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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Guys, I need your help!!!

Here's a first for me.

dealer called, said the VIN on the MSM doesn't match the contract. sure enough, the VIN is not the same as on the car. FYI, I bought it 4 months ago, financed a $7K through Chase Bank.

add to this, I owe a $1000, and was going to pay that thursday, now the finace company says I can pay it off, but the title can not be given to me. The dealer needs to do a "substitution of equity" with them. What the F*ck!!

So, any advice! Any lawyers in the house

Seriously, I worry they're going to screw this whole thing up. Plus I've got personalized plates coming I ordered 2 months ago.

And please, hold the "you bought a MSM, you got what you deserved" I've already said it :glol:

thanks
RODEO
 

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Discussion Starter #3
slowandlow said:
i have something like that the state and my insurance thinks my car is a 4 door and it is a 2 door.
I appreciate the humor slowandlow, and I really mean no offense, but this might be kinda serious.

These guys want me to sign paperwork "trading equity", whatever that means? I don't trust they have my interest in mind.

If i were driving the car and got pulled over, think of the hassle a cop could give me, possibly taking me in, who knows?

Let me know guys, here's on p*ssed off consumer. I believe a call to Mazda North America is definately in order!
 

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Id consult an lawyer. For the inconvience and possible trouble aspect of it, I would have them pay off the 1000 you owe on the car. Otherwise I would suggest telling them youve consulted a lawyer and have no problem going furthur
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Billabongi said:
Id consult an lawyer. For the inconvience and possible trouble aspect of it, I would have them pay off the 1000 you owe on the car. Otherwise I would suggest telling them youve consulted a lawyer and have no problem going furthur
Me Likes the way you think! Anyone want to back up this line of reasoning!?
Problem is, a lawyer charges money, otherwise me likes ;)
 

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I think Rodeo, if it were me, I'd just take a little trip down to the dealer right away and find out just what's involved on their end. If they can tidy it up for you, acknowledge the mistakes on their part and you move on, GREAT! Be deadly calm, if they don't, smile, tell them you want everything said to you put in writing so that you can take it to your attorney as you're interested in pursuing this as a case of fraud. You have made a purchase in good faith, let them own up to theirs. I believe once they learn you're prepared to play some serious hardball and you're more than a little annoyed at this turn of events, they'll be very gracious. After all, imagine if the local media got hold of this? The publicity could be very uncomfortable for them, make them aware of that. Remember, be deadly calm. Smile, and tell them to make this right to your satisfaction, immediately.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Michael, glad to hear from you!

I believe in doing the correct thing! 2 problems, 1) it's an 80 mile round trip, 2) they want me to sign "transfers of equity" which means what? The way I am seeing it, they have my car on their lot, and I've been driving their car for 4 months. With that said, why should I worry about the legal BS of signing paperwork I may not fully know the implications of. I realized an hour ago I have free legal conul included as benefits of my job, I think I'll call them for advice. I'm not looking for handouts, but, this dealership messed up, and they want me to make it right, but what if the paperwork gets messed up?

I figure I've got the upper hand in the fact they have transferred title to a car that is sitting on their lot, and they hold title to a car I've been driving for 4 months.

A note: the MSMs have minor glitches as can be expected woth any car, mine however has none of the known glitches after 3K miles, I'm not SURE if I'd be inclined to ask for the car that is listed on my contract, but I'm not interested in paying lawyer fees to straighten out this mess once I've paid the car in full!

So, Michael, you make a good point, protect my interest, while watching my back, the dealer sure isn't going to be doing it for me!

Keep it coming guys, this may be a b*tch of a problem! I need your advice please. I will talk to my legal reps at work asap.

I think this dealer should be thinking about throwing me a bone considering THEY let me drive of with their car, while mine is still sitting there!!!!
 

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Your consul at work will be able to advise you more Rodeo, but I'm thinking once an attorney got involved, the dealership would be liable for any legal expenses if it got ugly. After all, they'd be advised you'd want to recoup that expense as well as monetary damages for the inconvenience and embarrassment.
It may only take his/her calling them to find out the particulars instead of your calling them yourself to make them realize that this needs to be taken care of as expeditiously as possible for you, and yes, I'd ask for a bone or two. The 1,000 alone left owing on the car is a small price to pay to prevent the negative publicity that could come of this.
Hell, call the newsdesk tomorrow and ask them if this looks to turn out badly would they be interested in story. You might just have some new friends in your pocket.
 

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Wow, Rodeo! That is a huge mistake by the dealer. I can't imagine how uncomfortable you must feel. I can't help you with this but I can't help thinking that this is the dealership's sole responsibility to fix. I guess you can't go wrong consulting a lawyer about this. I hope it doesn't come to that. Good luck with it and keep us informed. I wish there was something I could do to help you.
 

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Good luck, RODEO! Can't help you with the legal implications. Is this a simple clerical error or something more serious? I'd ask some questions about the car that does match the VIN on your contract. Keep us posted.
 

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Let the dealer take care of it. Transfer of equity is probably just a banking term that means the dealer will make the corrections necessary on paper and all the money you've paid will be assigned to the correct VIN car.

