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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK so I ordered a lot of the parts to do an Electric Water Pump conversion and to delete the balance shafts and chain with associated guides and tensioner. During this process I am also going to be replacing the radiator with an aluminum dual core dual pass. I am also going to change how some of the pieces in the coolant loop are connected and doing a full AN conversion of all of the coolant lines.


This is what I ordered today


main timing chain
intake cam phaser
exhaust cam phaser
crank sprocket
left timing chain guise
right timing chain guide
upper timing chain guide
upgraded main chain tensioner
ARP guide bolts
upgraded cover bolt
timing chain oil nozzle
balance shaft delete oil plugs
balance shaft delete block off plugs
valve cover gasket
front seal
timing cover gasket
6an hose ends straight (6pcs)
12an hose ends straight (4pcs)
6an hose ends 90° (2pcs)
8an hose ends 90° (2pcs)
10an hose ends 90° (2pcs)
12an hose ends 90° (2pcs)
12an hose ends 45° (1pcs)
6an female flare to 3/8 tube (2pcs)
8an female flare to 1/2" tube (4pcs)
6an hose (15 feet)
8an hose (3 feet)
12an hose(10 feet)
16an male to 1" NPT male (7pcs)
16an hose ends 90° (2pcs)
12an male to 3/4" NPT male (4pcs)
8an male flare to 8an male flare (4 pcs)
12an male flare to 3/4" hose barb (2pcs)
16an hose (12 feet)
1 5/32 carbon steel dill bit (1pcs)
1" NPT tap (1pcs)

I still have to order the following

DavisCraig 40GPM pump,
electronics to control the speed of the pump
mounting bracket for the pump
Dual core dual pass aluminum radiator
1" in, 1" out, 3/4" ports stainless steel coolant manifold
Aluminum AN hose clamps and tie downs


I may need to rebuild the oil pump or replace it all together if the timing cover is scored at all. I will know when I pull everything apart. I have been waiting for it to not be snowing out (snow again last night) before I start this project as I am going to be working under a portable garage and I don't want the thing to collapse because of too much weight from the wet heavy spring snow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
read this article. It explains what balance shafts do and why they are not needed.

 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
why is it that people think that a "harmonic" balancer is what balances an engine. Tat is not what a harmonic balancer does. It is actually more of a shock like the one ones on your suspension. Shocks in a suspension dampen spring rebound with is a linear force that travels in a fairly straight line. A harmonic balancer dampens spring rebound in a shaft that is turning. What I mean by spring rebound is the shaft twisting and then springing back. When a cylinder fires there is going to be a boost in energy. since there are other things attached to the crank that have to be moved when that boost occurs there is going to be torsional stresses placed on the crank until those other parts get up to speed with the cylinder that fired. In the amount of time it takes for that to happen the crank will actually twist and when the other compenents finally get up to speed is the rebound. If the vibrations from that are not dampened the crank can eventually crack. Harmonic balances are designed to work within a given RPM range and HP output from the engine. I believe the factory balancer is OK to use up to about 400 HP and 7500 RPM. I am over that for HP and I will be changing the balancer at some point because of that. I am not going to be able to get the engine RPMs up to 7500 because I have not changed the valve springs to stop the float. Elimination of the balance shafts will allow me to go up to about 7000 RPM without issue.
 
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read this article. It explains what balance shafts do and why they are not needed.

I could be wrong, but I think @SSolstice ; was referring to something similar to the last 2 sentences in the ZZP article you linked to.

“It also helps to add on 10/210, and the ATI super dampener mod. We went through a lot of stock crank pulleys until we gave up and finally ran this.”

Again, I’m just one brain cell away from being a talking monkey, so take the above with a grain of salt.

On another note- really excited to see how your delete AND electric water pump turn out! Really exciting stuff!!!


