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I posted the article preparing us for this a few days ago and it drew very little reaction. I wonder if people will take notice now? :confused:
 

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It's About the Benefits

Saturday's NY times front page:
"For A GM Family, the American Dream Vanishes"
subtitle: "The blue-collar road to a middle-class life reaches a dead end."

GM is forcing Delphi to shift thousands of jobs oversees.

Rick Wagoner, GM Chairman said "If I look at our priority list on the things we need to do to get cost-competitive, wage rates are nowhere near the top for us. Frankly, in our business, the progress in improving productivity has been dramatic. Over a 10 year period, we have gone from a ballpark of 40-plus hours a vehicle in assembly to a 20-plus hours a vehicle."
 

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MSG_McKee said:
I posted the article preparing us for this a few days ago and it drew very little reaction. I wonder if people will take notice now? :confused:
You put it (correctly) in the auto industry news section. But no one looks at that section.
 

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Everyone say thanks to everyone who has a toyota or Nissan in the driveway.
 

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I used to think that way , but then I drove past the employee parking lot at the GM power train plant on Alexis Rd in Toledo Ohio.
 

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From this I am reading that the Grand Prix is no longer after 2008.


Closure Details
Assembly plants
Oklahoma City, Okla., with 2,734 employees, will cease production in early 2006.
Lansing, Mich., Craft Centre, 398 employees, will cease production in mid-2006.
Spring Hill, Tenn., Plant/Line No. 1, will cease production at end of 2006. Total plant employment: 5,776.
Doraville, Ga., 3,076 employees, will cease production at the end of current products' run in 2008.
Third shift will be eliminated at Oshawa Car Plant No. 1, in Ontario, Canada, in the second half of 2006. Oshawa Car Plant No. 2 will end production after the current product runs out in 2008.
Third shift will be eliminated at Moraine, Ohio, in 2006, with timing to be based on market demand. Total plant employment: 4,165.

Stamping, power train and service operations
Lansing, Mich., Metal Center, 1,398 employees, will cease production in 2006.
Pittsburgh, Pa., Metal Center, 613 employees, will cease production in 2007.
Parts Distribution Center in Portland, Ore., will cease operations in 2006.
Parts Distribution Center in St. Louis, Mo., will be converted to a collision center facility in 2006.
Parts Processing Center in Ypsilanti, Mich., will cease operations in 2007.
One additional Parts Processing Center, to be announced later, will cease operations in 2007.
St. Catharines Ontario Street West powertrain components facility in Ontario, Canada, 1,699 employees, will cease production in 2008.
Flint, Mich., North 3800 engine facility ("Factory 36"), 2,677 employees, will cease production in 2008.
 

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dealernut said:
Everyone say thanks to everyone who has a toyota or Nissan in the driveway.
I think everyone should say thanks to the GM corporate beaurocracy who over the last couple decades has allowed the competitors to slowly develop and build higher quality vehicles, while they instead tried to maximize short term profits without looking at long term goals and consequences. GM corporate tried to maximize their short term profit with no regard to long term consequences. As a result, they fell behind (in some areas far behind) in platform design, plant utilization, body design, interior design, and powertrain design.

They have been slow to react to industry changes (such as flexible plants that can make more than one vehicle), and have designed vehicles tailored to existing tooling despite the design consequences. For instance, the Chevy Malibu is sort of boxing looking not because GM really wanted to square it off like that, but because they wanted it to fit through the existing tooling at the plant where they make it, and the Epsilon platform was pushing the size envelope for that plant, so they simply squared off the edges to try and maximize interior room and get the car down the assembly line. Yeah, that makes it cheaper in upfront tooling costs, but it also hurts Chevy by giving them a car with styling that may not be seen as "favorable" by potential buyers, and drive them elsewhere. As far as plant utilization, other companies have been retooling plants that can make cars built on multiple platforms. That allows them to make niche vehicles cheaper, but it also allows them to utilize their workforce more efficiently. If one car tanks, they just make another car there. GM on the other hand, is stuck making specific cars at specific plants. So if the car doesn't sell well, they have to lay off workers, or make the cars anyway and sell them at big discounts for a loss just to keep the workforce working (sound familiar, it should). Since laid off workers get nearly all their pay anyway, it is cheaper for GM to sell the cars for a loss, than to just let workers go idle.

