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Kinda on topic with GM selling badly. I wonder if we could possibly get Solsti for under MSRP since making a sale is more important then making a sale at MSRP. GM's so think in the rebates too on all their other cars. A sale is a sale, even if they don't make an extra $1000 on it.
 

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brentil said:
Kinda on topic with GM selling badly. I wonder if we could possibly get Solsti for under MSRP since making a sale is more important then making a sale at MSRP. GM's so think in the rebates too on all their other cars. A sale is a sale, even if they don't make an extra $1000 on it.
Low volume production (niche) = better match to demand = closer to MSRP
 

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Of note are the brief mention of the fact that GM (and all US Manufactures) have to pay Billions in health and welfare and pensions to past and present employees. This is an expense that Japanese companies don't have to pay one cent for. So GM can never be as profitable as Toyota no matter what they do unless they start making all their cars in China or something. Even then they will have to pay benifits to North American management, marketing, product developement, etc.

Anyhow, it's still no excuse for building half ass cars. G6, Cobalt, LaCross are all examples IMO of half ass attempts to compete with the Japanese. They can make all the excuses they want, but GM fails because of it's product. Lutz says there is better stuff coming, just wait, but to me that sounds pretty lame. Nobody's going to wait for the really great GM cars of the future, the time is now. I haven't seen anything on the GM drawing boards other than the Solstice and Sky that any big deal at all. In fact I thought many of the concepts they showed this year were pretty lame. I still don't understand why it is so hard to make good looking cars. Really, why??

There are people all over the internet coming up with better designs than they do. So if they can't get their people to do it, bring in some enthusiasts from the real world! The 300c, people love it!! The Mustang, people love it!!! The Solstice, people love it!!! No Freakin Brainer!!! But they still think the Cobalt, Lacross and G6 are good enough. Each one of those could have been a smash hit, but instead people are going WTF! I wish someone would explain it to me.
 

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Fformula88 said:
Now over there is over here! :willy: Or would that be over here is over there? :leaving:
Time and space has warped, and they have become the über thread!!! :D
 

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AeroDave said:
Of note are the brief mention of the fact that GM (and all US Manufactures) have to pay Billions in health and welfare and pensions to past and present employees. This is an expense that Japanese companies don't have to pay one cent for. So GM can never be as profitable as Toyota no matter what they do unless they start making all their cars in China or something. Even then they will have to pay benifits to North American management, marketing, product developement, etc.

Anyhow, it's still no excuse for building half ass cars. G6, Cobalt, LaCross are all examples IMO of half ass attempts to compete with the Japanese. They can make all the excuses they want, but GM fails because of it's product. Lutz says there is better stuff coming, just wait, but to me that sounds pretty lame. Nobody's going to wait for the really great GM cars of the future, the time is now. I haven't seen anything on the GM drawing boards other than the Solstice and Sky that any big deal at all. In fact I thought many of the concepts they showed this year were pretty lame. I still don't understand why it is so hard to make good looking cars. Really, why??

There are people all over the internet coming up with better designs than they do. So if they can't get their people to do it, bring in some enthusiasts from the real world! The 300c, people love it!! The Mustang, people love it!!! The Solstice, people love it!!! No Freakin Brainer!!! But they still think the Cobalt, Lacross and G6 are good enough. Each one of those could have been a smash hit, but instead people are going WTF! I wish someone would explain it to me.
:agree: No arguments from me. I agree with everything. Even with the new Lutz mentality, the latest GM cars do not look like the design teams were really allowed to go out and get creative. The G6 is not a bad car. Its clean and inconspicuous. However, the core buyers for the car coming from Grand Am's were buying those cars because they didn't look like every other sedan on the road. In GM's quest to build a more popular car with the G6, they might be turning off some of their core buyers. LaCrosse has what starts as an interesting front end. There is a little Lexus GS in the light treatment. However, the rest of the car is still Buick boring, and I think it waters down the effect started at the front. Again, its a design meant not to offend. Century and Regal buyers will like it. I just wonder if they are still alive to buy another car.

The article speaks about the need for GM to get their new trucks out quickly, and that GM is trying to accelerate those programs where they can. Could this be another disaster on the horizon? With gas prices expected to hit $2.25-$2.30 within a few weeks, and many people predicting a summer peak of $2.50-$2.75, the trend to buy big trucks and SUV's might be just about over! Even if those prices are not that high in the grand scope of things, the quick rise of prices will shock the public, and they certainly won't buy a gas guzzler after being shocked by gas prices!

Throwing a ton of money into getting new trucks to market just as the truck boom is about to end might end up being another money loser for GM.

The time is right now for GM to offer world class cars that get good gas mileage. To catch those people looking to trade out of their gas sucker SUV's and big trucks. The time is also now for hybrid cars and trucks in GM's lineup for the same reason.

Unfortunately, the next chance GM has at a world class mass market car (I am excluding any Kappa based cars in this) is the Zeta platform which we won't see until 2007-2008. Hybrid cars from GM won't arrive sooner than 2008.

They are in real trouble. I still believe that lutz is turning the ship around, but the Titanic doesn't turn that quickly, and GM may have already hit the iceburg.
 

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Fformula88 said:
They are in real trouble. I still believe that lutz is turning the ship around, but the Titanic doesn't turn that quickly, and GM may have already hit the iceburg.
Just as long as GM makes me a Solstice GXP if the Titanic goes down, and I get a couple years of service out of them I'd be happy. :D
Really though, I think it would be a major loss to the industry if GM went down. People rag on them all the time, but they still greatly contribute to the industry.
 
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