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DETROIT - Delphi Corp., the largest U.S. auto supplier, filed for bankruptcy Saturday, sending shock waves through the nation's auto industry, which already is weakened by high labor costs and falling market share.

The company's bankruptcy is one of the largest in the country's history.

Delphi filed to reorganize its U.S. operations in federal bankruptcy court in New York, where hearings are scheduled to begin next week. Delphi's non-U.S. operations were not included in the filing.

Delphi Chairman and CEO Robert S. Miller said the company hopes to emerge from Chapter 11 in early to mid-2007.

"We will make every effort to make this as quick as possible," Miller told The Associated Press on Saturday.

More...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9618565/
Things are going to get really interesting for the UAW, GM, and US in general. So much for making $100,000 with overtime driving a fork lift. Considering the amount of parts GM gets from Delphi, what if their employees decide to drop the quality or quantity of work they put out with wages and benefits are severely cut? Service industries around areas that depend on their plants are going to be hurting too once all that discretionary income gets cut.
 

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I would love to see those employees who make $27/hr suddenly "only" make $15/hr. The question is, would those employees opt not to work at all and make nothing, or suck it up and continue to go to work and make some money.

I have a very negative opinion on unions. I once took a tour of one plant of a HUGE U.S. company. Inside there were workers actually SLEEPING on the job. While they napped, several hundreds pounds of DEFECTIVE product continued to go through the machines. If the worker was awake, he would have immediatly noticed the problem and scrap for that machine would be nominal. I asked my "guide" if she could wake him up, but she was told that is not "her job."

My opinion is unions promote laziness, pure and simple.

Fire away.....
 

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OBXSOL said:
I would love to see those employees who make $27/hr suddenly "only" make $15/hr. The question is, would those employees opt not to work at all and make nothing, or suck it up and continue to go to work and make some money.

I have a very negative opinion on unions. I once took a tour of one plant of a HUGE U.S. company. Inside there were workers actually SLEEPING on the job. While they napped, several hundreds pounds of DEFECTIVE product continued to go through the machines. If the worker was awake, he would have immediatly noticed the problem and scrap for that machine would be nominal. I asked my "guide" if she could wake him up, but she was told that is not "her job."

My opinion is unions promote laziness, pure and simple.

Fire away.....
Lock and load... :lol:

Well, unions are around for a reason, and that is not to (A) run a company out of business, or (B) give people a free ride on the job. There was a time in this country, before on the job safety regulations (OSHA) or minimun wages that workers slaved for long hours in dangerous conditions for a pittance of a salary. Unions helped earn workers rights and safe working conditions.

In this day in age, unions have been on the decline as jobs get shipped over seas to people working in those same high risk, low paying positions the unions help get rid of in this country.

I am sure many people think that factory workers making $27 an hour, who get 90% of pay on layoff, fully paid health care, and other great benefits are "over paid." Is it the unions fault? Heck no! The company is the one who signed off on these benefits.

Worst is what this will do to families. You'd like to see the 24,000 unionized Delphi workers see their wages suddenly dropped from $27 to $15 an hour? That is about a $24,000 per year pay CUT! I think that would place 24,000 families into bankruptcy very quickly. I don't know what you make, but that kind of pay cut would force most working class families to have to sell their homes, and cut deep into spending, and probably bankruptcy due to debt accumulated on their current earnings. That is a little cold, isn't it?

There is a ripple effect on whole communities and cities too. I the Buffalo area, a metropolitan area of over 1 million people, a Delphi Thermal Systems plant is our larges private employer. Among other parts, they make 4.5 million radiators a year for GM. A $12 an hour cut in pay for all employees, assuming they all average $27 an hour and would be cut to $15 an hour, would reduce the amount of income of them all combined (they employ 3000+ people) $72 million dollars! :eek: That much less spending would devastate the economy, especially with the bankruptcies it would create. Local businesses would lose busness, possibly go out of business, property values would plummet with a flood of houses on the market, either from people trying to sell to avoid forclosure, or just from forclosures. The ripple efects would be disasterous.
Trust me, the people up there are by no means sleeping on the job either. The Delphi employees, put in an honest days work.

So you may thin unions promote laziness, but in reality they bring balance to business management that would bring just the opposite, hellish work conditions for little to no compensation, and it is up to both sides to reach a fair and equitable balance. If one company allows a union to take it too far, that is the companies problem. Wishing ill on the employees for taking what is offered by the company is not right.
 

