Pontiac Solstice Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,944 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here is a video that addresses the guys everywhere, but in particular, on this site, the Solstice coupe owners that make garage queens of their cars on the theory/hope that they will some day become worth more than they paid for them (pretty unlikely if they were purchased new). If only they had the attraction of the Mercedes and about 55-60 more years of age on them, who knows?

The car that this guy restored and uses would bring around $900,000 - 1,000,000. The convertibles go for around $700,000 (one of the few cars where the coupe version is valued more highly than the convertible, if you Solstice coupe owners choose to take that as encouragement)

I did a lot of racing in the old days at Monterey and other venues and a friend used to run his 300SL with us, and drove quite hard, too. I always used to admire him for getting that sort of enjoyment out of his rare car. The guy in the video similarly uses his car as a car rather than an investment.

Poetry in Motion: Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing [video]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,136 Posts
The market will come back. Most things that are 60 or so years old and are still wanted will sell for at least new price. Of course about 60 years ago I was making $0.10 per hr.cleaning the floor at a local Ice Cream Parlor. The ones that have bought these cars as an investment are betting on the wrong horse in my opinion. Unless they are willing to keep them for at least 20 years and more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,944 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
The ones that have bought these cars as an investment are betting on the wrong horse in my opinion. Unless they are willing to keep them for at least 20 years and more.
Or a lot longer than 20 years in many cases. Some of my 50s stuff is worth more than the new price, but when you adjust for money and interest they still come out wanting. My 88 Fiero is worth about 1/4 of new at 25 years old. The old Lambo is about the only one that has exceeded inflation and is worth more than the new price (which was brutal at the time - double a V12 XKE).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,492 Posts
I think the vid is more about the reflection or the state that the hobby has slowly migrated too; investors vs enthusiasts. When he commented about being time to sell all I could think of was huh, I wonder who he'll end up selling too, an investor or an enthusiasts? I'm thinking investor (the very type of person he's ranting about).

As far as us coupe owners go, I would like to believe that the majority of us bought them to drive. True they may not be a driven daily (but they are driven). Also, this vehicle he owns is in such a higher-league than any Pontiac will every hope to be because the minority of people who could afford the car he now owns was so much smaller than it is today.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the vid, but I am saying it sounds as if its more a reflection of the mentality, or state, that the hobby of buying a car has turned from one of a pursuit of pleasure into a pursuit of investment.

Remember when car manufacturers employed craftsmen* because they were really interested in the quality of the car rather than modern manufacturer's who only seem to be primarily interested in taking advantage of the cheapest workforce on the planet.

Furthermore I'm betting very, very, few people were even aware of what a MB 300 Gullwing was back when it was introduced in the 50s. The mid-80s seems to be about the time that more and more people started looking and thinking of cars as investments rather than the primary reason they were produced; to be driven and enjoyed.


crafts·man; A man who practices a craft with great skill and pride and not only respected what he did but was respected (and compensated) by his peers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
I happen to be a solstice coupe owner. I know this may be an off topic... if it gets moved I will not be offended. I recall seeing an amusing commercial a few years back? A guy in the t-bird…and an exotic car with a male and a hot chick in the passenger seat pull up. Exotic car guy wants to race... he tells the female friend to get out and be the flagger. The female gets out of the exotic car that would obviously roast the t-bird to start the race, they rev the engines, and when the race begins ... female drops the flag, the exotic car pulls and hauls. What happen to the prudent guy? He didn't even move and asked the female if she needed a ride and she got in. I love my coupe without knowing how or when or from where. I do not worry about the car in 10 plus years while I am enjoying her right now. When driving I get imbue in my coupe and this is my opinion.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,544 Posts
Nice video, Bill. And a pretty accurate commentary, I think.

There is some misunderstanding about what constitutes a "garage queen", however. I think that keeping your car in as good condition as possible does not. Driving it only in good weather is maybe borderline, but usually not. Avoiding driving because it is almost physically painful to add miles certainly is.

I have a number of friends who are collectors, mainly of '60s muscle cars. Most of the cars that they own are now worth 20-30 times what they cost new, which sounds really good. The reality is that they are worth 2-3 times what a comparable new car is selling for now. Tripling your money with a 50 year investment that has a lot of service cost is an absolutely horrible investment, since it basically nets out to zero gain.

There are a few exceptions. The most notable in my immediate circle is a '65 Shelby Mustang that is valued in the mid-six-figures. One winner among a host of also-rans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Nice video, Bill. And a pretty accurate commentary, I think.

There is some misunderstanding about what constitutes a "garage queen", however. I think that keeping your car in as good condition as possible does not. Driving it only in good weather is maybe borderline, but usually not. Avoiding driving because it is almost physically painful to add miles certainly is.

