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Discussion Starter #1
We for sure are going to do a kit for the Solstice. The ecotec is an awesome motor and it would do very well with our turbo systems. It's the world's fastest 4 cylinder both in the 1/4 mile and at Bonneville. :patriot

We make rear mounted turbo kits for a number of vehicles. It would be easy to turn the Solstice into a 300-350 horse power car with a $4,000 kit. Check out our site and let me know what you think, we also have a ton of magazine articles out like this: http://popularhotrodding.com/tech/0411phr_sts/

Thanks.
Brady
 

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What we need (if we don't buy one) is a solstice close to Utah who wants a turbo system installed on their vehicle for cheap so we can do the development work. If you are in our part of the country and don't mind dropping off your vehicle for a week I would lov
e to work with you.
 

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I am sure there will be tons of people looking to the aftermarket for turbo and other power upgrades for the Solstice! Still, there is an advantage to waiting for GM to offer a boosted engine. It is warrantied from GM, where as an aftermarket setup (non GM Performance Parts anyway) will void the warranty. However, an aftermarket setup is definately worth considering!
 

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Just so others reading this thread don't get confused it wont void the warranty completely, but any item deamed broken due to the non-GM parts will have it's warranty voided. At least I know that's how Mitsubishi, Ford, and several other non US car makers warranties go. So if you put a turbo on, and your window crank breaks you're still good. However if you have an aftermarket turbo and your transmission dies, they can make a case saying that the extra power you were putting through due to the turbo caused it to fail, and is no longer their issue. I've talked to several people who have had this happen to them over the years.

That's why I personally will wait for GM Performance parts for power. But I'm all for other parts like suspension, tires, etc. Part of my $20k+ is paying for my 3 year warranty, and I don't want to just throw away that money I spent on it.
 

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brentil said:
Part of my $20k+ is paying for my 3 year warranty, and I don't want to just throw away that money I spent on it.

This is why I wish there was an option to lose the 3 Yr. warranty and get a discount for doing so.
 

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brentil said:
Just so others reading this thread don't get confused it wont void the warranty completely, but any item deamed broken due to the non-GM parts will have it's warranty voided. At least I know that's how Mitsubishi, Ford, and several other non US car makers warranties go. So if you put a turbo on, and your window crank breaks you're still good. However if you have an aftermarket turbo and your transmission dies, they can make a case saying that the extra power you were putting through due to the turbo caused it to fail, and is no longer their issue. I've talked to several people who have had this happen to them over the years.

That's why I personally will wait for GM Performance parts for power. But I'm all for other parts like suspension, tires, etc. Part of my $20k+ is paying for my 3 year warranty, and I don't want to just throw away that money I spent on it.
Just to piggyback on this, there's actually a law on the books that clarifies what can and cannot be voided. It says exactly what Brentil has explained. It's the Magnuson/Moss Warranty act of 1979 (not 100% certain on the year, but I'm pretty sure it's '79... just too lazy to look it up at this time). Basically, it states that the burdon of proof lies with the manufacturer to prove that the aftermarket part contributed to the failure of the OEM parts being claimed under warranty in order for said warranty to be void. So they could reasonably claim that your aftermarket power-adder caused your transmission failure (though that would be up for debate), but they can't reasonably claim it caused your water pump to fail, for example. An unscrupulous dealership service department would try, though. To claim for example that since you have a K&N filter, they can't replace your windshield wiper motor under warranty, on the other hand, is clearly rediculous.
 

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... though I have seen them void warranties on MAF sensors that failed in cars with K&N filters. There is some creedence to that one, since MAF sensors are precise instruments and their readings can be skewed by the film left on them by the filter oil. A malfunctioning MAF sensor can cause some pretty nasty conditions under certain circumstances. I've heard rumors of grenaded motors being blamed on K&N filters, and thus not replaced under warranty!

Not that I have anything against K&N, in fact I use their filters. I'm just real careful not to over-oil them since I heard of the MAF issue.
 

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Yellatec said:
This is why I wish there was an option to lose the 3 Yr. warranty and get a discount for doing so.
That would be awesome!

Anyway, the Magnusson Moss act is there for your protection, but like anything else you have to fight the dealership / regional rep or take them to court and it can be a pain anyway. Educating yourself and making sure your Service Manager knows you are well versed is your greatest defense.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm
 

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Yellatec said:
This is why I wish there was an option to lose the 3 Yr. warranty and get a discount for doing so.
Actually...

Saturn has recently expanded their "People First" campaign.
GM LINK

Here's the part I'm refering to...

The new commercials close with a billboard and voiceover that briefly describes a new program that lets customers who buy or lease a 2005 Ion, Vue or Relay choose either extended vehicle coverage or a "personalization allowance." The extended protection provides 5-year/60,000-mile, whichever comes first. (The extended vehicle coverage is available as a limited warranty in the state of Florida.) Those who opt for the personalization allowance receive the standard 3-year/36,000-mile (whichever comes first) warranty plus an allowance of $1,000 on the Ion and $1,250 on the Vue or Relay.
So, there you go. You got what you asked for kinda :D You can't get rid of the entire thing, but you can save some.
 

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Maybe the reason companies do not offer their warranty as an option is fear of some kind of litigation coming back at them when the car breaks down right away and the owner claims it was damaged from the beginning. With the warranty, the company simply fixes it, no questions asked. But if they sell the car without the warranty, and the engine blows up 25 miles off the lot, or the transmission grenades 100 miles off the lot, who is going to pay? The owner will obviously think it was bad before he bought it, but the company is not going to want to replace it because the warranty is gone.

Then we get into a situation of implied warranties, and having to sell products that work as advertised. Sounds like litigations could get expensive for the auto companies even if they won these cases. Its probably easier and cheaper to put the warranty on, and since everyone does, they are not losing sales anyway.
 