*edit
Wonder why my tagging doesn’t always work...
@SSolstice;
@JohnWR;
 

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Honestly I don’t know how you have the time and patience to write an essay on every reply. So you are going to trouble of upgrading the turbo, electric water pump,etc and not upgrading the harmonic balancer or the valve springs Mmm. You mentioned a balance shaft delete kit (oil plugs), not the neutral balance shafts kit. If you are upgrading to the neutral balance shafts agree the dampener is not need, but recommended. Why would you run the neutral balance shafts if you are installing an electric water pump? By installing an electric water pump you don’t even have to run the secondary chain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
using neutral balance shafts have a 500.00 cost to them. and the outcome would be the same as just deleting the shafts all together is I am converting the water pump. I can also have the shafts milled off and turn the ends of the shafts into idlers but again this is if keeping the mechanical pump.

I am removing the balance shaft chain all together. I am pretty sure that I did say that in the first post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The balance shafts are there to counter act the vibrations that are caused by the change in direction of the pistons. a harmonic balancer dampens the recoil of the crank twisting when a cylinder fires. Harmonic balances do not balance anything. They are not a counter weight there for they would make zero change to any vibrations that are the result of directional change of the pistons. If that direction change causes twisting to occur in the crank shaft then yes the harmonic balancer would make a difference but that's not what's happening. Those are 2 completely different things. While balance shafts were invented in the early 1900's they were really heavily used until the late 1990s. The majority of 4 cylinder engines didn't have them through the 80's and early 90's Those engines suffered no ill effects because they did not have balance shafts. Balance shafts are only there for driver comfort and no other reason. The down side is they cause mechanical issues when running the engine at high RPM. For someone that drives more aggressively the bad outweighs the good and the balance shafts will reduce the life of the engine.

The springs will get upgraded for the valves. I just haven't gotten there yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
who said I am keeping it? I am not. I can't keep it if I am going to delete the balance shaft chain.

I am keeping the housing and going to remove the impeller, shaft and sprocket. Need the housing so coolant can still flow through it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oye! what a pain this is trying to locate a 23wide x 16 high "Ford" aluminum radiator that is dual pass. Ford style radiators are a driver side inlet and Chevy is a passenger side. Dual pass means the Inlet and outlet are on the same side. Now i have found a single radiator that will fit but I would like to have -16an male connections on it and not 1 1/2" barb.Don't want to cut up the radiator to change the fittings either.

Can't find any place locally that builds radiators from the ground up. Lots of places that repair them but none that make them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yes!!!

I found an almost drop in replacement for the stock radiator and it doesn't have the 700.00 price tag.


Dual pass, dual core all aluminum radiator. This is a problem solver. It shortens up the upper radiator hose by moving it over to the driver side of the vehicle. No more sagging upper radiator hose. It eliminates 2 tight radius 90° turns in the hose which add restriction and flow losses due to friction that is equal to adding 20' of straight hose to the system. That restriction is added back i inside of the radiator where it is really going to do good. The coolant has to make a 180° turn in order to make the second pass through the radiator. This is OK to have happen because slowing down the velocity of the coolant before it exits the radiator will keep the water pump from encountering cavitation and it also slows the coolant flow down to give it ample time to shed heat.

The upper and lower hose connections are larger. upper is 1.25 and lower is 1.75 so adapters would need to be used , that is not a deal breaker for that aspect of it. It does have a fill neck, this is not a deal breaker either because there are caps available that do not have the pressure relief, The overflow line is on the passenger side and is not an issue to extend to the passenger side. With the cap that doesn't have the pressure relief the "overflow" nipple will work in the same way the OE nipple does and that is to handle expansion or surge.

It takes the same size fan as the OE fan and the size is really close to what the OE dimensions are. I have not gotten exact measurements of the OE radiator. I measured it in the vehicle as best I could and the overall of the OE is ~16 tall x ~23 wide and this radiator has an overall size of 15.5" tall and 22" wide. That extra inch might be the core or it could be the tanks. I am crossing my fingers that it is the tank because if it is I should be able to attach the factory fan shroud pretty easily.