That is just the tip of the iceburg too. GM has been rated as having the worst relationship with suppliers too, which can lead to inferior parts. They are also constantly demanding cheaper parts to cut their own costs, which has led to many of their quality problems over the years as parts suppliers just make "cheaper" parts to meet the demand.

There are other aspects. Political aspects have helped the foreign nameplates for instance. But in a way, GM (and Ford and Chrysler) have been their own worst enemies. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, they just stepped into a void that the big 3 created on their own.

The shame of it all is that American is losing it's last good paying manufacturing jobs. Of course, the UAW (ie labor) cannot be seen as a total victim in this either, since they are involved in the collective bargaining with GM that made those jobs as lucrative as they are and have been reluctant to do scaled rollbacks of some of those perks and pay to try and keep those jobs in place. In a way, the UAW has consistently bargained to keep the high wages in exchange for layoffs and plant closures. So this method of cost cutting is sort of business as usual for labor too.
 

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dealernut said:
From this I am reading that the Grand Prix is no longer after 2008.
That is probably just the end of it's planned product cycle. Production of it's replacement (if it is replaced) would likely be shifted to a different facility where they make other vehicles on the same platform, or even to a facility that has been converted to flexable manufacturing. By 2008, the current GP will be long in the tooth, both in it's current styling and it's current platform.

More surprising to me is the impending closure of Spring Hill, TN. Ion production will shift to Lordstown OH, and Vue production to the CAMI facility in London Ont. That plant is one of GM's highest rated and newest facilities. Rumors were that it would be slated for RWD sedan production, and that was why GM was clearing it out, but these articles lead me to think they are just going to shutter it.
 

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Fformula88 said:
I think everyone should say thanks to the GM corporate beaurocracy who over the last couple decades has allowed the competitors to slowly develop and build higher quality vehicles, while they instead tried to maximize short term profits without looking at long term goals and consequences. GM corporate tried to maximize their short term profit with no regard to long term consequences. As a result, they fell behind (in some areas far behind) in platform design, plant utilization, body design, interior design, and powertrain design.

They have been slow to react to industry changes (such as flexible plants that can make more than one vehicle), and have designed vehicles tailored to existing tooling despite the design consequences. For instance, the Chevy Malibu is sort of boxing looking not because GM really wanted to square it off like that, but because they wanted it to fit through the existing tooling at the plant where they make it, and the Epsilon platform was pushing the size envelope for that plant, so they simply squared off the edges to try and maximize interior room and get the car down the assembly line. Yeah, that makes it cheaper in upfront tooling costs, but it also hurts Chevy by giving them a car with styling that may not be seen as "favorable" by potential buyers, and drive them elsewhere. As far as plant utilization, other companies have been retooling plants that can make cars built on multiple platforms. That allows them to make niche vehicles cheaper, but it also allows them to utilize their workforce more efficiently. If one car tanks, they just make another car there. GM on the other hand, is stuck making specific cars at specific plants. So if the car doesn't sell well, they have to lay off workers, or make the cars anyway and sell them at big discounts for a loss just to keep the workforce working (sound familiar, it should). Since laid off workers get nearly all their pay anyway, it is cheaper for GM to sell the cars for a loss, than to just let workers go idle.

That is just the tip of the iceburg too. GM has been rated as having the worst relationship with suppliers too, which can lead to inferior parts. They are also constantly demanding cheaper parts to cut their own costs, which has led to many of their quality problems over the years as parts suppliers just make "cheaper" parts to meet the demand.

There are other aspects. Political aspects have helped the foreign nameplates for instance. But in a way, GM (and Ford and Chrysler) have been their own worst enemies. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, they just stepped into a void that the big 3 created on their own.