I have a number of friends who are collectors, mainly of '60s muscle cars. Most of the cars that they own are now worth 20-30 times what they cost new, which sounds really good. The reality is that they are worth 2-3 times what a comparable new car is selling for now. Tripling your money with a 50 year investment that has a lot of service cost is an absolutely horrible investment, since it basically nets out to zero gain.

There are a few exceptions. The most notable in my immediate circle is a '65 Shelby Mustang that is valued in the mid-six-figures. One winner among a host of also-rans.
What do you mean by "service cost"? maintenance, insurance, that sort of thing?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,544 Posts
g8gt09: What do you mean by "service cost"? maintenance, insurance, that sort of thing?
Yes. All of the costs that you would not have with a conventional investment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
Hi folks,
I think the topic was garage queens vs non garage queens?

Just my two cents, my 2008 and 2009 solstice convertibles are garage queens with 7 and 4 thousand KMs on these respectively. But this isn't because we plan on selling them for a profit in a number of years,but pretty much the opposite. We never plan on selling them. But we keep them like this because we want to keep them pristine for our own enjoyment. Nothing like that new car smell and feel!

My wife's 2009 is totally stock and will remain that way. My 2008 "looks" stock but is totally reversible. Exhaust, Shocks, inter cooler pipes, brakes and rotors, all can be changed back to stock and I've saved the stock parts with only 4,000 km on them. I also purchase parts as I see them for sale.

I also don't have any undercoating on mine since it never sees the winter or rain. I replaced all parts that don't look new including the front plastic under carriage plastics that got scratched and the driver side door panel from shoe scratches when getting out.

Why? I have no plans on selling it? Can't say exactly why, but back in 1986 I bought a new Honda VFR motorcycle, I then proceeded to modify it... New front end, swing arm, carbs.... Everything. I thought it was cool then.... Now almost 30 years later I consider it f'ed up. I wish I left it stock.... Yes. I saved all the parts and I still had it as of last year. But gave it to my son in law because I didn't have the room for it or the energy to put it back to stock. He is doing that.

I guess I don't want to feel the same way with the solstice.

Cheers


Sent from my useless Autoguide iPad app
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,944 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Hi folks,
I think the topic was garage queens vs non garage queens?

Just my two cents, my 2008 and 2009 solstice convertibles are garage queens with 7 and 4 thousand KMs on these respectively.
In my book, just taking good care of your car little to do with being a garage queen. What I meant by that are the cars that sit in the garage and are rarely used in order to keep the mileage low.

My coupe only has 4000 km on it, but it lives outside and has gone to meets in the interior of BC, was down to Washington state recently, and will be heading to Idaho next month. It isn't a garage queen, despite the fairly low miles for a 3 year old car.

The ultimate garage queens are like the cars I saw at Pebble Beach when I raced regularly at the Monterey Historics at Laguna Seca. They were unloaded from trailers and pushed around so that they would never darken the brakes by being actually used (I think some of those guys had actually chromed the disc surfaces and the drums were enameled like a fresh jewel). They fired them and gently drove them at 2 MPH up the ramp at shows because concours regs required it (and had 'handlers to stop them so you didn't need the brakes, with cotton gloves on their hands lest they mark the paint) but were never used in any other way.

I know there aren't likely to be many Kappas kept as pristinely as that - the Pebble Beach cars are the out in left wing examples of how far you can go with the garage queen concept. Not sure if you still need to have a running car at Pebble these days - anyone know?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
You're right!
Compared to those cars ours won't be considered a garage queen :) that is a little extreme, even by my view point.


Sent from my useless Autoguide iPad app
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
300 Posts
Well my GXP is in the garage when not being driven. I don't take it to work (major midwest University with many foreign student drivers). So it goes out only for fun, which means not in the snow or rain. Shocked though because I have put 27,000 miles on it in two years. Every time I come home with it, bugs are washed off the front and I use quick detailer on the whole car. I even dust and clean the engine compartment. Then covered if I know I'm not going out in the next day or two. Oh yeah, I am a frequent user of Dr. Colorchip product for my GXP, does a very good job. So, do I have a garage queen!?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,544 Posts
timlange3 : Well my GXP is in the garage when not being driven. I don't take it to work (major midwest University with many foreign student drivers). So it goes out only for fun, which means not in the snow or rain. Shocked though because I have put 27,000 miles on it in two years. Every time I come home with it, bugs are washed off the front and I use quick detailer on the whole car. I even dust and clean the engine compartment. Then covered if I know I'm not going out in the next day or two. Oh yeah, I am a frequent user of Dr. Colorchip product for my GXP, does a very good job. So, do I have a garage queen!?
My opinion ?

