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GM Firm That Solstice Will Not Get A V-6

Chicago Tribune

October 10, 2004
BYLINE: By Jim Mateja, Tribune auto reporter.



Though a little more than six months from making its first showroom appearance, the 2006 Pontiac Solstice still is embroiled in a debate over whether it should be offered with a 6-cylinder engine.

A 6, the argument goes, would give the roadster more performance appeal.

But don't look for it to happen, insists Jim Queen, vice president of North American engineering for General Motors.

"Solstice isn't meant for a 6-cylinder," Queen says, noting that the small, rear-wheel-drive Kappa platform would have to be stretched to hold a 6. That means added cost besides that for the larger engine in a vehicle targeted to start at about $20,000.

"If people want a 6, then they'll have to get another GM vehicle, and we have a lot of them," Queen said.

So Solstice will offer a 2.4-liter, 170-horsepower 4-cylinder engine.

And no supercharger or turbocharger to boost the 4?

"I'm not saying yes to a turbocharger or supercharger," Queen said as he broke into a smile and slowly added: "But I'm not saying no to a turbocharger or supercharger, either."



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I haven't been on the board in a while, so if this is old news... sue me but.... didn't that article state that the Solstice is roughly 6 months from being on showroom floors?
 

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That's a little sooner then we were even hoping. Six months from now is Early April timeframe. But being in first showeroom appearance is different then being available for sale in showrooms probably.
 

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Read them's lips: ""Solstice isn't meant for a 6-cylinder," Queen says, noting that the small, rear-wheel-drive Kappa platform would have to be stretched to hold a 6."

The only reason to stretch would be for an Inline six. Not a V-6 which is about the same length as an inline four. Width is greater but similar to a DOHC four with a supercharger on the side.

Intake plenium in the Vee also tends to make the engine taller (why they changed the hoodline of the 85 Fiero to have the bump in the middle).

Will agree that there will be just one engine at intro and that will probably be the 2.4 (might be the existing 2.2) EcoTech.

Personally think the 2.4 with the published specs (98 mm stroke) is a kinda dumb engine. DOHC for really high rpm and too long a stroke to withstand it without special components. Long stroke makes for great torque but even if nothing flies apart, the IHP will kill you at high RPM.

OTOH I have replaced the head gasket on a Quad-4 with DOHC (a "parent" to the EcoTech) and it is a jigsaw puzzle to get all of the layers right. GM never did seem to figure out the proper process to tighten the head bolts, know of at least four different instructions. Do need a "tighten once" head gasket since retorqueing requires a major disassembly to get at all. Guess they plan on a lifetime engine.
 

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solsticeman said:
...a little more THAN six months....

That means prolly no earlier than May 05.
Even May is earlier then previous June/July rumors we had been hearing. But like I said before, who knows what they actually mean will be available at that time.
 

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Maybe by stretched, they mean stretched width-wise to fit the V6 between the frame rails. At any ate, I do not find it a surprise the Solstice would not get a V6. All along the rumor has been an N/A four and probably a Turbo-/C four. Notice how they didn’t say yes to it, but they made a point of not saying there would NOT be a turbo or S/C either.

Now, this doesn’t mean another Kappa wouldn’t get a V6 either. They said Kappa wasn’t designed for it, but only that Solstice would not get it. That leaves the Saturn and future products open for the possibility of a V6. They say buyers can get another GM car, but you also know GM will find a way to get a V6 into it if they think demand is there.

A little more than 6 months places it at least into May, and I would bet closer to June of next year for release. Maybe shipments to start in May, but realistic supply not hitting lots until June. Without splitting hairs, the good news is that it now appears the car will be released a lot sooner than we had originally thought!
 

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Yeah, the V6/i6 issues with the Solstice might have to do with things like the hood too. I'm not sure how much more headroom a V6/i6 would take up over a i4.
 

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naoki said:
I haven't been on the board in a while, so if this is old news... sue me but.... didn't that article state that the Solstice is roughly 6 months from being on showroom floors?
Nothing official but more and more articles are pointing to spring/summer release (IMO). My guess is this winter Pontiac will make the official annoucement.
 

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I never thought there was any real thought to putting a 6 in the Solstice. I thought all the talk about 6's was just people like us cogitating over the posibilities, I don't remember anything anywhere that was official that even hinted at the posibility. Seems weird to me that they would even bother to come out and state that.

My feeling has always been that the Solstice was never ment to be a 6 or an 8, that it was supposed to me a simple, light, low cost Miata fighter. Forced induction is almost certain to happen eventually, but a 6 seems out of the question for Solstice. Saturn on the other hand... like f88 said, this doesn't mean Kappa can't have a 6. In fact I think it would be very poor planning on GM's part to not anticipate a 6 cylinder Kappa. Well I guess if enough people bitch and moan about it, a 6 might come to Solstice eventually like it did for the Fiero. Personaly, I don't want one, the four will be fine for me. :thumbs

I bet the earliest we see Solstice actually in the showrooms is July. Maybe we should start a pool on the actual release date? :jester
 

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padgett said:
Read them's lips: ""Solstice isn't meant for a 6-cylinder," Queen says, noting that the small, rear-wheel-drive Kappa platform would have to be stretched to hold a 6."

