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Yes!

Of course they killed the wrong brand. Maybe when they get back on thier feet they'll bring it back. It's so depressing... every time I read another article about Pontiac's demise. I will miss the cars of course, but I will also miss those tag lines like We Build Excitement, and Fuel for the Soul. I'll have my two Pontiacs, my Fiero and my Solstice are both fun cars to drive.

It just strikes me as odd that they chose Buick over Pontiac, I'm not buying the whole Buick sales in China thing. It's so depressing...

:( :cryin: :brentil:
 

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Somehow this story misses the fact that GM isn't keeping ANY of these brands it just so happens that they found buyers for two of the brands and one was able to stand on it's own.

Just another bozo with a word program on his laptop. Forget about facts we'll cook something up and call it news.

GM should have kept Pontiac over Buick in the U.S.
Far better looking cars.
 

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Yes. Even during the heyday of badge engineering, Pontiac was able to maintain more visual difference from the rest of GM by getting creative with the side/door bumper guards and turning it into the famous side cladding design feature.
 

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I agree P.Gadget.... Where the hell has the guy who wrote that article been??? All those brands are dead to GM because they have sold them off or killed the brand.

I am with FieroVIN on the whole BUICK thing....

GM might have me as a customer for a BUICK at the same time I am in the market for an AARP Card, Geritol, Dentucreme, Depends, and a Walker....
 

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I agree P.Gadget.... Where the hell has the guy who wrote that article been??? All those brands are dead to GM because they have sold them off or killed the brand.

I am with FieroVIN on the whole BUICK thing....

GM might have me as a customer for a BUICK at the same time I am in the market for an AARP Card, Geritol, Dentucreme, Depends, and a Walker....[/QUOTE]

I agree my Dad might have liked driving four door tuna boats. But I'm nearly 50 now and I'm definately not my Dad.
 

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Being a world wide company, GM probably was looking at $$$ over the long haul. Like it or not, every BIG corp in the world is looking at China as large part of the future profits. Buick is BIG $$$$$ in the China market with big up side. GM could not afford to be emotional.

Let me ask THIS question; why do people assume that Pontiac would not be resurrected ?!?!?!?! If GM becomes profitable, imagine the potential profits if it brought back the brand with a few models (out of China or Australia) and put them right back in to Buick/GMC stores. Remember that Saab, Hummer, and Saturn were ALL available for "purchase" almost from the beginning of the process and Pontiac was not (despite rumors). WHY? Talk about sandbagging a trump card, huh? Time will tell. Three years ago GM said the Camaro would never be produced again, and V8s were DEAD.
 

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Buick has the new LaCrosse in the immediate pipeline, Pontiac had nada. Rear wheel drive Pontiac performance also doesn't fit the very new government CAFE direction now either. Seems like a very sad yet simple decision to me.
 

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Buick has the new LaCrosse in the immediate pipeline, Pontiac had nada. Rear wheel drive Pontiac performance also doesn't fit the very new government CAFE direction now either. Seems like a very sad yet simple decision to me.
And love or hate the idea, Buick China has SOME cars that are actually BETTER than what is being built stateside for domestic consumption.

Let me share a product story about what China CAN produce. As a Snap-On dealer we had Blue Point air tools as a lower cost choice product for customers to choose from. Over time these were almost ALL "Made in Japan" products (from a company called HKK, if I remember correctly). The particular tool I remember was a 1/4" impact gun (really) product number AT225 - not bad at all. Over time production switched to Taiwan as an AT225A and the B - JUNK . It then switched to China as an AT225C. I was WAY p!ssed this point and had refused to sell the A, B, and certainly the C. Then I had a great customer who wanted the C, and after I said NO, he said he would take ALL his business to one of the "M" trucks, so I ordered one in. Well, it was finished BETTER than all the earlier versions, was more feature rich, WORKED better, had more power and control, and unlike the earlier ones - STAYED TOGETHER. I sold a tune of them.

The Chinese will build whatever they are paid to make. You want cheap - you got it. You want real good - you got it. Personally, I will buy American when I can - hence a Sky and an Outlook, not an S2000 and some import mid sized SUV. But GM China is building some real good stuff, Buick is a prestige brand in China, GM is making BIG money on the brand, and the math became a factor.
 

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And love or hate the idea, Buick China has SOME cars that are actually BETTER than what is being built stateside for domestic consumption.

Let me share a product story about what China CAN produce. As a Snap-On dealer we had Blue Point air tools as a lower cost choice product for customers to choose from. Over time these were almost ALL "Made in Japan" products (from a company called HKK, if I remember correctly). The particular tool I remember was a 1/4" impact gun (really) product number AT225 - not bad at all. Over time production switched to Taiwan as an AT225A and the B - JUNK . It then switched to China as an AT225C. I was WAY p!ssed this point and had refused to sell the A, B, and certainly the C. Then I had a great customer who wanted the C, and after I said NO, he said he would take ALL his business to one of the "M" trucks, so I ordered one in. Well, it was finished BETTER than all the earlier versions, was more feature rich, WORKED better, had more power and control, and unlike the earlier ones - STAYED TOGETHER. I sold a tune of them.

The Chinese will build whatever they are paid to make. You want cheap - you got it. You want real good - you got it. Personally, I will buy American when I can - hence a Sky and an Outlook, not an S2000 and some import mid sized SUV. But GM China is building some real good stuff, Buick is a prestige brand in China, GM is making BIG money on the brand, and the math became a factor.