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I would love to see those employees who make $27/hr suddenly "only" make $15/hr. The question is, would those employees opt not to work at all and make nothing, or suck it up and continue to go to work and make some money. OBXSOL-
Thank you Fformula8, for your mature post. I'm rabid right now since 2,700 of my fellow co-workers could shortly be in the position obnoxsol speaks of.
 

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Fformula88
Worst is what this will do to families. You'd like to see the 24,000 unionized Delphi workers see their wages suddenly dropped from $27 to $15 an hour? That is about a $24,000 per year pay CUT! I think that would place 24,000 families into bankruptcy very quickly. I don't know what you make, but that kind of pay cut would force most working class families to have to sell their homes, and cut deep into spending, and probably bankruptcy due to debt accumulated on their current earnings. That is a little cold, isn't it?
I have a question though, are they actually asking for a $12 per hour concession? I didn't think that was what they were asking for. I thought it had more to do with health care. This is a difficult issue, because since they are competing globally, these companies need something that is at least close to a level playing field, and they don't have it currently. I don't think there are easy answers. When you see what the competitions, e.g. Toyota, expenditures are and compare them to GM and Ford, you begin to understand how Toyota has made such large gains.
 

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While I am new here I am very aware of Delphi's problems. In Dayton Ohio the union got several HUNDRED workers off of layoff and forced the company to take them back. There was no work ( that's why they were layed off in the first place!) so they were paid to sit in the cafeteria and read or play cards for 40 hrs a week. I have a friend who is a superv. there. Doesn't make for a very efficient way to compete. Now let's all blame the evil company for going under.
 

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Editguy said:
I have a question though, are they actually asking for a $12 per hour concession? I didn't think that was what they were asking for. I thought it had more to do with health care. This is a difficult issue, because since they are competing globally, these companies need something that is at least close to a level playing field, and they don't have it currently. I don't think there are easy answers. When you see what the competitions, e.g. Toyota, expenditures are and compare them to GM and Ford, you begin to understand how Toyota has made such large gains.
Before the bankruptcy filing, Delphi asked the union to accept a 60% reduction in pay.
 

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solli4me said:
Thank you Fformula8, for your mature post. I'm rabid right now since 2,700 of my fellow co-workers could shortly be in the position obnoxsol speaks of.
I wish the best for you and your fellow workers! :grouphug:

It is so easy to reduce these kinds of things to numbers, but they affect real people, real communities, real families. Thedr factors are easily forgotton in these types of situations when everyone focuses on numbers, but that doesn't make the any less real.
 

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You never see problems at Toyota or Honda. As a matter of fact the US Autoworkers that work at Toyota are always rejecting Unions:

http://www.detnews.com/2004/editorial/0405/20/a15-158005.htm

They should just shut down these plants and open up some Honda or Toyota plants all over the US and give these people jobs.

The Unions are to blame for this whole mess. You can't force a comapny to constantly raise your wages higher than the market is willing to bear and not expect long term your job will be there.
 

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You bring up unions and it's like talking politics or abortion or religion, sometimes it's better to just smile nod and move along.
 

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TOY4TWO said:
You never see problems at Toyota or Honda. As a matter of fact the US Autoworkers that work at Toyota are always rejecting Unions:

http://www.detnews.com/2004/editorial/0405/20/a15-158005.htm

They should just shut down these plants and open up some Honda or Toyota plants all over the US and give these people jobs.

The Unions are to blame for this whole mess. You can't force a comapny to constantly raise your wages higher than the market is willing to bear and not expect long term your job will be there.
Ironically, the A/C units for the redesigned Toyota Tacomas come from the local Delphi plant. GM won't be the only company affected by this.

As for who is unionized, it seems location has a lot to do with it. At least from my observations. Southern factories seem less inclined to unionize than northern, and most new plants are built in the south. Primarily for this reason. That is obviously good for the country as a whole in the short term. I am not sure how hot it is for the long term.
 

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Fformula88 said:
As for who is unionized, it seems location has a lot to do with it. At least from my observations. Southern factories seem less inclined to unionize than northern, and most new plants are built in the south. Primarily for this reason.
North Carolina is a "right to work" state, along with 21 other states across the country. Meaning, the state has prohibited unionized labor, ONLY if you working there means you have to join an organization.

Fformula88 said:
That is obviously good for the country as a whole in the short term. I am not sure how hot it is for the long term.
It seems pretty good to me as of now. I'm not sure what you definitions of short and long term are, but NC has been this way for 58 years.

