( mostly big hp big v8 stuff)I know whats what.but 90% of the people do not. there are a few top quality aircooled vw companys.and oh so many not so good ones. suspect everything that you get.and inspect it real well and make it ready for it's intended usage.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@marksbug

You are correct. It is incredible how bad it is getting with this kind of crap. A lot of manufacturers allow you to order directly from them now because of this kind of thing. It is the only way to ensure that the customer is getting a quality part. If counterfeit product ends up killing someone's engine and the person doesn't know well enough they are going to blame the counterfeited part for the issue. This kind of thing can kill a company. But you also do have companies that will always try and save a penny and end up supplying people with gear that is not what the company claims it is. There are a large number of manufacturers out there that claim 316 stainless. Use a high power neodymium magnet like I did and you would be really shocked at how many parts the thing sticks to when it shouldn't. You can also use that same magnet as a way to gauge how "dirty" the stainless is. In the case of this TiAL waste gate is was horrible. In the photo of the v-band clamp being picked up, I used a manufactured magnet and it was hard to get it to pick the thing up. using the neodymium it sucked the thing up without ever having to even touch it.

The neodymium magnets can be bought at just about any big box hardware store. they are in the fasteners/hardware isle usually above the drawers of specialty bolts hanging up. They are called "super magnets" cost about 5 bucks for 3 of them. Be careful with them and DO NOT place them anywhere near electronic devices. and do not let the magnets slap together either, they will shatter throwing bits and pieces all over the place. If you are going to place them one something you do not want to scratch be sure to put a cloth down first. If you put one magnet on one side of your hand and another on the other side they will not fall off. I have done with through a piece of 3/4" wood as well.

Having good magnets like this are essential when wanting to test authenticity of a part that is made from stainless steel.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
@phil1734

I apologize for my ignorance/not thinking.

I did know that cast is "slightly" magnetic. This waste gate does not fall into the slightly magnetic category. If i put a magnet down on the desk an inch away it will pull right onto the cast "stainless" body with force. This should not happen with 316 cast stainless.

If we get technical with this, TiAL is advertising their product as something it is not. They state that their waste gates have a 316ss housing. This is not factual, The bodies of their waste gates are made from a material called CF8M, which has similiar characteristics to 316ss. Tho it may have similiar properties it does not make it 316ss.
 

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heating /welding as well as bending SS from what Ive found can cause a magnet to attract to the SS. mercruiser used to make SS exhaust manifold risers/elbow outlet. I do not know what grade but magnet won't stick to the ones I tested. almost every one of those risers had to be welded somewhere due to the thin casting and somebody knot doing somting right. the stoped making them after a few years.replacement risers are a big business in salt water environments and the ss ones last forever, so...in the end they lost sailes of replacement's for the cast irons that had a short life in salt water.
One thing should be addressed. just because it is a "knock off" or sold under the oe # does not mean it's a counterfeit. counterfeits are sold as that manufactures item usually in crude boxes with crude labeling that just looks cheep. or even looks like the right boxes&labeling.remember it's the part that counts not the box. I bought new iridum plugs for my sol....nippon brand. only about $18 a set...thats cheep.the boxes looked like the printer was running out of ink.or cheep labeling for manufactures not consumers..I dont have a clue if they are knock offs or not. they seem to work just fine as frogs hair for over a year now. 1 will add 1 more thing:eek: on after market parts peaces ...I do not trust china sensors.(like camshaft position sensors or crank sensors stuff like that) but the "hard parts" are usually fine. with that said I would rather get all cloyes or melling timing chain sets than the ultra cheep china stuff. and remember they make what the price point is ..if somebody wants cheeper....thay make it cheeper....but those cheeper parts may also be sold at the higher prices by some sellers.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@marksbug

You are correct about the packaging and that it can be "faked" as well. But it is a good play to start looking. There is usually some mistake made on it. Right now in the USA doctors offices, dental offices and the like are buying up KN95 masks. N95 masks are difficult to get and are also really expensive. The issue with KN95 masks is this 95% of the ones being bought are counterfeit and/or are not certified for use in this country. If it has hear loops instead of a head strap there is a high probability that it is counterfeit. The other thing is it should be marked with a CE certification number right on the front of the mask. If it does not have this it is 100% a fake. or of it has FDA printed anywhere on the packaging or on the mask it's self, this is also a fake.

Since you mentioned sensors. I have bought a new purge valve every year for the past 3 years. the thing beeps on going bad on me. I do not "top off" my tank and there are no contaminates in the valves at all when I remove them. I think I keep on getting crap valves. I have bought them from NAPA and also online. I am not sure why they are only lasting a year.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Update

Dave over at Werks is sending me a new waste gate. As it turn out that one is used for mock ups or some such thing. It was sent accidentally. So he made good and everything is all set. I was nothing but polite and said that it sucks when something like this happens. I didn't point a finger at anyone I just laid out how I tested the validity of the product and requested a shipping label to send the old one back.

He was more then happy to take care of it and apologized for the inconvenience. No worries and everything is now all set...
 
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