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Discussion Starter #1
I know some folks have driven them. The dealer that posted his driving review was a let down...a few words about go-kart handling and then paragraphs about how it looks does not make a good driving review in my opinion.

What I want to know is this:

- has anyone thrashed one of these cars yet?
- how well does the car balance?
- how well does the car oversteer?
- how easily can one control oversteer via throttle inputs?
- are there understeer tendencies at high speed turns prior to oversteer?
- does the back end snap out or is it gentle?
- does the back end line up again when you get of the gas after hanging it out?
- does the front end plow on hard breaking?
- what is the gas pedal / clutch pedal placement like -- i.e., ease of heel toe?
- how much throw on the shifter?
- how much play on the shifter?

Has Pontiac allowed anyone to really DRIVE this car yet or has it been mostly patsy drives?

Naturally, the majority of the cars' buyers don't care about this stuff. But people like you and me (and anyone on this forum, really) do care because that's why we buy these cars...to thrash on twisty roads and extract every last bit of driving goodness out of.

When I finally get to take one out on a test drive I'm not going to be gentle with it. Before I bought the MSM, I flat out told the salespeople I expected to be able to drive the cars I was test driving or not to waste my time. I suspect a lot of folks on here feel the same as me about this.

The one saleskid thought when I meant "drive the car" I meant go fast because he just kept yapping about the stupid turbo. I don't think he ever rode in a car with the back end loose because after I slid around a turn (and it was a perfect oversteer ;) ) the first time, he stopped talking until we got back to the lot. [sigh] Too many people think hard driving is going fast in straight lines.

Anyway, I digress.

So, has anyone divuled this info yet? Please say yes cause I want to read it!
 

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Matt123 said:
I know some folks have driven them. The dealer that posted his driving review was a let down...a few words about go-kart handling and then paragraphs about how it looks does not make a good driving review in my opinion.

What I want to know is this:

- has anyone thrashed one of these cars yet?
- how well does the car balance?
- how well does the car oversteer?
- how easily can one control oversteer via throttle inputs?
- are there understeer tendencies at high speed turns prior to oversteer?
- does the back end snap out or is it gentle?
- does the back end line up again when you get of the gas after hanging it out?
- does the front end plow on hard breaking?
- what is the gas pedal / clutch pedal placement like -- i.e., ease of heel toe?
- how much throw on the shifter?
- how much play on the shifter?

Has Pontiac allowed anyone to really DRIVE this car yet or has it been mostly patsy drives?

Naturally, the majority of the cars' buyers don't care about this stuff. But people like you and me (and anyone on this forum, really) do care because that's why we buy these cars...to thrash on twisty roads and extract every last bit of driving goodness out of.

When I finally get to take one out on a test drive I'm not going to be gentle with it. Before I bought the MSM, I flat out told the salespeople I expected to be able to drive the cars I was test driving or not to waste my time. I suspect a lot of folks on here feel the same as me about this.

The one saleskid thought when I meant "drive the car" I meant go fast because he just kept yapping about the stupid turbo. I don't think he ever rode in a car with the back end loose because after I slid around a turn (and it was a perfect oversteer ;) ) the first time, he stopped talking until we got back to the lot. [sigh] Too many people think hard driving is going fast in straight lines.

Anyway, I digress.

So, has anyone divuled this info yet? Please say yes cause I want to read it!
The short answer is "yes". Being able to answer such questions, though, must be done delicately. ;)
 

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Matt123 said:
I know some folks have driven them. The dealer that posted his driving review was a let down...a few words about go-kart handling and then paragraphs about how it looks does not make a good driving review in my opinion.
I take it that this a cheap shot at my review. Too bad you'll never get to actually do one for yourself for quite some time...

Matt123 said:
What I want to know is this:

- has anyone thrashed one of these cars yet?
- how well does the car balance?
- how well does the car oversteer?
- how easily can one control oversteer via throttle inputs?
- are there understeer tendencies at high speed turns prior to oversteer?
- does the back end snap out or is it gentle?
- does the back end line up again when you get of the gas after hanging it out?
- does the front end plow on hard breaking?
- what is the gas pedal / clutch pedal placement like -- i.e., ease of heel toe?
- how much throw on the shifter?
- how much play on the shifter?