The only reason to stretch would be for an Inline six. Not a V-6 which is about the same length as an inline four. Width is greater but similar to a DOHC four with a supercharger on the side.

Intake plenium in the Vee also tends to make the engine taller (why they changed the hoodline of the 85 Fiero to have the bump in the middle).

Will agree that there will be just one engine at intro and that will probably be the 2.4 (might be the existing 2.2) EcoTech.

....

He didn't say which direction it needed to be stretched. Laterally is how I interpreted it.

Another thing I've learned, turbos tend to be more "package-friendly". :)

Engine at introduction is the 2.4 liter, variable cam timed ecotech. No doubt about this.
 

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AeroDave said:
...I bet the earliest we see Solstice actually in the showrooms is July. Maybe we should start a pool on the actual release date? :jester

Sorry, wouldn't be fair to some of you/us... :jester
 

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Yeah, I agree that I think the Solstice should stay a i4, and given the choice of a forced induction i4 over a v6/i6 I'll go with the forced induction. I've never been a big fan of having to shove giant engines in little cars for more power.
 

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My crystal ball predicts an upscale Kappa (Buick or Caddi) a few years down the line with an upper thirties base list with a V6 to compete with the Crossfire and all the other roadsters in that market. Feel a V6 in a Saturn (GM's value line) wouldn't fit their product identity. And doubt they'd put one in a Vaxhaul or Opel, for which the Lightning is destined.
 

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Must admit I'm biased, forced induction is for over 10,000 feet.
1) Would prefer to get the same power on 20% cheaper gas.
2) Do not care for all of the extra equipment/lower MTBF required.

But suppose it is easier for the general to charge $1k+ extra for a blower than $200 for a V-6.
 

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DreamerDave said:
My crystal ball predicts an upscale Kappa (Buick or Caddi) a few years down the line with an upper thirties base list with a V6 to compete with the Crossfire and all the other roadsters in that market. Feel a V6 in a Saturn (GM's value line) wouldn't fit their product identity. And doubt they'd put one in a Vaxhaul or Opel, for which the Lightning is destined.
I mentioned Saturn as a possibility ONLY because there is strong rumors that they want to take the Saturn brand up market and pull it away from its small econo-box image. So I figure a V6 roadster with upscale appointments would be a good place to start! Not saying it will happen at all, or that they actually will take the Saturn brand up market either. Just a littel speculating based on some rumors. :smile
 

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solsticeman said:
Sorry, wouldn't be fair to some of you/us... :jester
Whaaa..... FAIR??? All I'd love to know is what's your b-day;), or even more general, your sign (astrological) ;);););););) We'd all glady let you take the pool if we just knew your sign;)!!!

This is fun, like going to a movie, and trying to figure out the ending with all those little clues :lurk !!!
 

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DreamerDave said:
My crystal ball predicts an upscale Kappa (Buick or Caddi) a few years down the line with an upper thirties base list with a V6 to compete with the Crossfire and all the other roadsters in that market. Feel a V6 in a Saturn (GM's value line) wouldn't fit their product identity. And doubt they'd put one in a Vaxhaul or Opel, for which the Lightning is destined.
DreamerDave, you'd better polish your ball. Oops, that didn't come out right...

V6 in a Kappa? Look it up at ww.notgonnahappen.com.

BTW - Define "a few years". 'Cause we know from GM's Showcar concept to showroom is a minimum of 3 years, more like 3 1/2. Maybe you've seen a Kappa Kaddy? I know I haven't...

Even if they pull one out of their a$$, it's still 2 years from showcar to showroom. My guess, and this is really just a guess, is look for the Saturn Kappa (which C&G is implying is now called the "Sky" :rolleyes ) to show at NAIAS, and show up in dealers at the start of a normal model year 2007 - and very little underpinning differeces from the Solstice. That would be decent, only 1 1/2 years from Concept to Showroom, but relies on no difference in wheelbase, track, overall structural dimensions, etc.

For a V-6 (which DOES NOT FIT) and 2+2 seats and hardtop roof, that's more like the 3 years from showcar to showroom.
 

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DreamerDave said:
My crystal ball predicts an upscale Kappa (Buick or Caddi) a few years down the line with an upper thirties base list with a V6 to compete with the Crossfire and all the other roadsters in that market. Feel a V6 in a Saturn (GM's value line) wouldn't fit their product identity. And doubt they'd put one in a Vaxhaul or Opel, for which the Lightning is destined.
Ahh, but they're trying to move Saturn upscale. REF: all of the articles about the hush-hush Pebble Beach Concours de Elegance (or however it's spelt) Saturn show.
 
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