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Discussion Starter #1
Every time I read posts at www.s2ki.com, a Honda S2000 website, there is constant mention of accidents and totalled vehicles.

Now two things compel me to want a Solstice. Gorgeous looks and bang for the buck. I expect good performance, but am realistic that this is no race car like the Corvette.

Perhaps the S2000 is overpowered, maybe they have some inherent design defect, or maybe they just attract aggressive young drivers but the problem with cars that crash a lot is, the good drivers see their insurance premiums sky rocket along with the bad drivers.

Knowing that a supercharged or turbocharged Ecotec will soon enough be available for the Solstice and Sky, and knowing that the power to weight ratio will be very close to that for the Honda S2000, I'm beginning to wonder if the insurance rates for the Solstice will remain as reasonable as they are for the Miata. Part of the Miata's appeal is also bang for the buck. Reasonable insurance cost is part of that value. High insurance costs discouraged me from buying an S2000 just as high maintenance costs discouraged me from buying a BMW Z4 (plus its ugly. :eek )

So, can we expect to see a fairly mature group of owners who don't race and crash their Solsti, or would you expect to see a young group of owners who are going to drive up our insurance costs? Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I am expecting a bit older clientell with correspondingly mature and careful drivers. Accidents will happen, but I think our insurance rates will stay reasonable.

Am I nuts? :crazy
 

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I plan to crash mine the day I drive it off the lot! :glol

OK, really... I will be racing mine, but not on public roads. I've always driven "spiritedly" and have never had an accident as a result.

(knocking on wood)
 

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It's funny. You can take a stock engine, put lots of time and especially money in it, get that little 2.4 Ecotec to put out 400-500HP and your insurance won't go up a bit. But tell your agent you just bought a new turbo Solstice GT and he starts planning :cool his :cool trip :cool to :cool Hawaii! :banghead
 

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Another factor in insurance will be the theft rating. I think the Solstice will go up in insurance over time due to theft. This is a desirable car, and limited production. These could make it a high target to theves. IMO
 

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My opinion: the honda is very dicey when turning and braking, and is also quite skittish when steering very quickly. I know the dealer wasn't very happy with me, on a 20 minute test drive of the '04 (supposedly better for this characteristic), I got it sideways on the highway once, on a moderate steering event. That was on a new vehicle, supposedly improved, in dry summer conditions at normal highway speeds (which are just subsonic in MI :).

Add to this another piece of story - a friend of mine says she has had to replace tires twice in 3 years - only getting about 15,000 miles out of a set. Add a bit of worn tires, especially in the rear, combine it with just a touch of rain, and a relatively average driver, coupled with a car that's edgy to start with, and I can only imagine the results....

...perhaps this may have something to do with S2K's "crashes"? Merely speculation, of course, but the skittish handling has been well documented in auto mag articles. And Honda took active steps to improve it (split the tire sizes even more on width from '03 to '04).
 

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jimbo said:
Perhaps the S2000 is overpowered, maybe they have some inherent design defect, or maybe they just attract aggressive young drivers but the problem with cars that crash a lot is, the good drivers see their insurance premiums sky rocket along with the bad drivers.
I think S2K might attract a few more agressive drivers who rev the engine high looking for all those 240HP.
 

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mceb said:
I think S2K might attract a few more agressive drivers who rev the engine high looking for all those 240HP.
Yeah, exactly. If you live your life at 6000+ RPM you're more likely to drive a little more spiritedly on the road then most people. At speeds and revs like that a missed downup shift for most people would spell instant disaster.

There was a guy at one of the PCA Drivers Ed events in a Boxster who decided to upshift in the last corner, missed 4th from 3rd because the lateral G's were to great and hit 2nd. Instantly put the car sideways into the concrete pillar for the pit lane entrance. Both him and his teacher had concusions, but were ok in the end. Benefit of this is they use it as a wonderful example of what not to do while learning.
 

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Do we really know whether the crash rate is really higher for the S2K than other roadsters? Anecdotal information would lead you to believe it, but your only really hearing from people who have had accidents, and not all the drivers who are safe. It can be a little misleading.