Here's a link to "right to work" states so you can see where you want to move...http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm
 

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Fformula88 said:
Lock and load... :lol:

Well, unions are around for a reason, and that is not to (A) run a company out of business, or (B) give people a free ride on the job. There was a time in this country, before on the job safety regulations (OSHA) or minimun wages that workers slaved for long hours in dangerous conditions for a pittance of a salary. Unions helped earn workers rights and safe working conditions.

In this day in age, unions have been on the decline as jobs get shipped over seas to people working in those same high risk, low paying positions the unions help get rid of in this country.

I am sure many people think that factory workers making $27 an hour, who get 90% of pay on layoff, fully paid health care, and other great benefits are "over paid." Is it the unions fault? Heck no! The company is the one who signed off on these benefits.

Worst is what this will do to families. You'd like to see the 24,000 unionized Delphi workers see their wages suddenly dropped from $27 to $15 an hour? That is about a $24,000 per year pay CUT! I think that would place 24,000 families into bankruptcy very quickly. I don't know what you make, but that kind of pay cut would force most working class families to have to sell their homes, and cut deep into spending, and probably bankruptcy due to debt accumulated on their current earnings. That is a little cold, isn't it?

There is a ripple effect on whole communities and cities too. I the Buffalo area, a metropolitan area of over 1 million people, a Delphi Thermal Systems plant is our larges private employer. Among other parts, they make 4.5 million radiators a year for GM. A $12 an hour cut in pay for all employees, assuming they all average $27 an hour and would be cut to $15 an hour, would reduce the amount of income of them all combined (they employ 3000+ people) $72 million dollars! :eek: That much less spending would devastate the economy, especially with the bankruptcies it would create. Local businesses would lose busness, possibly go out of business, property values would plummet with a flood of houses on the market, either from people trying to sell to avoid forclosure, or just from forclosures. The ripple efects would be disasterous.
Trust me, the people up there are by no means sleeping on the job either. The Delphi employees, put in an honest days work.

So you may thin unions promote laziness, but in reality they bring balance to business management that would bring just the opposite, hellish work conditions for little to no compensation, and it is up to both sides to reach a fair and equitable balance. If one company allows a union to take it too far, that is the companies problem. Wishing ill on the employees for taking what is offered by the company is not right.
Couple points that are wrong with your statement. You first place the blame on the company for signing the contract, but it's the unions who forced the company to sign it in the first place (in this case GM, when they did the spinoff). Unions and the average worker can't look long term. In a global economy, it's easy to outsource the work. Also your competitors would step in. In this case, Delphi's competitors have a worker cost structure which is half of Delphi's.

Fformula88 said:
Wishing ill on the employees for taking what is offered by the company is not right.
Your right, but wishing ill on employees who DEMAND that contract, or they will strike, is fine with me. The company had long ago tried to renegotiate the contract, but the union wouldn't budge. Now everyone gets to pay the piper. (BTW, I personally think that management and the executives should take the same paycut as their workers. Stinking cowards!)


Having a paycut which is half your pay sucks. But, making $15 an hour plus benefits is still dam good pay (of course this is averaging it out. I'm sure the janitors and newb workers should be making much less, and seasoned workers would be making more.). This still comes out to be $2400 a month, and I believe most of those states in which the factories are located have a relatively low cost of living.

Although having half that portion removed from the economy, it's still a lot better than having no jobs at all. Ask the Northwest mechanics union members how they are doing.

You keep on blaming the companies for the contract, but unions have just as much blame. They're the ones that demanded the contract. Actually, unions usually demand more then they get. It's not like the company out of the goodness of their hearts decided to pay the workers twice the going market rate.

And ultimately, it's every single americans fault. As consumers we demand the lowest prices, and don't really give a care how we get it. Ninety percent of the stuff we have is made overseas, because its cheaper.

I once saw a special on Walmart and overseas workers. They brought this Bengladeshi? woman over to the US as part of the show. She makes about $1 or $2 a day making clothes. They went up to this lady and asked her, what she thought of those wages and she said it was horrible. They then asked her, if she was willing to spend and extra 50 cents (on a $9 shirt) if that 50 cent was guaranteed to go to the workers. She IMMEDIATELY started hemming and hawing and stated how she had to pay for food and clothes for her kids and family, etc.
 

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Fformula88 said:
As for who is unionized, it seems location has a lot to do with it. At least from my observations. Southern factories seem less inclined to unionize than northern, and most new plants are built in the south. Primarily for this reason. That is obviously good for the country as a whole in the short term. I am not sure how hot it is for the long term.
Wage rates are lower in the south than in the north. Yes, there a minimum wage laws nation wide, but an equivalent job in the south will pay less than in the north. It works on cost of living and other such factors.