Has Pontiac allowed anyone to really DRIVE this car yet or has it been mostly patsy drives?
We literally beat the piss out of them, but not on a track. We (only me?) took advantage of what we could on the streets and backroads.

Matt123 said:
Naturally, the majority of the cars' buyers don't care about this stuff. But people like you and me (and anyone on this forum, really) do care because that's why we buy these cars...to thrash on twisty roads and extract every last bit of driving goodness out of.
I disagree. These are fun cruisers that have a sporting nature. If you're looking for a racecar, you're looking at the wrong car, not to mention that your Mazda ain't either...sorry....

Matt123 said:
When I finally get to take one out on a test drive I'm not going to be gentle with it. Before I bought the MSM, I flat out told the salespeople I expected to be able to drive the cars I was test driving or not to waste my time. I suspect a lot of folks on here feel the same as me about this.
Congratulations! You're the exact reason why most dealers won't even let people sit in one, let alone drive one, without a signed purchase contract and money down. You don't beat on a car you may not buy, someone else may wind up with it other than yourself. Grow up.
Matt123 said:
The one saleskid thought when I meant "drive the car" I meant go fast because he just kept yapping about the stupid turbo. I don't think he ever rode in a car with the back end loose because after I slid around a turn (and it was a perfect oversteer ;) ) the first time, he stopped talking until we got back to the lot. [sigh] Too many people think hard driving is going fast in straight lines.

Anyway, I digress.
Again, same as the above, grow up. If you want to be "race driver", do on your own time with your own car.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The dealer that posted his driving review was a let down...a few words about go-kart handling and then paragraphs about how it looks does not make a good driving review in my opinion.

We literally beat the piss out of them, but not on a track. We (only me?) took advantage of what we could on the streets and backroads.

I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, that you seemed to get hostile over somebody not hanging on your every word is a mystery to me. I'd think as a car salesman you'd have a thicker skin.

And if you DID beat the piss out of it, how about some DETAILS? That's all anyone here is looking for.

If you're looking for a racecar, you're looking at the wrong car, not to mention that your Mazda ain't either...sorry....

I never said I was looking for a race car. And anyone on here that has read my posts know I've never made one negative comment about Pontiac and the Solstice. So your veiled attempt at trying to tell me what my "Mazda" is or isn't is really rather juvenile. We're talking about sports cars. And sports cars were meant to be driven. Go look up sports car and race car if you're not clear on the difference.

Congratulations! You're the exact reason why most dealers won't even let people sit in one, let alone drive one, without a signed purchase contract and money down. You don't beat on a car you may not buy, someone else may wind up with it other than yourself. Grow up.

Funny, two of the three dealers I visited told me that they understood, that's what the car was made for.

There's a difference between BEATING a car and DRIVING a car HARD. Maybe you don't understand that. BEATING a car is dumping the clutch, slamming the brakes, etc...i.e, abuse. Driving a car hard through corners is not BEATING a car. And if a sports car can't stand up to hard cornering, it's not much of a car now is it?

Again, same as the above, grow up. If you want to be "race driver", do on your own time with your own car.

Funny, when I test drove the Z the salesman that went with me took me to an empty lot to put the car through its paces to show me what it could do. Same with the Toyota guy on the MR2.

So save the childish comments just because I didn't blush like a school girl over your review which failed to touch on the aspects of the car's handling characteristics despite the claims that you "literally beat the piss" out of a car that WASN'T YOURS.
 

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Bottomline Question

would you buy the car brand new that you tested..from a dealer that allowed potential customers to drive that car hard, or test out the "sport car features" of a new automobile on a new engine not being probably broken in.....any owners manual states hard acceleration, braking etc for the first several hundred or so miles should be avoided.....I would also include hard cornering or other road course like actions in this category

if a dealership/salesman allows that......I bet his insurance underwriting doesnt cover it in the event something happens to the car.....nor does his management

small car dealer....would like to see your comments on this one
 

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Simmer down guys, don't start getting personal.

I'll bet the magazines beat on the cars during their testing. Hopefully we should have results of those soon.