Which is cheaper?. The 80 mile trip or a couple of hundred dollars for a lawyer that will just do the same thing thru the dealer and take longer. (only the dealer can do it)

If you act pissed enough, maybe you can get some freebies from the dealer. Nice car cover maybe?
 

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Rodeo, I would definitely put all th ework on the shoulders of the dealership. A call to the bank would also be in order after giving the dealer the opportunity to first make the call.

Not as a lawyer speaking but I think you have a claim to visit the dealer and exchange the car you have been driving even up for the one you are paying on. Being their mistake they shouldn't even charge you for the wear and tear on what you take back although fair market lease rate would be in order.

BBB threat might carry some weight as well. How about any local law professors who would volunteer a class project for this cause. Try also a local office of a state legislator or whatever you call them out there. They will have consumer advocate people available included already in your state taxes.
 

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One possible way to handle it is to call the dealer from the house with your answering machine on "Record". This is where a cheap, old, non-digital micro-cassette machine shines. You might even want to buy one for around $10.

Tell all you talk to at the dealer that, "This call is being recorded on the advise of your lawyer" (a bluff but it sets the mood).
1. Ask them what a "substitution of equity" is and isn't.
2. Ask them what this might leave you open too.
3. Ask them if this has happened to them before (a lawyer would love to hear them say they screw up like this all the time).
4. Ask them how they are willing to compensate you for the hassles caused by their mistake.
5. Tell them to "Have a nice day."
 

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First, take a deep breath! This doesn't sound like it should be a huge hassle. It just needs to be handled with care. No need to threat legal action or anything. Just be nice, work with the dealer.

First, is there a price difference between the MSM you have now, and the one you should have gotten? If not this should be easier. If there is, then there is the issue of who is going to pay the difference.

Second, are you happy with your MSM? You said it didn't have the typical MSM issues, so I assume you are happy. If so, call the dealer, and tell them you are pleased with the car and just as happy to keep it. Ask them what the both of you should do to correct the paperwork.

I would think that it is the dealers job to do it. They can notify the bank, the state, and anyone else who has the wrong VIN number of the correction. For the title and registration, it may take signing over the title and reg with the number of the car you don't have back to the dealer, and then having them resubmit your paperwork to the state with the correct number on it. Since it is in the record that you own the other car, you'd have to somehow acknowledge that you don't. Hence, signing the title over.

But first, I would talk it over with your salesman to see what they can do to help you out.

After you get that information from them, and you still are not sure on it, then speak with your lawyer. You don't necessarily have to hire a lawyer to handle the case just to get some advice. Most lawyers will consult with you free of charge. Since you can get it through work, I'd take advantage of that first.

At any rate, I wouldn't start with any kind of threats or demands. If you get adversarial with the dealer, they might just be far less helpful to you. I know I tend to help people more when they are pleasant. So be nice. Yeah, they screwed up, but give them a chance to make it right too. Also, sometimes mentioning you have a lawyer, or will seek a lawyer or any kind of legal action can work against you, because the dealer at that point will not work with you anymore due to potential legal implications, instead preferring to work through their own legal counsel. It could really cost you time and money.

Best of luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks all! I really appreciate the help, not the best situation, but I will hope it works out without hassle.

I believe Ff88 ad the only questions: The 2 cars are identical in features and sticker, and the one I have runs great, no issues (not that the MSMs have extraordinary issues, but they have small % of cars with some issues). I'd keep the one I've been driving by preference!

Keep the ideas coming, they help a lot.

I won't be dealing with this till tomorrow due to work issues, so I've got time.

Thanks A Bunch!
RODEO
 

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Rodeo, does the title / ownership you have in hand match the VIN on the car you have? As in, is it just the contract paper that is wrong?

If it's actually that the title doesn't match the car's VIN then I assume the "substitution of equity" means the dealer has to assume liability for any difference in equity between the two cars as their stock is obviously financed as well. Since the car on their lot is of greater value then there should be no negative impact to them. I would hazard a guess that it's their position to transfer to you the correct title rather than swap vehicles which would be very costly to them.

I would simply have them explain what needs to be done, what they expect from you and in the end do not blindly trust anyone who may be able to gain or profit from this transaction. *or save their ass*
 

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Make sure in all of this that your wallet stays in your pocket. If there are additional transfer fees or replacement title or new tags or new inspection to match the new tags, you get what I mean. All of that HAS to come from the dealer's pocket and not yours.
 

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Since both cars are identical, it should be (and I stress should) a matter of the dealer just getting you the correct title.

Another question. Do any of your other documents list the wrong VIN? Such as the registration, or insurance? (I don't know much about how things operate in CA, but in NY both would list the VIN). If they both list the wrong VIN, you may have some more issues to deal with. Especially with your vanity plates on their way!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm at work now, so I can't check the registration, I will tonight. The contract has the wrong VIN.

I am particullarly concerned about my personalized plates, and of course additional costs.

thanks, keep it coming, I'll check in tonight.
RODEO
 
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