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You can simply fill the engine with water instead of coolant. you do not need to start the car at all. If you follow the overflow line off the bottle it is going to come to a tee near the brake booster/master cylinder. follow the lines as if to go straight through the tee. this will bring you to the engine. Keep following it to where the clamp is. It will be next to where the upper radiator hose attaches to the engine. disconnect the overflow line there.

If you unbolt the overflow bottle you will be able to raise it some without having to disconnect any lines from it. You may have to unplug the coolant level sensor and you can do that it will not hurt anything. fill the overflow with water and raise the bottle up when it is empty put more water and raise it again. Keep on doing this until you see water come out of the fitting you took the overflow line off of. in the event the water level does not drop in the bottle and no water is coming out of that nipple then lower the bottle back down. Use a bolt to plug the end of the disconnected overflow line. do the same for the black hose coming off the top of the overflow bottle where the cap goes on. Take a clean face towel or some paper towel and wrap it around the neck the cap goes onto on the overflow. Now pucker up. LOL. blow into the bottle. you can use either compressed air (no more then 5PSI) or you can use your breath.

That will get water into the entire water jacket of the engine so you can do the compressed air check to see if you can hear a water boiling sound.
 

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That is how I fill the coolant system with coolant. You can do the same. Reconnect the disconnected overflow line and remove the bolt from the other line. When running the car for the first time after putting coolant in it leave the overflow cap so it is threaded onto only a single thread. You want it to be loose. Put a towel over the top of it and place a drain pan behind the drivers front tire. Start the car and idle it until the temperature comes it. It is going to go higher then 195. when it gets to 205 you want to grab the upper radiator hose (wearing a glove) and squeeze it. The objective to this is to get the coolant and air to to move quick enough to push out an air bubble. DO NOT EVER let the coolant overflow bottle go empty. When air comes out it is going to errupt out and it will push quit a bit of coolant with it. If you use a clean drain pan you can put the coolant right back in. don't dump all of it back in leave some in the pan because any dirt that may get into the coolant on it's way to the pan is going to sink to the bottom. so leave that in the bottom of the pan.

If the temps get to 225ish turn the engine off and fill the overflow to the very top. then wait for the engine to cool some monitoring the overflow bottle so it doesn't go empty at all. The hot expanded trapped air when it cools is going to shrink and it will suck the coolant from the overflow bottle into the system. once the coolant level in the bottle is no longer dropping real fast make sure the overflow bottle has the cap screwed o by only one thread and a towel over it. start the car. When the radiator fan turns on give the accelerator a good tap. get the RPM's to like 4 grand and then back down. You may want to do that a couple of times. The sharp increases in coolant pressure and flow will help move any air bubbles along. Then back to pumping the upper radiator hose and making sure the overflow stays 1/2 way full.

DO NOT panic and screw the cap on if you see the overflow bottle full an overflowing. This is normal and happens because the trapped air inside the system is expanding as it heats up. expansion of the trapped air is good and it will help move it along in the system. the trick is to not let any air in once the trapped air comes out. so VERY IMPORTANT to never let the coolant overflow bottle go empty.

I have not had it take more then a hour to get the air out using this method and without having to drill a hole in the thermostat.

NOTE: be careful not to loose a finger from the radiator fan when grabbing the upper radiator hose.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I finally got everything deep cleaned assembled / glued and missing parts replaced.
That is how I fill the coolant system with coolant. You can do the same. Reconnect the disconnected overflow line and remove the bolt from the other line. When running the car for the first time after putting coolant in it leave the overflow cap so it is threaded onto only a single thread. You want it to be loose. Put a towel over the top of it and place a drain pan behind the drivers front tire. Start the car and idle it until the temperature comes it. It is going to go higher then 195. when it gets to 205 you want to grab the upper radiator hose (wearing a glove) and squeeze it. The objective to this is to get the coolant and air to to move quick enough to push out an air bubble. DO NOT EVER let the coolant overflow bottle go empty. When air comes out it is going to errupt out and it will push quit a bit of coolant with it. If you use a clean drain pan you can put the coolant right back in. don't dump all of it back in leave some in the pan because any dirt that may get into the coolant on it's way to the pan is going to sink to the bottom. so leave that in the bottom of the pan.