I'm happy to read all reviews at this point. Thanks 1990 TGP
 

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Matt123 said:
I'm sorry you don't like my opinion, that you seemed to get hostile over somebody not hanging on your every word is a mystery to me. I'd think as a car salesman you'd have a thicker skin.
Hanging? Nah, never said anything like that. You should take some reading classes, you seem to have a problem comprehending script.

Matt123 said:
And if you DID beat the piss out of it, how about some DETAILS? That's all anyone here is looking for.
Read my review. If you don't like it, wait until you buy one.

Matt123 said:
I never said I was looking for a race car. And anyone on here that has read my posts know I've never made one negative comment about Pontiac and the Solstice. So your veiled attempt at trying to tell me what my "Mazda" is or isn't is really rather juvenile. We're talking about sports cars. And sports cars were meant to be driven. Go look up sports car and race car if you're not clear on the difference.
All of what you said about sports cars is good and true. Doing what you claim with a vehicle that is not yours that someone else may buy, not good. See the difference?

Matt123 said:
Funny, two of the three dealers I visited told me that they understood, that's what the car was made for.
As any dealer with common sense should, we're not debating that. You just shouldn't treat a vehicle like that when it is not your own and may wind up being someone elses.

Matt123 said:
There's a difference between BEATING a car and DRIVING a car HARD. Maybe you don't understand that. BEATING a car is dumping the clutch, slamming the brakes, etc...i.e, abuse. Driving a car hard through corners is not BEATING a car. And if a sports car can't stand up to hard cornering, it's not much of a car now is it?
These are new cars. Full throttle and spinning tires (to do the powerslide you mentioned) is beating a new car. Period. Call it what you want, but break-in procedures deem this as beating.

Matt123 said:
Funny, when I test drove the Z the salesman that went with me took me to an empty lot to put the car through its paces to show me what it could do. Same with the Toyota guy on the MR2.
That's nice that they let you hammer on new vehicles (were they new? doesn't matter really). Just imagine if the ultimate buyer found out his car was in a parking lot being "put through its paces". My god, that salesperson should be fired on the spot.

Matt123 said:
So save the childish comments just because I didn't blush like a school girl over your review which failed to touch on the aspects of the car's handling characteristics despite the claims that you "literally beat the piss" out of a car that WASN'T YOURS.
I guess you just can't take a hint. Pontiac wants these cars to be tested by us. Beat 'em within reason. Better we find where the weaknesses are rather than the customer. Plus, these cars will never be for sale, thank you very much.
 

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solsticeman said:
The short answer is "yes". Being able to answer such questions, though, must be done delicately. ;)
Did said thrashing happen to coincide with any aforementioned tickets? :lol:
 

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mceb said:
Simmer down guys, don't start getting personal.

I'll bet the magazines beat on the cars during their testing. Hopefully we should have results of those soon.

I'm happy to read all reviews at this point. Thanks 1990 TGP
If you read the 50th anniversary issue of C&D you will read about the nightmares the pr people had trying to explain why the cars were being returned in pieces, or why the Federalis de Mexico were involved. :lol:
 

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WHAT THE F*&$%)*^%$ IS THE DEAL HERE?!?!?


1990 TGP - Matt was asking a legitimate question (and questions), why is the tone in so many people's posts getting so darn confrontational? :brentil:

Please, keep the confrontational and disrespectful tone down in this thread, or one of us mods will close the discussion.

Matt was not taking a cheap shot at your review. I understand that, I wish you did too.

Heel-toe pedal placement is best assessed on a race course - the only way you can get a great feel for it is to assess it at high braking levels and downshifting in a corner-entry situation - something that can't really be done on public roads.

Cornering predictability and limit handling, likewise, can't be throughly assessed through a careful drive on public roads. These are situations where the tires sing to you. Also, it is best assessed by someone who currently or in the past used to race or run time trials on closed race courses. Namely, someone who can hear what the car is telling you and translate it into what Matt123 is asking.

Your review was just fine, 1990 TGP, but Matt123 was asking for something done more thoroughly, preferably on a closed road course, like the auto-mags have been doing at Buttonwillow, and Thunder Hill and Grattan, and Mid-Ohio, and a handful of other tracks. There was no need to escalate the discussion by taking the post as a personal attack.