As for insurance, just about any Honda product has a really high insurance cost. Their parts are expensive to replace after colissions, and they have higher theft ratings, which really boost their insurance costs. The Sol should be cheaper to repair after colissions, and hopefully the theft rating won't be quite as high.

Being a new performance car, I do not imagine insurance will be real cheap either.
 

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I thought the current S2K was o.o.p. like the MR2, awaiting all new design. Even so, at the price of the S2K you can get a Solstice AND some major 2 wheel thrills with the leftover 10K. Insurance rates will certainly be more for certain models, but I've found at my advance age the rate is mostly dependant on the MSRP of the vehicle. That's why there isn't much difference between a Firebird and a Grand Prix GTP. Any convertible is going to have a higher rate than the same model in coupe or sedan. You don't need to pop the locks, just cut through the roof fabric and you're in. That's where OnStar comes into play even if you never have to use it. They can locate a stolen car with yards, set off the horn, and the police can recover your car even if hiden in a garage! (No this is not a paid advertisement, just what I've seen demonstrated) Some insurance companies will discount for it.
 

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I was always told that horsepower was one of the major factors in setting insurance rates (jn addition to number of doors, theft rating). For instance, a 6-cylinder Mustang is much cheaper to insure than the V-8 GT model, and then the Cobra, etc., even if everything else is the same.

If the S2000 has 240 HP, and the Solstice 180 HP, I think that would make a big difference in insurance premiums.
 

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Soul Stiz said:
I was always told that horsepower was one of the major factors in setting insurance rates (jn addition to number of doors, theft rating). For instance, a 6-cylinder Mustang is much cheaper to insure than the V-8 GT model, and then the Cobra, etc., even if everything else is the same.

If the S2000 has 240 HP, and the Solstice 180 HP, I think that would make a big difference in insurance premiums.
Not necisarily the number of doors, but the number of seats greatly impacts insurance rates. There's a reason a Porsche 911 has those two 'buckets' they want to call seats. :D

The Solstice being a true two seater will be affected by that.
 

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A lot of factors go into insurance rates, and they also vary by company. Theft rating, how much it would cost to repair after a collission, how much it would cost to replace (value), history of excessive speeding tickets, single vehicle crashes, etc, engine size, number of seats, etc etc.
 

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Price has to be a big factor here. A $24K fully loaded roadster vs $30-60K like the S2000, Z4, 911, Corvette etc.
I wonder how much the average insurance for the Miata goes for this days, maybe Rodeo can shed some light on this issue, although the City where you live also seems to affect the price. I live in south Florida and there is a difference between us and other parts of the State.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
LatinVenom said:
I wonder how much the average insurance for the Miata goes for this days...
I pulled the following insurance quotes from www.csaaquote.com for my age, location & driving record. All are for base convertibles with the least powerful motor:

Mini Cooper................$1,250
Mazda Miata...............$1,425
Porsche Boxster.........$1,600
Audi TT Roadster........$1,600
Toyota MR2...............$1,625
BMW Z4 2.5i..............$1,650
Honda S2000............$1,675
Nissan 350z..............$1,825
Chevy Corvette.........$2,000
Dodge Viper...............$2,633

This compares against my Chevy Silverado pickup at $1341. The Mini was a surprise. I thought the Miata would be the least expensive. Also surprised to find the MR2 so expensive! And there is not an upswing in rates until you get to the 350z.

I am still hoping the base Solstice will be the same as the Miata, while I would expect the F/I Solstice to be about like the Z4 or S2000. Not a huge difference either way.
 

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RODEO here!

interesting what happened with my insurance:

I drive a '99 4x4 which, once the MSM came into our life, went into temp storage. With that, we dropped all coverage on the 4x4 except comp, but then we got multi car discount, and in the end, our MSM didn't change our insurance bill!