Can I add a few tweaks to your story. Some of their best stuff they build but don't design yet. They have a long way to go in the design of cars, but give them time. They do learn and make it better. Think 20 years ago Hyundai was crap now the Genesis is a hot car that you might actually buy if you couldn't get your hands on a sol/sky?
 

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Can I add a few tweaks to your story. Some of their best stuff they build but don't design yet. They have a long way to go in the design of cars, but give them time. They do learn and make it better. Think 20 years ago Hyundai was crap now the Genesis is a hot car that you might actually buy if you couldn't get your hands on a sol/sky?
:agree::agree:
 

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No

What's all this "Buick should have gone" stuff? Buick's been a shining spot for GM due to its quality in an otherwise dismal catalog.

Pontiac by contrast lost its identity a long time ago, they have been rudderless and without spark for a while. The Solstice is just one car- a niche car- in Pontiac's stable. Unless the 2006 Solstice was the 21st century 1965 Mustang (please don't bother to tell me about 1964 1/2, ask Ford what model year the first Mustang was ;) ), then the Solstice was too little too late, a last hurrah for a marquee that lost its way almost two decades ago. Pontiac used to be "we build excitement". Now "Pontiac is car"...if the shift of focus is not obvious, then I don;t know what to say.

Buick on the other hand consolidated its image, is great for P.R., and was the marquee that founded General Motors, when Billy Durant used Buick's capital to found the company

The Crime here is that Pontiac was allowed to wallow in faceless mediocrity through the '90s with mostly ugly cars that had all the excitement of a drowned rat hosting a maggot picnic
 

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No

What's all this "Buick should have gone" stuff? Buick's been a shining spot for GM due to its quality in an otherwise dismal catalog.

Pontiac by contrast lost its identity a long time ago, they have been rudderless and without spark for a while. The Solstice is just one car- a niche car- in Pontiac's stable. Unless the 2006 Solstice was the 21st century 1965 Mustang (please don't bother to tell me about 1964 1/2, ask Ford what model year the first Mustang was ;) ), then the Solstice was too little too late, a last hurrah for a marquee that lost its way almost two decades ago. Pontiac used to be "we build excitement". Now "Pontiac is car"...if the shift of focus is not obvious, then I don;t know what to say.

Buick on the other hand consolidated its image, is great for P.R., and was the marquee that founded General Motors, when Billy Durant used Buick's capital to found the company

The Crime here is that Pontiac was allowed to wallow in faceless mediocrity through the '90s with mostly ugly cars that had all the excitement of a drowned rat hosting a maggot picnic
I don't know anything about Buick quality, but I agree with you about Pontiac in the 90's. :yawn: However I had high hopes for a Pontiac renaissance, the Solstice of course, and the G8 GXP is an excellent car. I was hoping they would be able to build on those.
 

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I don't know anything about Buick quality, but I agree with you about Pontiac in the 90's. :yawn: However I had high hopes for a Pontiac renaissance, the Solstice of course, and the G8 GXP is an excellent car. I was hoping they would be able to build on those.
Well I do know of Buick quality and comparing that to Pontiac is like comparing 80s Hyundai reliability with that of modern Lexus. You get the point. ChrisBlair is right on. Buick survives, Pontiac doesn't. When your excitement division sells a G3, G5 and weak G6 then it ain't excitement it is just "car". And one can get better build quality, better prices, better content and better engineering for "car" at Mazda, at Toyota or Honda. So, no excitement division because for years there was no excitement. I am so disappointed to acknowledge this...
 

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Yes, bring back Pontiac.

Yes, they killed the wrong brand. Should have killed Saturn and Buick if any. Personally, i know several people that have Saturn cars and they have mechanical problems in the first year and almost certainly need new parts within 20,000 miles. And why does GM need two luxury companies? Buick and Cadillac? Buick's are ugly. Pontiac is a time trusted brand, unlike Saturn, and Buick is just a stupid excuse for a second luxury branch. I want someone to buy the rights to the Solstice and maybe the G6 and G8 and make them under another brand name. Or maybe make a Chevy Solstice??? Or GMC Solstice? Who is with me? PM me if you want to talk about this.

And if GM had to kill any brands, they should have taken the popular models and continued them as re badged models from Chevy or GMC. Maybe even Cadillac.
 

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Yes, they killed the wrong brand. Should have killed Saturn and Buick if any. Personally, i know several people that have Saturn cars and they have mechanical problems in the first year and almost certainly need new parts within 20,000 miles. And why does GM need two luxury companies? Buick and Cadillac? Buick's are ugly. Pontiac is a time trusted brand, unlike Saturn, and Buick is just a stupid excuse for a second luxury branch. I want someone to buy the rights to the Solstice and maybe the G6 and G8 and make them under another brand name. Or maybe make a Chevy Solstice??? Or GMC Solstice? Who is with me? PM me if you want to talk about this.

And if GM had to kill any brands, they should have taken the popular models and continued them as re badged models from Chevy or GMC. Maybe even Cadillac.
Yes! Saturns quality clearly suffered when they started having to sell rebadged Chevys:glol: The two I personally owned before that were clearly superior automobiles compared to the rest of GM's lineup:yesnod::lol:
 
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