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Discussion Starter #61
just to set the record straight.

Ombudsman on this forum has NO POWER...so there is no glory...no throne of kings to sit upon....and no velvet cape to wear :lol:

A lot of people do not approach the mods as easily as they would a grunt in the trenches to air a beef...ask a question or lodge a complaint.

The ombudsman is a MESSENGER. accepted by the MOD SQUAD de facto.

people can vent and unload on an ombudsman who can then edit and encapsulate the issue and pass it on to the mods for review and resolution.

No one said it had to be me.

Call for nominations and a vote...won't bother me a bit.
I'm no empire builder...read my avatar...
I just want to help fix what is broken or been damaged over the past year.

peace in the valley
 

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just to set the record straight.

Ombudsman on this forum has NO POWER...so there is no glory...no throne of kings to sit upon....and no velvet cape to wear :lol:

A lot of people do not approach the mods as easily as they would a grunt in the trenches to air a beef...ask a question or lodge a complaint.

The ombudsman is a MESSENGER. accepted by the MOD SQUAD de facto.

people can vent and unload on an ombudsman who can then edit and encapsulate the issue and pass it on to the mods for review and resolution.

No one said it had to be me.

Call for nominations and a vote...won't bother me a bit.
I'm no empire builder...read my avatar...
I just want to help fix what is broken or been damaged over the past year.

peace in the valley
Let us all know your input - think it's a good idea? Not so good? Suggestions? Nominations if you think this ombudsman thing is a good idea?

I think this thread has helped quite a bit so far. I think the main thing is to start opening lines of communication and constantly improving. I think we've been lax there, and anything that gets information flowing and ideas moving is a good idea...

...but those are only MY thoughts. What're all yours?
 

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No velvet cape?!? If nominated I will NOT run, If elected I will NOT serve.
---5907---
..no cape but there is an ombudsman hat



just stay back from the xxrossers
 

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Let us all know your input - think it's a good idea? Not so good? Suggestions? Nominations if you think this ombudsman thing is a good idea?

I think this thread has helped quite a bit so far. I think the main thing is to start opening lines of communication and constantly improving. I think we've been lax there, and anything that gets information flowing and ideas moving is a good idea...

...but those are only MY thoughts. What're all yours?
Since he's willing, please consider my earlier post as a nomination of Druid 2 for Ombudsman or as a candidate for same if it comes to such a process leading to a vote. And good luck to all who are willing to serve.
 

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Discussion Starter #66
John

please invoke Robert's Rules of Order

as senior mod on line right now ( Ithink) and per Bird's post

do this proper...

Invoke RR o R....ask for nominations...seconds and the nominee must accept.
suggest you run it for 72 hours and then close it
and then put the names on a poll...and run it for a pre-determined length of time.
 

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Discussion Starter #67

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Let us all know your input - think it's a good idea? Not so good? Suggestions? Nominations if you think this ombudsman thing is a good idea?
Personally I don't see the need for an Ombudsman on the forum, but maybe that is just because I do not have a problem addressing an issue to a person that is in a position of authority directly or to an individual in question. I realize that some people may not do things the same as I do.

The Moderators and Administrators of this forum are very accessible and will (have) explain(ed) their actions when asked. I am also sure that they talk behind the scenes before they take an action that may come across as heavy handed or cause a controversy. What they don't put up with, and shouldn't, is a direct challenge or putdown of the Mod Team in an open discussion. It is my understanding that they are much more likely to listen to a polite query in a PM than a demand in an open discussion.

I have not seen them go overboard to an extent that would require a third party intervention from someone with no authority. To me that just adds another layer of bureaucracy to a forum that is a community.

In my former life I had many occasions to work with people that were adamant in their point of view and did not want to see or hear anything that did not fit with their view. In these cases it did not matter how many other folks tried to explain or interpret what was happening they refused to change, I don't see how adding an Ombudsman will overcome that nature.

If there is an Ombudsman will direct contact to Moderators and Admins be cut off? If not, what is the point of the Ombudsman? If so, why do we need Moderators?

This thread proves that any member can bring forward an issue for discussion and be taken seriously by the Moderation and Adminstrator Team.
 

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Personally I don't see the need for an Ombudsman on the forum, but maybe that is just because I do not have a problem addressing an issue to a person that is in a position of authority directly or to an individual in question. I realize that some people may not do things the same as I do.