The shame of it all is that American is losing it's last good paying manufacturing jobs. Of course, the UAW (ie labor) cannot be seen as a total victim in this either, since they are involved in the collective bargaining with GM that made those jobs as lucrative as they are and have been reluctant to do scaled rollbacks of some of those perks and pay to try and keep those jobs in place. In a way, the UAW has consistently bargained to keep the high wages in exchange for layoffs and plant closures. So this method of cost cutting is sort of business as usual for labor too.
:agree: And I say this as an 11 year GM employee, and the son of a retiree. I have watch GM through the years do some of the stupidest things imaginable, limit their products to what they want to sell, not what the consumer wants to buy, squander money instead of reinvesting it properly. And yes, I also hold the UAW at fault. Instead of fighting to get training and education for the union members to make them more competitive in the global market, they fight for those that should not have a job in the first place. An example of this, I recently had a manager harassing me. I show up to work everyday, and do my job (very well also). Instead of the union protecting me from the harassment, the union is busy having a meeting with manage to try and figure out how they can get the job back for a member that in the last 5 years has only worked 30 days.

GM and the UAW have broght them on themselves.
 

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Fformula88 said:
That is probably just the end of it's planned product cycle. Production of it's replacement (if it is replaced) would likely be shifted to a different facility where they make other vehicles on the same platform, or even to a facility that has been converted to flexable manufacturing. By 2008, the current GP will be long in the tooth, both in it's current styling and it's current platform.

More surprising to me is the impending closure of Spring Hill, TN. Ion production will shift to Lordstown OH, and Vue production to the CAMI facility in London Ont. That plant is one of GM's highest rated and newest facilities. Rumors were that it would be slated for RWD sedan production, and that was why GM was clearing it out, but these articles lead me to think they are just going to shutter it.

Yeah I agree. But remember the Oshuwa Plant was the top rated/safest plant in all of North America. I was suprised that they would be closing it completely. even if they shut down the Grand Prix(which may be a good thing).
 

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dealernut said:
Yeah I agree. But remember the Oshuwa Plant was the top rated/safest plant in all of North America. I was suprised that they would be closing it completely. even if they shut down the Grand Prix(which may be a good thing).
Good point. Maybe they plan to close it because of older tooling? They don't want to reinvest in the plant to update it? Closing Canadian plants is a little curious anyway, since the Canadian workers don't make quite as much as American workers, and of course Canada picks up the health care tab for GM.
 

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deacon said:
:agree: And I say this as an 11 year GM employee, and the son of a retiree. I have watch GM through the years do some of the stupidest things imaginable, limit their products to what they want to sell, not what the consumer wants to buy, squander money instead of reinvesting it properly. And yes, I also hold the UAW at fault. Instead of fighting to get training and education for the union members to make them more competitive in the global market, they fight for those that should not have a job in the first place. An example of this, I recently had a manager harassing me. I show up to work everyday, and do my job (very well also). Instead of the union protecting me from the harassment, the union is busy having a meeting with manage to try and figure out how they can get the job back for a member that in the last 5 years has only worked 30 days.

GM and the UAW have broght them on themselves.
Not to mention the $2 billion down the drain to Fiat, or the $800 million down the drain in the Fuji Heavy debacle. (GM sold it's 20% stake in Subaru/FHI for $800 million less than it paid for it, and that loss doesn't count however much GM lost with the 9-2X disaster, or the crossover SUV they planned with Subaru and scrapped).
 

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Fformula88 said:
I think everyone should say thanks to the GM corporate beaurocracy who over the last couple decades has allowed the competitors to slowly develop and build higher quality vehicles, while they instead tried to maximize short term profits without looking at long term goals and consequences. GM corporate tried to maximize their short term profit with no regard to long term consequences. As a result, they fell behind (in some areas far behind) in platform design, plant utilization, body design, interior design, and powertrain design.

