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The article makes some valid points that need to be considered. Is it completely right? I doubt it. Is GM in trouble? Absolutely.

Mercinarily (sic) do I care? NO, just get me my Sol! :lol:

I do agree that GM should NOT have promoted the car on Apprentice until it was in production!! The risk of this type of delay can be very detrimental to them. It is obvious to me that this is already happening from this forum. I believe that anyone who spends the time to participate in a forum are pretty serious about the car. So, when those people change their minds and cancel I make the judgement that there are many more "outsiders" doing the same!

I would not be surprised if the next SNAFU is that when GM goes to deliver the EOP cars they find that 10%+ of the buyers don't want them anymore. Now just how screwed up is it going to get trying to replace them with people on the wait list? Especially when they are no where near geographically. If I am still waiting I would sure not want to lose my EOP opportunity because some guy is Phoeniz cancelled and it is to much hassle to do what they said and let the dealer keep the car for his first allocation buyer!!! That would tick me off completely!!

JMTCW
 

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GM's version of Chinese Water Tourture

The waiting and not knowing (particularly with the suddenly nice weather) is getting pretty painful. :(
One thing that I wonder is - how much is the general public aware of the car? A month or two ago, I noticed a strange (unfamiliar) looking wagon in the parking lot at work - it was a Ford Freestyle. I'd never heard a word about it (and yet, still don't care :devil: ). Today, while driving down the expressway, I passed a new Jeep Commander (think H3 with more proportional windows) - again, something I've never even heard of :willy: .

:confused: I wonder how effective the Apprentice launch really was - I know I wouldn't have cared a wit about the show - but for the fact that I new the Solstice was going to be on it.

The real problem it that it is a beautiful day and I just know it'll be mid-December before I get my car. :banghead:
 

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I talking to a co-worker yesterday right before I left work and she knew I was getting a convertible, but she didn't know what it looked like and neither did the customer that came in. After I showed a picture of it (from the most recent Buy & Lease Guide) she said that's a really cute car.

My only competition for "best car" at my job is an SRT-4, after I get a Turbo/Super I won't have any problem beating him :)
 

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Sol Cruisin said:
If I am still waiting I would sure not want to lose my EOP opportunity because some guy is Phoeniz cancelled and it is to much hassle to do what they said and let the dealer keep the car for his first allocation buyer!!! That would tick me off completely!!
Then you just don't know enough about the program. That is the procedure of cancelled orders beyond the point of change.
 

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Small Dealer said:
Then you just don't know enough about the program. That is the procedure of cancelled orders beyond the point of change.
Then what the heck are they keeping the waiting list for? I thought when someone cancelled it was supposed to revert back to the list?
 

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Yep ... the first 1000 orders are probably pretty close to being finalized at this point. If somebody cancels early enough for GM to reassign the spot to a waitlister, they will. But once it gets too close to delivery, it goes to the dealer for him to sell as part of his allocation ... they're not going to ship it back across the country to get it to somebody else. However, I highly doubt there are going to be anywhere near 10% of the first 1000 who cancel their order this late in the game. I can see a lot of waitlisters going elsewhere, but those of us who know we got one of the first cars are probably do what it takes to get it. I think the only first 1000 order I've seen here that backed out was Billabongi.
 

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Sol Cruisin said:
The article makes some valid points that need to be considered. Is it completely right? I doubt it. Is GM in trouble? Absolutely.

do I care? NO, just get me my Sol! .
sensational journalism aside,over the long haul, i'll bet on GM over the nips. perhaps it will become necessary to help GM by enacting huge trade barriers to our markets. GM has the right formula, styling first, product first, pricing first, service first...getting it right is easier said than done. have the foreign markets always gotten it right the first time??? :rolleyes:

my new plate :yesnod:

[/IMG]
 

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Zolsol said:
Billabongi was on the wait list; he did not have a firts 1000.
Thanks ... didn't realize that. That means I can't think of anybody who backed out of the first 1000 so far. People may be frustrated by the delays, but I think those first 1000 are going to stick it out regardless.
 

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2Xphoenix said:
sensational journalism aside,over the long haul, i'll bet on GM over the nips. perhaps it will become necessary to help GM by enacting huge trade barriers to our markets. GM has the right formula, styling first, product first, pricing first, service first...getting it right is easier said than done. have the foreign markets always gotten it right the first time??? :rolleyes:

my new plate :yesnod:

[/IMG]
I heard something on the news last nite, think it was CBS, but for every $1 of GNP, GM makes up 1% of that. That's a pretty stong figure, a single comany being responible for 1% of total national sales dollars.

I doubt that the gov't will let anything happen to GM that will jeopardize their (GM's) future. Look at the subsidies allowed for airline mfgs, just so we can maintain an edge for our military, and also the farmers.
 

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Agree with a couple of points...like most...believe it would have been best to work the "Apprentice" angle after production was 100% set. As for losing some sales due to the extended wait...think it will be a trade off..got my sister to go order a Solstice just last Friday..Memphis dealer had 4 allocations left!
 

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conejo148 said:
I heard something on the news last nite, think it was CBS, but for every $1 of GNP, GM makes up 1% of that. That's a pretty stong figure, a single comany being responible for 1% of total national sales dollars.

I doubt that the gov't will let anything happen to GM that will jeopardize their (GM's) future. Look at the subsidies allowed for airline mfgs, just so we can maintain an edge for our military, and also the farmers.
I agree with you that the government will do it's best to bail out GM, but considering the government is essentually bankrupt as well, I don't think they'll do much until GM hits the bottom and actually has to reorganize and sell off assets. It seems clear to me that GM is doomed and the great Phoenix that was to rise and save GM aint coming.