If the temps get to 225ish turn the engine off and fill the overflow to the very top. then wait for the engine to cool some monitoring the overflow bottle so it doesn't go empty at all. The hot expanded trapped air when it cools is going to shrink and it will suck the coolant from the overflow bottle into the system. once the coolant level in the bottle is no longer dropping real fast make sure the overflow bottle has the cap screwed o by only one thread and a towel over it. start the car. When the radiator fan turns on give the accelerator a good tap. get the RPM's to like 4 grand and then back down. You may want to do that a couple of times. The sharp increases in coolant pressure and flow will help move any air bubbles along. Then back to pumping the upper radiator hose and making sure the overflow stays 1/2 way full.

DO NOT panic and screw the cap on if you see the overflow bottle full an overflowing. This is normal and happens because the trapped air inside the system is expanding as it heats up. expansion of the trapped air is good and it will help move it along in the system. the trick is to not let any air in once the trapped air comes out. so VERY IMPORTANT to never let the coolant overflow bottle go empty.

I have not had it take more then a hour to get the air out using this method and without having to drill a hole in the thermostat.

NOTE: be careful not to loose a finger from the radiator fan when grabbing the upper radiator hose.
So i finally had time to get the car back together (cleaned all the oil from inside the intercooler ex.. ) purged the cooling system using the DDM method and followed with this method. Took the car on a test drive down my local road 35-50 mph and the temp slowly spiked to 230 with the heat blasting on full. The air was hot but IIRC in the past the heater on full was almost scalding hot. It’s been a couple years since i had it out in the cold so my memory may be wrong???

Popped the hood back in my driveway and the fan was racing at full with cold air blowing. ( yea the fan works !!! ).

Question?? Since i had heat from the vents is this just air in the system or something else. air, bad radiator cap stuck closed or something else?

Thank you in advance!
 

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I finally got everything deep cleaned assembled / glued and missing parts replaced.


So i finally had time to get the car back together (cleaned all the oil from inside the intercooler ex.. ) purged the cooling system using the DDM method and followed with this method. Took the car on a test drive down my local road 35-50 mph and the temp slowly spiked to 230 with the heat blasting on full. The air was hot but IIRC in the past the heater on full was almost scalding hot. It’s been a couple years since i had it out in the cold so my memory may be wrong???

Popped the hood back in my driveway and the fan was racing at full with cold air blowing. ( yea the fan works !!! ).

Question?? Since i had heat from the vents is this just air in the system or something else. air, bad radiator cap stuck closed or something else?

Thank you in advance!
let me be sure I understand. The radiator fan was running full blast but the air being pulled through the radiator was cold? If so, it sounds like air trapped in the system. None of the accepted methods of purging the system are fool proof and may need to be repeated several times.
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
let me be sure I understand. The radiator fan was running full blast but the air being pulled through the radiator was cold?
correct: cold air from radiator fan. Hot air from internal vents inside car (i had heat turned on to make sure the fan was on).
 

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correct: cold air from radiator fan. Hot air from internal vents inside car (i had heat turned on to make sure the fan was on).
I think that either @joybill44 is correct and there is air in the system or, more likely in my opinion, the thermostat is stuck closed or partly closed.
 

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correct: cold air from radiator fan. Hot air from internal vents inside car (i had heat turned on to make sure the fan was on).
I think that either @joybill44 is correct and there is air in the system or, more likely in my opinion, the thermostat is stuck closed or partly closed.
 

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correct: cold air from radiator fan. Hot air from internal vents inside car (i had heat turned on to make sure the fan was on).
Still sounds like air in the coolant system. Could be a bad thermostat stuck shut but is more likely air in the system. If it does prove to be the thermostat, drill a small hole in the new one to let the trapped air through. (1/16" or 1/8").
 

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Still sounds like air in the coolant system. Could be a bad thermostat stuck shut but is more likely air in the system. If it does prove to be the thermostat, drill a small hole in the new one to let the trapped air through. (1/16" or 1/8").
If you have to open the system again, you may as well replace the thermostat just to be sure. They are relatively cheap, easy to replace, (except for that one hose clamp on top that is in the exact wrong position and must be rotated to get a socket on the thermostat housing). No need to loosen the large radiator hoses, just lift up the upper part of the housing, hoses and all, drop in the new tstat with hole drilled and gasket in place on the tstat, button it up and use either or both methods to refill the system. Even with all that, you may to burp the system several times.
 