They have been slow to react to industry changes (such as flexible plants that can make more than one vehicle), and have designed vehicles tailored to existing tooling despite the design consequences. For instance, the Chevy Malibu is sort of boxing looking not because GM really wanted to square it off like that, but because they wanted it to fit through the existing tooling at the plant where they make it, and the Epsilon platform was pushing the size envelope for that plant, so they simply squared off the edges to try and maximize interior room and get the car down the assembly line. Yeah, that makes it cheaper in upfront tooling costs, but it also hurts Chevy by giving them a car with styling that may not be seen as "favorable" by potential buyers, and drive them elsewhere. As far as plant utilization, other companies have been retooling plants that can make cars built on multiple platforms. That allows them to make niche vehicles cheaper, but it also allows them to utilize their workforce more efficiently. If one car tanks, they just make another car there. GM on the other hand, is stuck making specific cars at specific plants. So if the car doesn't sell well, they have to lay off workers, or make the cars anyway and sell them at big discounts for a loss just to keep the workforce working (sound familiar, it should). Since laid off workers get nearly all their pay anyway, it is cheaper for GM to sell the cars for a loss, than to just let workers go idle.

That is just the tip of the iceburg too. GM has been rated as having the worst relationship with suppliers too, which can lead to inferior parts. They are also constantly demanding cheaper parts to cut their own costs, which has led to many of their quality problems over the years as parts suppliers just make "cheaper" parts to meet the demand.

There are other aspects. Political aspects have helped the foreign nameplates for instance. But in a way, GM (and Ford and Chrysler) have been their own worst enemies. Toyota, Nissan, Honda, they just stepped into a void that the big 3 created on their own.

The shame of it all is that American is losing it's last good paying manufacturing jobs. Of course, the UAW (ie labor) cannot be seen as a total victim in this either, since they are involved in the collective bargaining with GM that made those jobs as lucrative as they are and have been reluctant to do scaled rollbacks of some of those perks and pay to try and keep those jobs in place. In a way, the UAW has consistently bargained to keep the high wages in exchange for layoffs and plant closures. So this method of cost cutting is sort of business as usual for labor too.
Very interesting read, thanks!

I wonderhow it plays into this:
I've noticed in the last 2 years American Cars are drawing my interest, they are:
Chrysler 300, Charger, Mustang, Sosltice, etc....
 

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Fformula88 said:
Not to mention the $2 billion down the drain to Fiat, or the $800 million down the drain in the Fuji Heavy debacle. (GM sold it's 20% stake in Subaru/FHI for $800 million less than it paid for it, and that loss doesn't count however much GM lost with the 9-2X disaster, or the crossover SUV they planned with Subaru and scrapped).

That was a complete and total train wreck. I am certain that none could say that was a wise venture.
 

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I think this is great news. GM has too much capacity right now. Newer auto plants can build several models at the same time, thus eliminating the need for multiple plants to build each car. Spending money on idle plants and idle people is a waste of capital. This move should help the stock and the bottom line. Maybe I should buy some stock while it's cheap. ;)
 

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RODEO said:
Very interesting read, thanks!

I wonderhow it plays into this:
I've noticed in the last 2 years American Cars are drawing my interest, they are:
Chrysler 300, Charger, Mustang, Sosltice, etc....
All are distinctively styled and have generally been well received. But styling is sometimes a double edged sword. It can bite you when it is not accepted, and to really be successful you need to be first with the new styling trend. So there is a high level of risk to it.
 

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stang said:
I think this is great news. GM has too much capacity right now. Newer auto plants can build several models at the same time, thus eliminating the need for multiple plants to build each car. Spending money on idle plants and idle people is a waste of capital. This move should help the stock and the bottom line. Maybe I should buy some stock while it's cheap. ;)
It all depends on the details. Don't forget, GM has been shutting plants, modernizing, laying off excess workforce, etc for 20+ years now, and things are as bad as they have ever been for them. With the stock low, it could be a good time to pick some up, but history shows that these tactics are no guarantee of success. Their remaining workforce will still cost more than their competitions, they are still going to pay the lions share of health costs, they will still be paying for a good number of those layed off employees (whether it is layoff wages, legacy costs, they go to the job bank, etc), and they still have a linup of products the public doesn't seem to want without massive discounts, and their closest replacement product is large trucks which buyers are starting to abandon. In the long run, GM may turn it around, but you would need to be prepared to hold onto that stock for a while.
 
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