I only hope that GM does reorganize well after the crash, and turns back into a great car company, while remaining American owned. If I were Toyota, I'd be watching this with great interest, because a buy out by them after GM hits bottom and has to sell at a fire sale price could work very well for them. I'd hate to see this happen.

Anyhow, I'm sure to get my Solstice, I'll enjoy it for a time and go back to buying Fords (if they don't go bankrupt too) if GM can't get it together.
 

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AeroDave said:
It seems clear to me that GM is doomed and the great Phoenix that was to rise and save GM aint coming.
A lot of that is media hype. Don't believe the hype.

GM may be in a bit of trouble, but they are far from DOOMED. Remember, they are still the largest automaker in the world.
 

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SlipSlider said:
A lot of that is media hype. Don't believe the hype.

GM may be in a bit of trouble, but they are far from DOOMED. Remember, they are still the largest automaker in the world.
I agree. The media really hammers GM, Ford, and Chrysler whenever they run into trouble. Its like the end of the world to the media.

Is GM in trouble? You bet. However, they are also sitting on $20 billion in cash. So they are far from bankrupt and out of business. Their car business is losing money, but they are making money on the financing end, and on OnStar. So they are not bleeding from everywhere. They are also still the worlds largest automaker, with a lot of resources that can be put into play.

They do need some changes by management and they need to continue improvements on vehicles. But doomed? Hardly.
 

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Jeep Commander

MAKsys said:
The waiting and not knowing (particularly with the suddenly nice weather) is getting pretty painful. :(
One thing that I wonder is - how much is the general public aware of the car? A month or two ago, I noticed a strange (unfamiliar) looking wagon in the parking lot at work - it was a Ford Freestyle. I'd never heard a word about it (and yet, still don't care :devil: ). Today, while driving down the expressway, I passed a new Jeep Commander (think H3 with more proportional windows) - again, something I've never even heard of :willy: .

:confused: I wonder how effective the Apprentice launch really was - I know I wouldn't have cared a wit about the show - but for the fact that I new the Solstice was going to be on it.

The real problem it that it is a beautiful day and I just know it'll be mid-December before I get my car. :banghead:
7 passenger seating, hemi, hopefully followed by fullsize pickup with sliding back end (from auto show) http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/commander/index.html
Fall 2005 introduction, so what you saw was preproduction test fleet or some such animal.
 

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SlipSlider said:
A lot of that is media hype. Don't believe the hype.

GM may be in a bit of trouble, but they are far from DOOMED. Remember, they are still the largest automaker in the world.
I should have qualified that better. I don't believe they are doomed to a complete demise, just they seem to be doomed to hit bottom and go into bail out/sell off/restructure/lay off mode. The reason I say this is because I bought into the GM hype too when they put Bob Lutz up there. I saw the Solstice concept, heard how he sent the Buick Lacross back to the styling studio for a rework and thought the G6 and GTO sounded great. I saw a turn around a Cadillac and thought maybe the rest of the divisions would follow. Great! Car guys making cars! Problem is, fast forward to the future, and it seems to be mostly hype and lacking substance.

GM seems to be able to do well enough at making specialty and niche cars these days, C6, Solstice, SSR, Sky, XLR, and GTO, but they still don't get that it's sedans, wagons, SUVs and Pickups that make or break a large car company like GM. Think of Toyota, who could be argued to be the best automaker in the world based on size, reputation and world wide market share, and where are their niche and specialty cars? Not too many. And what did GM show us this year at the auto shows that forshadows the great new product coming from GM? If there was some new life breathing product concepts out there I must have missed it.

You're right about the media hype. It is sensationalist, and they love to attack when they smell blood, but who's hype are you going to believe, the world media or GM? Bottom line is, if I can believe that what they are telling investors on Wall Street right is true, and I can't think of a great reason for them to lie, I'd have to say they are in deep trouble. This coupled with a lack of any clue as to what exactly is supposed to be turning them around, throw in seemingly bad moves and stratagies recently, and a shroud of secrecy about the plan, and I can't see a great outlook for GM in the immediate future.

As to GM's size, well, the bigger they come the harder they fall....
 

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AeroDave said:
It seems clear to me that GM is doomed.

I only hope that GM does reorganize well after the crash, and turns back into a great car company, while remaining American owned.

If I were Toyota, I'd be watching this with great interest, because a buy out by them after GM hits bottom and has to sell at a fire sale price could work very well for them...I'd hate to see this happen.
Does anyone know if foreign ownership of our U.S. car companies is allowed?
One interesting point about U.S. cars (and GM in particular) versus foreign is subsidies. If the foreign governments don't outright subsidize, they are not adversarial by definition to their car industries. Finally, where are the ashes referred to ... maybe there is some smoke, but i think the reports of GM's death may be a bit premature. :yawn:
 

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mceb said:
Germans bought Chrysler while back.

:willy: should have thought about that...
but, we own germany right??? :)

btw,
A company spokesman in Stuttgart confirmed DaimlerChrysler planned to assemble Mercedes-Benz cars in St Petersburg, but gave no financial details or any concrete schedule to begin.

Germany is widely seen as Russia's closest European ally and both Putin and Schroeder are keen to push trade links.

Mercedes cars, a symbol for many Russians of their new-found wealth, have become almost as common on the streets of Moscow as crumbling Ladas and Volgas since the Soviet Union collapsed. (Additional reporting by Michael Shields in Frankfurt)
 
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