The Moderators and Administrators of this forum are very accessible and will (have) explain(ed) their actions when asked. I am also sure that they talk behind the scenes before they take an action that may come across as heavy handed or cause a controversy. What they don't put up with, and shouldn't, is a direct challenge or putdown of the Mod Team in an open discussion. It is my understanding that they are much more likely to listen to a polite query in a PM than a demand in an open discussion.

I have not seen them go overboard to an extent that would require a third party intervention from someone with no authority. To me that just adds another layer of bureaucracy to a forum that is a community.

In my former life I had many occasions to work with people that were adamant in their point of view and did not want to see or hear anything that did not fit with their view. In these cases it did not matter how many other folks tried to explain or interpret what was happening they refused to change, I don't see how adding an Ombudsman will overcome that nature.

If there is an Ombudsman will direct contact to Moderators and Admins be cut off? If not, what is the point of the Ombudsman? If so, why do we need Moderators?

This thread proves that any member can bring forward an issue for discussion and be taken seriously by the Moderation and Adminstrator Team.
Very well put and I tend to agree with all you said.

I believe (and correct me if I am wrong D2) that the reason this has come up is because there is are some individuals on the forum who do not feel they can bring issues to the mods, either in public or in private, without fear of reprisals.

It is really unfortunate that they feel this way, because anything could be farther from the truth. However, in situations like this, perception is reality. So even if having a go-thru contact that they do trust is the right way to go, then that wouldn't be so bad.

If that were to happen, IMO it would not be the only way of contact between the forum and the mod team. In fact, if that were the setup, I would be completely opposed to the idea. Anyone, at anytime, could contact any moderator they felt comfortable with.

Let me add, we all do get contacted often by the forum too. So we do know this is not a universal feeling among the membership as a whole.



I think I speak for everyone on the team when I say that we are all very approachable and willing to listen to someone's thoughts or feelings. As you said, we are not very receptive to public forum comments that read more like attacks, or make issues personal. However, we have no problem with issues brought to us in PM, or even polite threads in public (such as this roundtable).

So I would urge people not to be afraid of us either. We carry a title of moderator, but we are really just members of this forum as all of you are, and our interest is for the betterment of the forum. Everyone is open to ideas, and willing to listen and discuss. Nobody is going to hold a grudge, or make reprisals because of it. In fact, we would often like to hear more from the forum on how we are doing, what they would like to see, etc. It is everyone's forum, and things work best when the membership at large assumes more ownership!
 

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John

please invoke Robert's Rules of Order

as senior mod on line right now ( Ithink) and per Bird's post

do this proper...

Invoke RR o R....ask for nominations...seconds and the nominee must accept.
suggest you run it for 72 hours and then close it
and then put the names on a poll...and run it for a pre-determined length of time.
Don't put him on the spot. Thats unfair to him and the rest of the mod team. Besides, there does not appear to be a critical hurry to just rush into this either. Plus, the weekend is never a good time for this sort of thing as a lot of members spend far less time on the forum over the weekend.

If you have issues already you would like to address with the mod team, you may go ahead and do so even though your not an official ombudsman. Nobody needs an appointment or title to send us a message.
 

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Personally I don't see the need for an Ombudsman on the forum, but maybe that is just because I do not have a problem addressing an issue to a person that is in a position of authority directly or to an individual in question. I realize that some people may not do things the same as I do.

The Moderators and Administrators of this forum are very accessible and will (have) explain(ed) their actions when asked. I am also sure that they talk behind the scenes before they take an action that may come across as heavy handed or cause a controversy. What they don't put up with, and shouldn't, is a direct challenge or putdown of the Mod Team in an open discussion. It is my understanding that they are much more likely to listen to a polite query in a PM than a demand in an open discussion.

I have not seen them go overboard to an extent that would require a third party intervention from someone with no authority. To me that just adds another layer of bureaucracy to a forum that is a community.

In my former life I had many occasions to work with people that were adamant in their point of view and did not want to see or hear anything that did not fit with their view. In these cases it did not matter how many other folks tried to explain or interpret what was happening they refused to change, I don't see how adding an Ombudsman will overcome that nature.

If there is an Ombudsman will direct contact to Moderators and Admins be cut off? If not, what is the point of the Ombudsman? If so, why do we need Moderators?

This thread proves that any member can bring forward an issue for discussion and be taken seriously by the Moderation and Adminstrator Team.