You have a carefully (maybe obsessively) maintained car. Not a garage queen.

As he stated, DragonSolGXP has two garage queens.

Bill, as far as I know, the car still has to be functional. It has to start, and the instruments as well as all of the lights have to work. They don't check windshield wipers any more though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Yes. All of the costs that you would not have with a conventional investment.
But wouldn't those costs be a fixed expense no matter what car you own? Still, assuming those fixed expenses (costs) even if you sold the car at purchase price wouldn't you come out ahead in the long run?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
303 Posts
I happen to be a solstice coupe owner. I know this may be an off topic... if it gets moved I will not be offended. I recall seeing an amusing commercial a few years back? A guy in the t-bird…and an exotic car with a male and a hot chick in the passenger seat pull up. Exotic car guy wants to race... he tells the female friend to get out and be the flagger. The female gets out of the exotic car that would obviously roast the t-bird to start the race, they rev the engines, and when the race begins ... female drops the flag, the exotic car pulls and hauls. What happen to the prudent guy? He didn't even move and asked the female if she needed a ride and she got in. I love my coupe without knowing how or when or from where. I do not worry about the car in 10 plus years while I am enjoying her right now. When driving I get imbue in my coupe and this is my opinion.
I remember the commercial. Exotic car was Lotus Esprit. That T Bird is generally seen as a monumental failure, not at all collectible nor anticipated to be, and in real life the Esprit owner would get the girl AND win the race.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,944 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
In fairness I believe the first post was not inflammatory but pointed out the differences within the Kappa community (not countries). And you can't argue how much the guy in the video loved his car!
Yeah, it wasn't meant to be inflammatory at all, it was just a take on how we use our cars from another owner of a really expensive collectable. I thought it might interest people here, that's all.

I remember the commercial. Exotic car was Lotus Esprit. That T Bird is generally seen as a monumental failure, not at all collectible nor anticipated to be, and in real life the Esprit owner would get the girl AND win the race.
Yeah, the recycled T Bird reminds me of movie remakes or American dumbed down conversions of British TV series - they rarely work out as well as the original did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
I watched the video again. It's well done and that car is really beautiful. Love the way it sounds.

Reminds me of the episode of Madmen that recently had a 60s Jag ... Two actually. One was red and later on, racing green. Beautiful car, but not very reliable. But I would still treasure it. Not starting is just one of its characteristics.

Our solstices have similar characteristics in a way. It's just part of the car. If I wanted a 100% reliable car I could have bought a Corolla or Acura. But it won't have the lines or be as much fun to drive as the solstice.

Edit - those Jags were the E Type Coupes. they are also available in convertibles.

Sent from my useless Autoguide iPad app
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
991 Posts
Had the coupe come out in 07, I probably would have bought one instead, having never owned a convertible before.

My reason was I was buying a toy I could play with, not leave in the shrink wrap to preserve it's collectible potential (which is what I do with the scale models of it I buy). That is what I enjoyed about the video, he has fun with his toy (plus it's a cool ride). He lets others worry about preserving pristine examples of his toy.

I don't drive it to work (save on insurance) and I don't drive it in the winter which has the side benefit of having a new toy every spring. I do have it rust proofed since I don't live in an arid climate.

Yes, the coupe has the potential of becoming collectible. If it turns your crank not to turn it's crank then so be it, it's your ride (or would that be sit :jester:).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
710 Posts
I don't think old cars will ever be as collectible as they are now. The baby boomers (including me) are car fanatics, and we now have the disposible income to pay a high price for collectible cars. The younger generations, for the most part, don't have the interest in cars that we do. I bought my SKY because it's discontinued, and there aren't many around, but I'm not expecting it to increase in value. My hope is that it will depreciate more slowly than the average car. In the meantime, I'm enjoying driving it. It's not a daily driver, but not a garage queen either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
I don't think old cars will ever be as collectible as they are now. The baby boomers (including me) are car fanatics, and we now have the disposible income to pay a high price for collectible cars. The younger generations, for the most part, don't have the interest in cars that we do. I bought my SKY because it's discontinued, and there aren't many around, but I'm not expecting it to increase in value. My hope is that it will depreciate more slowly than the average car. In the meantime, I'm enjoying driving it. It's not a daily driver, but not a garage queen either.
Hi,
I think you're right. I was a teenager in the early seventies and we did things such as dropped a v8 into a vega, drove 68 mustangs and chargers. Cars were part of growing up. Can't speak for the rest but I had more interest in cars than girls at the time. I don't see that anymore.

Wish I would have bought and kept one those cars. My friend had a late sixties Shelby if I remember correctly. Another had a charger and a camaro with line lock, used to smoke out the high school parking lot the last day of school.




Sent from my useless Autoguide iPad app
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top