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air bubble or stuck thermostat as the others have said.

The method I use to bleed the system is to disconnect the small line from the side of the bottle, plug the overflow line. fill up the bottle and blow some air into the bottle using the nipple from where the small hose was attached. Do this until you get a stream of coolant coming out of the disconnected hose. Do make sure the hose is not going to shoot coolant all over the ECM. And also put a pan under the car where the overflow bottle is. use a large pan like the ones used when they clear the tables off at a restaurant.

Once that is done reconnect the hose and unplug the over flow. make sure the coolant bottle is 1/2 full and put the cap on.

Only screw the cap on by one thread. You do not want it tight but you do not want it to pull off either. Start the car. while the car is warming up the coolant level in the bottle is going to rise and it will overflow. This is normal, the trapped air bubbles inside the system are warming up and as we know heat causes things to expand. air expands a lot with heat so a lot of coolant will get pushed out. The name of the game is to make sure the bottle never goes empty. Monitor your car temps while doing this. Once the car is above 195°F grab the upper radiator hose with a gloved hand. The hose is going to be hot and if it's not I will get hot. Be careful of anything that is moving and also the fan even if it is not on at the time. Squeeze the upper radiator hose. rapid compressions. By doing that you are surging the coolant in the system which is going to push any air that is trapped in the system. If the temps gets up to 230°F turn the car off and wait. The coolant level in the bottle is going to drop as it cools down make sure the bottle always has coolant in it. After 5-10 minutes full the bottle to the 1/2 way mark again and replace the cap. again only one thread tight. start the car and repeat the process until the temp doesn't go above 220°F.. Rev the engine a few times to see if you can get more air pushed out.


once you have the temps staying below 220° fill the bottle all the way up and cap it all the way. Take the car for a spirited drive around the block. Monitor the temps. 260°F is an overheat so if you see the temps get up to 240 or so it's OK. When it does that pull the car over and check the overflow bottle see where the coolant level is. If it is empty you still have a monster bubble in the system. DO NOT take the cap off the overflow bottle without putting a full sized bath towel over the top of it. If you do the air in the system that is being held from expanding is under 15PSI of pressure taking the cap off is going to allow that air to expand to 2 times the size any coolant between the overflow bottle and the air bubble is going to get pushed to the bottle where it will flash boil and become a geyser out of the top of the coolant bottle. you have to remember that your engine is at 240°F and coolant is going to boil at 223°F (212 + 11 coolant offset) a 17° difference and that 15psi of pressure is what is allowing that difference to happen. Once you remove the pressure there is nothing to stop the coolant from boiling and it will, that boiling creates air and steam which will push coolant out of the system.

If you open the cap with the engine hot always use an old bathroom towel folded in 1/2 over the bottle and slowly open the cap rocking the cap as you go. You want to blow the pressure off in a controlled manner and the towel will keep you from getting splash/steam burns. If done properly any coolant that is going to be pushed out will come out the overflow tube and not the cap.

If you have a large air bubble once you get home let the car cool down for 10 minutes then open the cap with the above procedure. fill the bottle all the way up and wait 10 minutes keeping the bottle full the whole time. Then start the process over from the beginning again.

The air will come out it's just a pain to get it out without having a way to pull a vacuum on the system.
 

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The easiest way for you to tell if you have air in the coolant system is when the car is hot and the engine is off to open the hood and listen. if you hear boiling then you have air trapped in the coolant system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #72 ·
After the fan turned off i did hear a very slight hissing sound by the front of the head. Very hard for me to identify the source as i live on one of those nice country roads that’s nice for a couple hundred motorcycle to cruise during a nice holiday weekend. After 15 minutes i gave up waiting for quite.

After it cooled (2 hours) started it back up and it sounded like it was running rough and pronounced valve tapping sound ( not the fuel pump ).