Good post :thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #73
Wasn't trying to hurry things...was concerned about protocol
 

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I'd like to HAVE BACK...the ability to PM more than one person at a time...without paying a " fee"

as a run co-ordinator i often have to send the same PM 5 separate times...
WOFT in my mind
:agree: :agree: :agree:
 

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Post Pigs is a very difficult thing to control. The only real way is through moderation. People can be warned, posts can be deleted, etc. We have tried that in the past, but what ends up happening is that the mod team begins to appear to be overmoderating. Cries of overmodderating start coming in, feelings get hurt from the deleted posts, etc. Instead of this, we have more recently removed post counts, and most recently removed posts in certain sections from people’s post counts. Those actions are to try and contain the post races people get into to just boos their post count, which is where a lot of those free posts come from. The worst offenders can sometimes be brought in line, but it is not easy.

The best solution is for people on an individual basis to place those users on their “ignore” lists. That way, you would not see any of the posts from those users. The downside, if they have a valuable post you would miss that too.

If you or anyone can think of another good angle that can be tried, or a wrinkle to what we have already tried, we would certainly give it a shot!
Hi, I thought this area a good place to initiate my first words.
Post Pigs.
I think you can regulate the number of characters in a post. For example, if you have not posted 15 characters, you will be asked to try again, or something like that.
Same goes for overlimits causing a Huge 20,000 character posting to be split according to forum software limits. I've experienced both on other forums.

Something to look into, that could possibly cease the single emoticon posts.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
if the software can be made to do this...defintely YES
 

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Just a personal comment from one of the "grunts." If I have a problem, whether on the Forum or in my job, I don't want to go to an in-between person, I want to go to the source. I've been on the Forum since February of 2005, and I'm a founding member. I've NEVER had a time that I couldn't go directly to a Mod and asked for help or to discuss a problem or "situation" that bothered me. The idea of adding another layer between the members and the Mods just doesn't make sense to me, especially when the layer has no power. It's like adding a suggestion box so nobody has to reveal their identity. If somebody needs to say something to the Mods it needs to be done in "person" not through some additional layer who is conveying what they think the member means. Only the person with the concern can really state their feelings and answer questions from the Mods. We all need to remember that this is not our Forum, it belongs to, and is run by Troy. If he decides tomorrow that we all need to post in lower case letters, then that is the new rule. We have to decide whether we are going to follow the rules, and the direction given from the Forum owner to the Mods, or whether we want to move on. I agree that suggestions are good, businesses grow by responding to good suggestions. The difference here is that we are guests on the Forum and we have no ownership, even those of us who have contributed funds to gain larger PM boxes and larger Avatars. My suggestion is just this, review the suggestions given, consider those which will help the Forum grow, or get better than it already is, and throw the rest away. Simple is better....let's keep it simple and discuss items directly with the Mods when needed. The Mods aren't our enemies, they are fellow Forum members with the same car passion we have acting together to keep Troy's Forum the great Forum it is with the rules Troy wants followed. JMHO
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Good post Dan

they idea of an ombudsman just sorta happened over a period of a couple of days in the course of a whole slew of PM 's between me and a bunch of mods.

I think that a poll should be intitiated on two counts.

First count...do we need..should we have...an ombudman...If the majority say no then the case is closed and everyone goes back to PM'ing the mod's with any and all issues.

Second count..if the majority WANT an ombudsman then we have a referendum/vote and appoint one...or the Mod's do it on their own...or TROY does it on his own...it is- after all- his sandbox.

The only valid point for an ombudsman was not brought up by me...but by a mod....who wondered if a lot of the members were "intimidated" by PM'ing a mod and would be more able to communicate their issue to "the common man"

In all honesty when I first used the word ombudsman the PM from the mod came back " Isn't that what you already are?"

Dan..re-read my avatar...I was all set to quit and leave the forum. I decided...I'm gonna stay and help put this back together.
Personally I don't care if we have an ombudsman..I just want things back they way they were...say Oct. 2005. Too much in-fighting...to much of this...too much of that....we've gone from 2500 members last August to over 6000 now and the growing pains are evident.

Dori-san or dylan01 or FredinVa or Carlintexas or anyone can do just as good a job as anyone else- IF we decide to appoint an ombudsman, but the olive branch was extended from the other end...not from me ...

I just want to enjoy myself on this forum

Isn't that what it is really all about ???

(peace in the valley)
D-2
 

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Mike,
My opinion is simple. I don't think we need anyone between the members and the Mods. It's just my opinion, but I would guess lots of other members would agree. We all have to decied what we do each day and where we go from here. This Forum has a fantastic group of people who love a beautiful car. I don't see hugh problems, I see diffenrence in opinions which is normal. In the end it will be what Troy decides is right, not what we decide, and it will be our decision as to where we go from there.
 
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