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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)

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Sorry, late to the party. There' have been a number of threads on this already
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hey...took a shot....
 

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Haven't studied closely but on first blush I see a bit of Solstice Couple on the back end.
 

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Actually, I'm not sure why GM would even bother. They build the Corvette, which should be enough unique two seat vehicles.

These days sports cars are introduced when first entering (or re-entering) a market. My Alfa Romeo 4C is an example of that. Next Alfa will be delivering sports sedans. GM is hardly re-entering. Their most profitable cars are mid-size and pickups. Two seater American made coupes should be way down the list. Why do you think Toyota and Honda got out of the sports car biz?
 

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The only thing wrong with the Corvette is the price. The Kappa was affordable.
I agree with this a lot. I'm still sort of surprised though, that it's base is so hardcore. People LOVE their Kappas. Says a lot about what the vehicle's life cycle should've been. 2016 Kappas? Can you imagine how great?
 

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Which will/has sold more; Chevy Cruze, or Solstice-Sky? Which has sold more and been more profitable for GM; Corvette or Chevy Malibu?

The math is simple.
 

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when im buying a car,im buying it for styling/performance/affordability.whether the manufacturer is breaking even or running to the bank with excess profits doesnt concern me.much as id love a new vette i dont want to feed a v8 and the insurance is probably more than i would like to pay.
 

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Why do you think Toyota and Honda got out of the sports car biz?
Honda just released the NSX
Toyota has been making the FRS for a couple years now...
 

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Honda just released the NSX
Toyota has been making the FRS for a couple years now...
Try to keep up..

The NSX is branded with the Acura badge and costs in six-figures. Acura is the high end division of Honda, like Lexus is to Toyota. The high end brand to GM is Cadillac.

The FRS is sold by Scion, a low-end brand of Toyota in partnership with Subaru. The FRS is hardly a sports car, no more than a CIVIC is.
 

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The future of FRS is in doubt as well since Toyota has since signed a partnership with BMW for a sports car (I think this is where the new Supra will come from) and there are alot of people saying this puts the future of the FRS/BRZ in doubt, especially as sales have dropped dramatically since debut.

On top of it all, if you believe some websites - Subaru is limited by contract with Toyota from selling more of the BRZs as well, so as to not outshine the FRS.
 

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The FRS is hardly a sports car, no more than a CIVIC is.
So by that logic, a Solstice NA is no more a sports car than a Cobalt is.....

What, pray, does the FRS/BRZ lack? It has reasonably good looks, quite decent suspension and more power than the NA Solstice. And they are talking about adding a convertible version.
 

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Apparently interest, sales, and a future...
None of which speak to the issue of whether or not it is a sports car - which is the question I asked you to clarify. You are the one that said it was no more a sports car than a Civic. We await the basis of that statement.
 

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:lurk::lurk::lurk:


Without getting in the middle of that whizzing match, I must say one thing. If the Asian automakers ever figured out that if they just gave most of their cars a 20-30% HP bump, the US automakers would be in a world of hurt. That's the only reason I won't look at cars like the BRZ/FRS or the Miata...they're underpowered! By 75+HP for my taste. If Mazda gave the Miata a 280HP option, I would SERIOUSLY consider one. I worked extensively with a Toyota dealer here in Detroit and got to know one of the techs very well. He bought an FRS so he could tune it and make it fast. He wound up putting a turbo on it and tuned it to around 285HP because he couldn't stand the lack of HP. He already had a tuned A4 that was pushing nearly 400HP. I'm already looking ahead to what I'm going to do once my lease is up on my Challenger....
 

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No whizzing, just trying to get an answer that addresses what I asked (a novel approach, I suppose).

I have always wondered why Mazzda didn't do a 250 bhp version for the Miata given that they did have a turbo Mazdaspeed 3. Although it would have taken a bit of redesign (the turbo on the sidewinder would be right in the middle of the Miarta firewall).
 

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No whizzing, just trying to get an answer that addresses what I asked (a novel approach, I suppose).
Settle down my friend North of the Border. I've been busy at work and not been on the site.

So the question is; why isn't a Scion FRS a sports car? For one thing, it's a Scion, the economy brand for Toyota. It's an economy sports sedan, maybe. Is a Kia Veloster a sports car? Again, no.

Here's my thinking: GM's Solstice and Saturn Sky was built as a two seat "sports" alternative to the more expensive Corvette. Was it successful? I argue if it had been from a business perspective, they would have transformed it to another brand. It was a novelty model, plain and simple. Are Sol's and Sky's sports cars? Yes, that's what they were designed to be. Is the Mazda MX5 a sports car? Yes, in spite of the power downgrade over prior models, that's what it was designed to be.

To take my opinion further: Is my Alfa Romeo 4C considered a sports car? You bet. It's almost considered a 'super car' by today's standards. Is my TR6 a sports car? Yep, it was designed to be a sports car to compete in that market. Is a Honda Civic a sports car? No, it's an economy sedan, now with a turbocharger.

How about a BMW M3? No, it's a sports sedan.
 

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It's an interesting question if only because the lines between sports cars and sedans (or something in between - I doubt anyone would call a Honda Del Sol - if anyone remembers them - a sports car) are blurry.

Having a roof that comes off isn't enough to make a car a sports car and having a fixed roof isn't going to automatically classify it as a non-sports car.

Being an economy model is irrelevant - the Bugeye Sprite was for many the quintessential sports car, lacking such normally standard features like side windows, and a trunk, and notwithstanding that it had been developed from modest sedan origins (Austin A35 and Morris Minor 1000 bits)

Scion was an odd project for Toyota and it includes some astoundingly ugly SUV wannabes and the FRS as a may be sports car.

I'm not going to tell you that I know that they are sports cars. I am darn sure that the Toyota 2000 GT was a sports car. I am pretty sure that the MR2 was as well.

I will say that IMHO the Supra is not a sports car although they are a very well done sports sedan similar to the BMW M3 etc.

So I'm not saying I know better, just that your dismissal of them by likening them to a Civic seemed flippant and you'd offered no reasoning behind it. I'd be interested in hearing you make a case either way as you obviously have good grounding in terms of car ownership.
 
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