Prior to the test drive:
  • car started and purred as much as any gxp should. (1/4 teaspoon of oil in each cylinder as it had not run in 4+ months)
  • i changed the plungs and conducted a cylinder pressure test ( first time i ever did this, and i could have errored) and the pressure looked ok on all cylinders.
  • cylinder 2 had some signs of detonation (pictures above in this thread)

Next steps:
  • Pull the pugs and check for coolant (don’t want to vapor lock)
  • scope the cylinders again
  • purge the cooling system (per instructions)

Thank you all for the quick posts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
After the fan turned off i did hear a very slight hissing sound by the front of the head. Very hard for me to identify the source as i live on one of those nice country roads that’s nice for a couple hundred motorcycle to cruise during a nice holiday weekend. After 15 minutes i gave up waiting for quite.

After it cooled (2 hours) started it back up and it sounded like it was running rough and pronounced valve tapping sound ( not the fuel pump ).

Prior to the test drive:
  • car started and purred as much as any gxp should. (1/4 teaspoon of oil in each cylinder as it had not run in 4+ months)
  • i changed the plungs and conducted a cylinder pressure test ( first time i ever did this, and i could have errored) and the pressure looked ok on all cylinders.
  • cylinder 2 had some signs of detonation (pictures above in this thread)

Next steps:
  • Pull the pugs and check for coolant (don’t want to vapor lock)
  • scope the cylinders again
  • purge the cooling system (per instructions)

Thank you all for the quick posts.
Wandering if it’s easier to just pick up a thingy to do this. For $70 usd it sounds like it’s hard to pass on.
 

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if you heard a hissing sound that would be a leak in the system. but it shouldn't have been hissing it should have been spitting coolant out. you can disconnect the small line from the overflow tank and attach a compressor line to the nipple on the tank. Stick a bolt in the line to cap it, use a clamp as you don't want the bolt to become a projectile. Set your compressor regulator to 15psi and pressurize the system. Then look for any leaks and listen for the hissing.

If you do not hear the hissing then it wasn't coming from the coolant system. Could be the rubber seal on the brake booster as that is supposed to hold a vacuum after you turn the car off. Other then the coolant system and also the brake booster I can't think of anything that would make a hissing sound with the engine off. The thing to listen for is boiling water. That is the indicator of a trapped air bubble in the coolant system.
 

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The hissing could have been coming from the overflow line. It is normal for air/steam to come out of that line if the system is not 100% bled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
air bubble or stuck thermostat as the others have said.

The method I use to bleed the system is to disconnect the small line from the side of the bottle, plug the overflow line. fill up the bottle and blow some air into the bottle using the nipple from where the small hose was attached. Do this until you get a stream of coolant coming out of the disconnected hose. Do make sure the hose is not going to shoot coolant all over the ECM. And also put a pan under the car where the overflow bottle is. use a large pan like the ones used when they clear the tables off at a restaurant.

Once that is done reconnect the hose and unplug the over flow. make sure the coolant bottle is 1/2 full and put the cap on.

Only screw the cap on by one thread. You do not want it tight but you do not want it to pull off either. Start the car. while the car is warming up the coolant level in the bottle is going to rise and it will overflow. This is normal, the trapped air bubbles inside the system are warming up and as we know heat causes things to expand. air expands a lot with heat so a lot of coolant will get pushed out. The name of the game is to make sure the bottle never goes empty. Monitor your car temps while doing this. Once the car is above 195°F grab the upper radiator hose with a gloved hand. The hose is going to be hot and if it's not I will get hot. Be careful of anything that
Agree it’s air in the system. I could feel the coolant bubble / hiss when placing my hand on the larger diameter hose by the radiator and squeezing

So far i tried the air compressor method 3 times to push the air out and did get maybe 1/4 of a plastic soda bottle of air?? Also tried the method you suggested but didn’t have a large tray handy so I aborted once the overflow was at max capacity.

Will try to again once it cools down
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
The hissing could have been coming from the overflow line. It is normal for air/steam to come out of that line if the system is not 100% bled.
kgschlosser:

Thank you for the suggestion

I used both methods to purge the cooling system and now at idle for 30+ minutes the temp climbed to 199 and didn’t fluctuate. I turned the AC and the radiator cooling fan was blowing hot air (whooo hoo!).