A more thorough answer to you, Matt123, is that as far as I know, only people sanctioned by or working at GM have driven the Solstice in situations to produce the assement you are asking for. Take another look at the few comments made by the automagazines for last year's trip to Goodwood Speedway in England. It was only mule-level, but you can tell quite a bit about the capability of a platform from that type of assessment.

The Solstice has only been driven by a handful of people, mostly on the Milford Road Course.

Can we all just tone back a bit?
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
This was your Driving Review, I've highlighted the parts that pertain to handling characteristics of the car:

Now, the Solstice.

After all the reading and studying I’ve done on the Solstice, I could hardly wait to get myself behind the wheel of Pontiac’s “Sexy, Gorgeous two seat roadster”. Seeing the line up of fifteen or so Solstices, in all colors, immediately made my mouth water. I could barely sleep waiting for the road trip with the hot new roadster.

Being that this is no warmed over anything, I was curious as to how this car would ride and handle, in addition to its acceleration, of course. First, I’ll go on record of saying how tight these cars felt for being pre-production cars. Going down the road, the Solstice felt tight and surefooted and kept a straight line down the road. It’s handling was go-cart like in its ability to zig and zag around tight corners. Very fun indeed! Speaking of corners, it cornered flat as Nevada. Body roll wasn’t a problem in the Solstice, as it shouldn’t be.

For power, the 2.4 VVT Ecotec proves to be a quick motor in the Solstice so long as you keep it in its power band, which is quite higher up on the scale than my LS1 T/A (duh!) to which I couldn’t help but compare to. Clutch take up in our preproduction cars was a bit higher up than I like, acting much as the new 2005 C6 does. Its smoothness, like all manual transmissions, depends on how smooth you are, but wasn’t as even as the take up on my 2002 T/A. The shifter is snick-snick quick, and gear changes and smooth and sure.

When you start rolling along, its acceleration is adequate, but not neck snapping. I had to remind myself that this is a sporting car, and not a drag racer. A turboed Ecotec motor would do wonders for the Solstice. Again though, if you keep it in the higher RPM’s, you’ll have a blast, and the exhaust note’s not too bad either, kind of like an ornery hornet.


That's not much in the way of handling characteristics for somebody that starts a thread about their Solstice test drive. So I stand by my notion that this post did little to shed light on the car's performance.

I'm truly sorry that you find this comment to be...what did you call it? Oh, a Cheap Shot.

But you later tell us that you "beat the piss out of the car" in defense of your review and my critique of it. But then won't tell anyone about what you found.

And if you cannot respond to me without becoming passive aggressive, don't bother responding at all.

And on a side note, the break in procedures of a new Mazda...oh, wait...there ARE NO break in procedures in the Mazda manual other than to avoid hard braking. Which I did not do. And what kind of power sliding do you do such that your rear wheels are spinning? I've never spun mine on a power slide...please explain.
 

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there ARE NO break in procedures in the Mazda manual
If that's true,then it's a very poorly written manual. Any new engine needs a break-in period, regardless of manufacturer. That has always been true, and always will be true. I'm actually glad I ordered this car instead of being able to drive it off the lot. I don't want a new car that has been abused by other people. If there's going to be any abusing, I want to be the one to do it! ;)
 

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It's pretty easy, editguy. A demo model is NEVER sold as a new one. Unless you don't have a brain and have no curiosity as to why your "new" car odometer reads 1,764.3 miles, and the driver information center shows an average mileage of 12.6 Miles Per Gallon :lol:
 

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Okay, ya got me. ;) So, I'll never buy a demo. But it doesn't change the fact that new cars should have a proper break-in period.
 

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Matt123 said:
And on a side note, the break in procedures of a new Mazda...oh, wait...there ARE NO break in procedures in the Mazda manual other than to avoid hard braking.

Well, technically correct, but...

From a 2002 Miata Owner's Manual

No special break-in is necessary, but a few
precautions in the first 1,000 km (600
miles) may add to the performance,
economy, and life of your Mazda.
• Don’t race the engine.
• Don’t maintain one constant speed for
long.
• Don’t drive constantly at full-throttle or
high engine rpm for extended periods
of time.
• Avoid unnecessary hard stops.
• Avoid full-throttle starts.

But it's very hard to do.... :D
 
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