How much does it cost, forget the comparison, Los Angeles County here has one of the worst insurance cost around.........PITA...but keeps me from speeding, :D as much as I can remember that is
 

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RODEO said:
RODEO here!

interesting what happened with my insurance:

I drive a '99 4x4 which, once the MSM came into our life, went into temp storage. With that, we dropped all coverage on the 4x4 except comp, but then we got multi car discount, and in the end, our MSM didn't change our insurance bill!

How much does it cost, forget the comparison, Los Angeles County here has one of the worst insurance cost around.........PITA...but keeps me from speeding, :D as much as I can remember that is
My insurance Bill is about the same with my Jeep and Fiero on it, as it would be with just the Jeep by itself because of the multi car discount! The Jeep has full coverage, the Fiero has all but collision (I figure its not worth the cost since the book value on the car is probably about $2000.)

I was looking for a daily driver last fall and got a number of quotes for 6 month rates on all kinds of vehicles, with some interesting results. These quotes are not exactly tailored to my plan figuring only one vehicle (no multi discount) and lower covereage rates. However, they are good to compare. Here are some interesting ones:

Infiniti G35 Coupe $550
Jeep Wrangler $580
Pontiac GTO $590
Audi A4 1.8T $590
BMW 325 Ci $590
Nissan 350Z $630
Dodge SRT-4 $700
Subaru WRX $720
Acura RSX-S $770
Mazda RX-8 $780
Audi TT 1.8T $890

Based on this list, price certainly is not the deciding factor with mid $30K cars like the G35 and GTO riding near the bottom. Can you believe the TT’s cost? That must be one mighty expensive car to repair after a collision, or it gets stolen an awful lot!
 

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Speaking of stolem, I saw on the "M" forum I found the following:

"In the case of a Miata, not many are being stolen"

A) I wonder why if there have been so many sold
B) will the Sol/Sky share in this lack of theft, IOW, is it the price of the car, price of parts, or what that makes the miata less stolen than other cars. FYI, I have no numbers to back up that claim.

RODEO
 

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Discussion Starter #18
F88,

Some surprises on your list. I would think the powerful GTO would be much higher. A4 and G35 lower than expected as well.

Not at all surprised by the SRT, WRX, or RSX which I understand kids like to modify and race.

FWIW, I don't think the base Solstice will be high theft. Many stolen vehicles are stripped for parts. Some cars get raced/wrecked/modified a lot. That leads to a healthy black market in stolen body parts as well as engines, transmission, wheels & etc.

Once Pontiac offers FI, then the Solstice probably will see more theft and higher insurance rates. I like the idea of offering more power, but it will come at a premium. Once kids realize they can get S2000 performance for $3-4k less out the door, they are going to want an FI Solstice or Sky. That will lead racing/wrecks/theft.

Oh well. The Solstice will be worth the price.

:party
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Rodeo,

IMHO, Miatas are low theft because wannabe racers don't buy them to race. You end up with more mature drivers, driving more safely. That is just my opinion.

The wannabes (and I am not trying to insult anyone here, they are just the folks who get a thrill from wringing out cars at speed) tend to buy the higher HP cars for racing, like the Suburu WRX, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, Acura RSX, and Honda S2000.

Also for better or worse, the Miata is popular with women and they generally do not race their cars but tend to drive them more safely than younger guys. So there is less need for stolen fenders when you 360 into a tree or stolen trannys when you miss 4th for second in that sweeper.

Less racing means fewer claims for totalled cars and less of a market for stolen parts.
 

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jimbo said:
Rodeo,

IMHO, Miatas are low theft because wannabe racers don't buy them to race. You end up with more mature drivers, driving more safely. That is just my opinion.

The wannabes (and I am not trying to insult anyone here, they are just the folks who get a thrill from wringing out cars at speed) tend to buy the higher HP cars for racing, like the Suburu WRX, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, Acura RSX, and Honda S2000.

Also for better or worse, the Miata is popular with women and they generally do not race their cars but tend to drive them more safely than younger guys. So there is less need for stolen fenders when you 360 into a tree or stolen trannys when you miss 4th for second in that sweeper.

Less racing means fewer claims for totalled cars and less of a market for stolen parts.
90% of the Miata owns I see driving them are 50 years old and above.
 
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