The state forest road I live on has almost no traffic and nice rolling hills (nothing major). I am able to keep a steady 40mph with light throttle in 4th. I noted the temp fluctuated to 210+ on some of the uphills and drop to 196 on the downhills (no throttle). Most of the time it stuck @205. The temp changed quite quickly from 210 to 196 maybe 30 seconds or less? on downhills . Overall drive was 30 minutes and I repeated the course 3 times and the temp was repeatable per hills and downhills.

It’s been almost 2 years since I put any real miles on the car but i want think this this was the behavior that was slowly developing before the overheat. I was keeping a close eye on the temp. I would assume if it’s a thermostat then it would stick open? and it’s possible I still have and air bubble?

Before pulling into my driveway from a stop i did a moderately hard acceleration. The car pulled strong for 5 seconds then started to bugle. I didn’t catch the boost but at some point it was at least 8 psi ( one again i was not pushing it). I checked the hoses and everything felt firm retest the boost with moderate throttle and it’s defiantly turbo boost leaking someplace as it stops when throttle lifts and the waist gate opens.

I don’t remember being able to hear the waist dump so clearly. My turbo plumbing is still OEM.

Currently I am not getting any boost at moderate throttle and only 5 psi at full throttle. No cels.

My DDM IC charge pipes arrived today after ~6 month back order with new spring clamps ( second big yeeeha of the day) so I will have a good chunk of the IC plumbing apart and will double check the rest.

Thinking a root causes:
My current intercooler is a DDM and that thing is built like a tank! I inspected it very closely prior to reinstall and didn’t see any signs of blowout.

I would assume that loosing that much forced air should be easy to find? My logic is 10-20 psi should need a sizable hole to escape? unless the computer is pull boost for other reason ( no error codes ). I also recently installed a DDM oil catch can and had the EGR off.

Any thoughts are welcome, even those comments like “you should only change one thing at a time” 🤪

Thank you in advance
 

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The LNF engines have what is called DFCO (I think those are the letters) where if the vehicle is in gear and the clutch pedal is not pressed (if it is a standard) and you are not stepping on the accelerator the ECM cuts the fuel going to the engine. Because there is no combustion when this is being done because of there not being any fuel the engine is being turned by the weight of the car. This turn the car into a big air pump and it is not generating any new heat. So it rapidly cools the engine.

250-260 is the overheat temp on the car depending on altitude. having the temps go up to 225 with the AC on and it's a hot day is normal. You may still have a small air bubble in the system and it should work it's self out of the coolant system after a few full heat ups and cool downs =. just remember to check you overflow level before you take the car out and if it is low while the engine is cool fill it to the 1/2 way mark on the overflow.

with your temps where they are at I wouldn't be all that concerned.

finish up your IC pipe change and make sure the clamps are good and tight. You may not get a DTC for several key cycles/heat up cool down cycles for the boost issue.

Wastegates are progressive meaning they will typically start to open somewhere around 1/2 the maximum set boost pressure.. It's not like they all of a sudden snap open.... Our cars have internal wastegate, what that means is there is a door inside of the turbine housing that has an actuator arm attached to it. This type of design is known to get stuck. If you take the vacuum line off the round can under the turbo you should be able to grab the bar coming out of the opposite side of the can that the vacuum line was attached and move it.The rod moves in and out of the can. You can do that to see if it's moving or if it is stuck open.

There is an adjustment on that rod. Take a photo of that rod and adjustment and post it here. It could be that the adjustment has changed because the back nut wasn't tight and vibration moved the nuts and rod. We want to check that as well.

Once you check the movement of the rod and the adjustment if that all looks OK then I am going to have you do a couple of 3rd gear WOT pulls, rolling start with the RPM's at 3,000-3,500 and then floor it until just before the car bounces red line. When you see the RPMs at 6300 let off the accelerator as there is lag in the gauge and 6300 is right about when the engine is at 6500. You will be traveling at speeds in excess of 90 MPH so be safe when you do this and when there is no one else around. I want to see if we can't instigate some DTCs to get set, you should at the very least get a DTC for an underboost.

Your engine temps look good tho. 205 is a normal operating temperature and to have it drop into the high 190's when coasting is completely normal as well. I don't have any concern with your temps at the moment. do keep an eye on the temp gauge after you do a WOT run, during the run watch the boost gauge.
 
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