Making mounts for it should be pretty simple as well. I can use 1.5" or 2" wide aluminum flat bar that is 1/8" thick and come off the top of the radiator make a 90 head down the side make another 90 and bolt to the stock studs on the top of the frame. The lower mounts are just pins that sit into rubber bushings. not hard to replicate those. The petcock is on the same side as the OE radiator.

From the drawing of the radiator it looks like the outlet at the bottom is raised up some just like the outlet is on the factory radiator. It appears like the outlet will clear the steering gear without issue. saving 350 bucks is a good savings. I am going to have to invest in either having 16an bungs welded on to replace the upper and lower connections on the radiator OR I found a company that makes a compression style adapter that can be used to convert the connections to 16an.



I called a place to get a quote for building a custom radiator before I had found this one an when I was told the prices for a custom radiator "start at" 1600.00 I literally started laughing out loud. When I finally stopped laughing I asked if they gold plate the radiator. Custom radiators in most cases are not as custom as you think. The end tanks are manufactured and can be bought in different shapes and sizes in most cases and the cores are definitely not custom and are manufactured. The only thing that is really custom would be the locations of the inlet and outlet. I can buy a "DIY" radiator kit that has all the bits and pieces and you welt it together yourself and that has a cost of 275.00 and that comes with the tanks welded on and only the inlet and outlet need to be welded on as well as the petcock and expansion nipple. spending 1325.00 to weld on those couple of small pieces is beyond crazy!!!!. I am willing to bet they have manufactured radiators of all kinds of shapes and sizes in stock that are made by some Chinese guy in China for next to nothing and just like Orange County Choppers they just weld crap onto it and call it custom.

I literally just started laughing and when I stopped there was that 2-3 seconds of uncomfortable silence before I asked it if was gold plated. The person on the phone started to stumble over their words and I hung up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The radiator is rated for 610 bhp. so ample cooling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
water pump is ordered and the radiator is ordered. If I can find a place locally that will weld on 16an bungs to the radiator for a reasonable price I will do that. and if not I will use these adapters to get the job done.

 

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For information, Griffin Radiator is just down I-85 from DDM in SC. They will build anything you have the money for and you get what you pay for. I don't know if they still do it, but I had them restore my '54 Pontiac Harrison radiator for Factory Air cars. Pontiac was the first to have all under the hood AC. I have an engine and AC special parts from a '54 Star Chief sedan sitting in my workshop. FWIW...which apparently isn't much except to the person restoring a '54 with factory air.

I spoke to Dave about have a Griffin radiator installed should I have him replace the clutch, etc. You know the drill. I can't do this level of work anymore, like HH's adventures. Wish I could.

Richard Snipes
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I got my first order on parts in.

Font Circle Wood Audio equipment Wire


Now get ready to choke. What you see in the photo cost a tad under 700.00.


That's what happens when 4 trillion dollars gets printed off. Things end up costing twice what they are really worth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I was at a transmission shop a few weeks ago and I asked them if they still rebuild manual transmissions. They said yes. Out of curiosity I asked what it would cost to rebuild the AR5. Bearings, seals, forks, synchros. Those kinds of things and if I brought the transmission to them and they didn't have to pull it. 6,000 bucks!!!!

Looks like I will be putting in a tremic when this one goes to crap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
@4501 Safari

350 for a radiator is not bargain basement prices. There are lots on Amazon for sub 200 and even as low as 140.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
They wanted 100 bucks a pop to weld the 16an fittings on. So an additional 200 bucks. That's just crazy.
 

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Yes, when I replaced the OEM radiator in the '95 Roadmaster (LT1/4L60E) I could have gotten the hand made USA radiator (not Griffin, BTW) I really wanted for $600 back then but went with an Amazon Chinese wonder with welds my cat could have done better, but it works. I went with the 9C1 radiator (cop Caprice) as I have the 9C1 external oil cooler. It's a tow package wagon so the transmission cooler is standard. Kinda looks like the back of a Sub-Zero fridge up front but all works fine. The Solstice is a different animal, for me. I watch what you, HH, Rob and John do as it's always top drawer.

Carry on...

Richard
 
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