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Discussion Starter #101
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The service manual states that the crank position learn may have to be done multiple times, so it is possible that it is still the problem.

Going back to what caused all of this in the first place and could still be a problem, loss of power could still be it.

There is nothing that I can find stated in the manual about any of these codes preventing an engine start.
 
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P0036, P0141 and P0171 together sound like a disconnected O2 sensor.

As far as the no-start condition, at this point: you might consider having a look at the pins in the fuse box near that relay. They can get pushed down to the point where they don't make consistent contact. This can also happen if you've, say, moved the fuse box out of the way to get more room when removing the battery. The big connector that goes into the bottom of the fuse box can get moved around to the point where it doesn't mate properly with the fuses and relays inside the fuse box.
 

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Discussion Starter #104
raygun - I understand and I'll check. I think (if I can't borrow one) is buy a Tech 2.

I've been able to repeat this, code is always the same and either the starter will spin and the motor will not fire or it won't spin at all, after I clear the codes it will start.
 

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Genuine Tech II’s are phenomenally expensive.


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Quote: still won't rev above 4,000. I read on here that our cars won't go over 4,000 with no load on them. Means to protect the engine from those who over zealous about revving them up!
 

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Discussion Starter #107
Porkey - Humm, interesting.

So I've gone and ordered a Vident iLink 400 scanners. I emailed with the vendor and he insisted that it will perform the Crankshaft relearn process. Supposed to be here Wednesday. I figured it justifiable at $170. Dealer wanted $100+ to just do a scan the first time I called him and that's more than half the purchase price so if it wasn't just the ECM and the Crankshaft position relearn and turns out to be something else it will have paid for itself.

I was considering the VXDIAG VCXNANO-PW160 (software for my computer) but that would mean I would have to drag a laptop out to the car if I needed it, this way I can just keep the scanner in the car.
 

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That is a nice-looking device. Please let us know how well it works.
 

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Good call.

The VXDIAG stuff is really, really terrible. It took hours of finagling to get the thing to work. The (pirated) software runs in a weird VM, driver installation requires jumping through flaming hoops, etc. It's a waste of money.

HP Tuners will also do a crank relearn, and you can use it for a bunch of other stuff (like installing a tune). :)
 

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Good call.

The VXDIAG stuff is really, really terrible. It took hours of finagling to get the thing to work. The (pirated) software runs in a weird VM, driver installation requires jumping through flaming hoops, etc. It's a waste of money.

HP Tuners will also do a crank relearn, and you can use it for a bunch of other stuff (like installing a tune). :)
Agree.

Agree.

If you aren't going to be tuning the iLink looks to be a much more economical and stand-alone option. I may have to get one just to see how it compares to the Tech2.
 
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I find it odd that, after swapping engines three times on the blue car, I never had an issue with CAS learn. No DTC, no-start condition or anything else.

Must've been lucky, I guess.
 

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I find it odd that, after swapping engines three times on the blue car, I never had an issue with CAS learn. No DTC, no-start condition or anything else.

Must've been lucky, I guess.
It is only required for a 2.4, and if I read the manual correctly, only with a new ECM.
 

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Ok. This was on a 2.4 (turbo), but not a new ECM. But, the name implies it’s being trained for a given engine. Shrug.


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Ok. This was on a 2.4 (turbo), but not a new ECM. But, the name implies it’s being trained for a given engine. Shrug.
It does, but I think that the sensors are probably consistent "enough" for good function of the engine. After reading what the manual has to say I think it may be something that isn't as critical as the original designers may have thought. As long as the ECM has been set to something it seems to be happy.
 
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Discussion Starter #115 (Edited)
I am pleased and beside myself with joy!

The root problem appears to have been the ECM had decided to retire, not sure why. Along the way, I first bought a new battery, checked every ground I could find, checked every fuse that I could find, pulled every connector on the ECM, BCM UHF box (even dismantled the fuse box to look inside) with the exception of the starter motor and ground. But the car is up on jack stands as that was the next thing to check.

I found a local ECM testing and rebuilding business who performed last rights on it and offered to rebuild it for $400. Summit Racing offers new "Plug and Play" ECMs for $186, Hum ... what to do? New ECM arrived from Summit on Saturday but the engine would not start unless I cleared the Crankshaft variation code which kept coming back because that ECM required "Crank position relearning".

So after debating to drag it to the dealer, try to rent or borrow a Tech2 type scanner, or buy something that would perform the relearn function, I decided to buy the ilink400 from Vident at a cost of $170 from Amazon.

Thanks to numerous people on the forum (JohnWR, raygun, Ghost, Porky and a number of other people here) and on facebook for their patience, guidance, and screenshots.

Along the way, I also purchased a subscription to Alldata for a year so maybe I can return the favor by answering questions for someone else.

I can recommend the VIDENT "iLink400 Full Single Make Scan Tool". The owners manual is pretty good, the quality of the tester is good and it can be intuitive to use after fumbling around for an hour or so.

The only videos suck! Ether they are in Chinese with now voice and tough to keep up with. The biggest problem I had was trying to figure out how to set it up and download the software from the web site. Took me a couple of tries.

So there you go that's my little solstice journey through hell. Just goes to show you that if you keep an open mind, listen to the advice offered (not to say that it will all be correct) and stick with it, even a blind squirrel can find a nut. :)

UPDATE, 3 minutes later. problem is still there. PO602, worked fine for half a dozen restarts. Back to retracing everything I've already looked at.
 

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Discussion Starter #116
Scanner says - PO602/ $07E8 Programming error, when I read further I see that the "Exhaust gas sensor heater, bank 1 sensor 2 failed" and heater control circuit counts are 801, exceeded the limit of 800.
 

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Well, crap.

:|

So, if I understand correctly:

Car starts and runs fine.
At some point, it refuses to start, and the P0602 presents itself.
Clear the code, and the car starts and runs fine, until it doesn't, at which point P0602 is there. And, at no point when it is starting and running is P0602 present?

Is that correct?

Any other codes accompanying P0602 at the moment?
 

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I'm going to play my broken record again and point to Relay 26 PWR/TRN because it not only powers the ECM directly, it also feeds Fuse 33 EXH that powers the O2 sensors.
 
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Flakey relays will do funny things. :/


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Discussion Starter #120
JohnWR - I've looked and switched relays around, I have given up, taking it to the dealer today to have him reflash the ECM, just one minor problem, the speedometer seems to be running about twice as fast as actual and when the speedo hits about 120 the fuel is shut off and engine speed drops to 1000 rpm.
 
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