The added bonus is that the southern workers tend to not want to unionize like the northern workers have. Reason's behind it vary with who you ask, and what report you look at... but I call it the Walmart approach. You build somewhere where there is nothing, and you can offer workers a better life by paying them a little more than they are used to making. This "little more" to them is "a little less" to the company... so it's a win-win situation.

Many other reasons I could cite, however just like this topic... they would certainly raise further discusions. Time to nod my head and move on. :)
 

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How much is this delphi worker making a year at ~ 30 dollars an hour?

1200 a week?
60 grand a year?

Does'nt seem to be that much that it should be crippling the manufacturer....

Somethings not adding up here...

Maybe its the retirement benefits and the benefits if the workers are laid off?

I believe those costs need to be addressed?

Why should employees be paid to play cards or not to work? Thats kind of weird ...

I think executive salaries need to be addressed and the same for Union officials...

My 2 cents? GM who is ultimately responsible...for delphi employee benefits will follow suit in chapter 11 to ditch legacy costs..

Stikes be dammed..

Who gets paid a year salary to not work? and the retirement package is way too lucrative...IMO...

Leave the salaries where they are but look at retirement packages...

Hell Government retirement benefits should be looked at too.......

I think they make the UAW package look piss poor...........

No wonder our taxes are skyrocketing...

I still laugh everytime I drive into NYC and know the toll booth operators can be making six figures and that their retirement package is 80% of their last years salary? WTF!
 

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Just a little further information.

Toyoto skilled workers make more than GM. Toyoto also has a better retirement package, and their health care is good also.

Most of GM/Delphi's problems are the legacy costs, and the change in technology. Production workers at GM/Delphi make a lot of money because their jobs use to be very difficult. The plants were not air conditioned (and many still are not) and the work was heavy and at a fast pace. As technology came along, the production work became easier. But the labor costs did not reflect this because GM was still making a lot of money, and it is difficult to get someone that has been doing a job for 20 years to suddenly take a 50% pay cut because their job has changed. I do not think many of you would like to do this either.

GM/Delphi also has the problem where they orginally had a much larger share of the market, as the market share decreased, they had to pay a larger percentage of their profit to retirement and health care. This is strickly the managements fault for letting design/quality slip so that market share fell.
In a few years, this will not be so bad because a larger percentage of those on retirement are in their 70's and 80's.

You also would be amazed at how many people that are hired at my GM plant quit once summer gets here because they cannot work in the 120 degree temperature.

I also have a lot of critism for the unions for protecting the drunks and the druggies, and for not doing more to encourage education so that production workers can move into skilled trades and not have to take the pay cuts.
 

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It's not as though those overpaid Delphi UAW guys could get half of what they make now from anyone else. Who's going to pay an elementary school graduate $57K plus tons of fringe benefits to wrap some electrical tape around a bundle of wires? As I recall, Delphi has 185,000 employees, of which 50,000 are in the US. They could probably just shift production overseas w/o any hassle. Ah, the illegal US unions, destroying every
industry this country ever had, and then retiring comfortably to Florida.
If I owned a factory, I'd contract out every job in it. Amazing how people in this country are afraid to criticize the unions, but avoid buying anything they produce or service they provide.
 

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I'm a union worker,(a laborer) a female in construction. We get 22.00 an hour, we had do give up our last raise for 1.00 in 2004 because they put the money towards our health insurance instead. We gave up a good raise(1.00 a year) for the next 3 years but are getting more in our annuity and other benefits. We still are getting a raise but I think it's like 1.00 over the three years total. Whats killing unions and GM (like other companys) is the darn health insurance cost. It's crazy what they charge!!!! I'm out on workers comp since June of 2004, long story but my union gave me 1 year of coverage at no charge to myself, which is great. But now the year is up and I have to start paying cobra, thats $610.00 a month for my husband and myself. When your out on workers comp your company is not obligated by law to pay your health care insurance, this is crazy Why should I have to pay it I got hurt on the job. But thats the law ! I believe the law should be changed and your company should have to pay health care cost. I get pretty good money from comp insurance but now it's going to cost me around 7,000.00 a year for insurance. Thats a hell of alot of money ! And they don't think I'll be able to go back to work at all. If they put a cap on health care cost maybe the unions won't have to ask for what they do.
 

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My mouth is shut on this Union topic. :cool:
 
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