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That's what the Lemon Laws protect you from. At least here in FL I know we have them, not sure if it's nation wide or not.
 

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brentil said:
That's what the Lemon Laws protect you from. At least here in FL I know we have them, not sure if it's nation wide or not.
Each state has a lemon law, but would it really work without a warranty? The lemon law in NY is based on an implied warranty, and if a defect cannot be repaired in the first 12 months after so many attempts then the lemon law can be enacted and the car replaced. I think it may be 4 or 6 attempts or something like that (and there are some other clauses too, such as the dealer refusing to repair it).

However, what would happen if there was no warranty? If you had an engine problem, would you want to pay a dealer to tear down and rebuild your motor 4-6 times before the lemon law is enacted? That could get pricey. 4-6 new transmissions? Ouch!

Then you’re not going to want to pay, but if you pass up the warranty coverage that would have covered the parts and labor, you might be liable. Especially if the agreement to pass up the warranty coverage informed you that you would be liable for all repairs made or attempted on the vehicle. You’d equally be up the creek in costs in they repaired it in 3 attempts, or in some other way did not meet the requirements of the lemon law for a buyback.
 

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horsepower good, warranty specifics bad....

After everything is said and done Im still mucho excited about an aftermarket turbo, 300-350hp :thumbs ! is A-ok with me. I suppose the real question is, do we think the transmission, and I keep hearing about this excellent kappa architecture, could handle the extra strain? Im guessing yes...now if the concept vette tranny was left in the mix im sure most doubts would go out the window....but then, Id like to think the transmission would hold out well beyond the 3 year warranty anyway. In anycase, I love the idea of a turbo! new hope! Now is 4k for parts AND labor plausible? I was half expecting them to put out a s/c and non s/c version upon release, and would expect a price jump of maybe 4-5k for the supercharged, so if Im paying 20k for the car itself, and another 4-5 for the turbo, Im still in the green as far as value goes
 

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just a thing to think about, is that it will be MUCH more benificial to wait for the 2.0 s/c or t/c (whichever it might be) and go aftermarket with that. you get a beefed up engine, drivetrain (i assume) and i'm sure some other luxuries to go with it all. that way you're not going to have to touch internals on this beast ever, unless you're going to want some 600hp+ monster
 

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Vita said:
just a thing to think about, is that it will be MUCH more benificial to wait for the 2.0 s/c or t/c (whichever it might be) and go aftermarket with that. you get a beefed up engine, drivetrain (i assume) and i'm sure some other luxuries to go with it all. that way you're not going to have to touch internals on this beast ever, unless you're going to want some 600hp+ monster
Just be aware though we don't know if the 2.0L engine being Supercharged or Turbocharged is what the Solstice will get WHEN/IF it gets something. There has been no official information about a higher output version, and what you read in magazines (unless directly quoted from a GM employee) does not count.
 

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Vita said:
just a thing to think about, is that it will be MUCH more benificial to wait for the 2.0 s/c or t/c (whichever it might be) and go aftermarket with that. you get a beefed up engine, drivetrain (i assume) and i'm sure some other luxuries to go with it all. that way you're not going to have to touch internals on this beast ever, unless you're going to want some 600hp+ monster
Definately a good point. A factory supercharged/turbocharged engine is likely to have already been beefed up. The Ion Redline motor has had a number of enhancements done to it already, and it is using a much stronger Saab transmission than is in the base vehicle. It would make a good and likely cheaper starting point for a buildup than the base engine would.

However, if your thing is doing the work yourself, there is more fun in building the base motor too.
 

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IIRC, the bottom end of the motor going in these cars is going to be pretty susbtantial regardless. There will even be piston-cooling oil jets. Practically unheard of in a N/A factory engine, and quite beneficial in a forced-induction motor.
 

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2KWK4U said:
IIRC, the bottom end of the motor going in these cars is going to be pretty susbtantial regardless. There will even be piston-cooling oil jets. Practically unheard of in a N/A factory engine, and quite beneficial in a forced-induction motor.
Yeah, the 2.4L ECOTEC VVT takes a lot of technologies from the 2.0L Supercharged ECOTEC, the SAAB Turbocharged engine, plus some other technologies. Here's a good [LINK] of the new ECOTEC line-up for this coming year. I'll list the items for those who haven't seen this before.
  • Electronic throttle control - the ETC system eliminates the physical connection between the accelerator pedal and the engine throttle. This allows for remarkably precise engine control and response, while simultaneously enhancing the engine’s interface with other vehicle systems.
  • An advanced engine control module (E67) – the Ecotec 2.4L VVT is one of the first GM engines to employ this sophisticated controller that leverages 32-bit processing power. It incorporates 32 megabytes of burst flash memory, 32 kilobytes of external RAM and 36 kilobytes of internal RAM, as well as a high- speed CAN bus to deliver optimal networking capability.
  • Individual coil-on-plug ignition modules – improves upon the two-coil “cassette” of the original Ecotec 2.2L. The individual ignition modules for each spark plug enhance combustion and engine energy efficiency.
  • An auxiliary oil cooler that is approximately 30 percent smaller (dimensionally) than similar-capacity oil coolers used on other engines
  • Piston-cooling oil jets that spray the underside of each piston with a continuous bath of engine oil, increasing longevity by reducing engine-operating temperatures
  • Redesigned cylinder head with structural improvements and new multi-layer steel gasket
  • New camshafts with optimized lobe profiles
  • Enhanced lubrication system to provide for the extra requirements of the camshaft phasers and piston-cooling jets, along with a deeper oil sump to handle the higher potential cornering forces possible with the Ecotec 2.4-liter-equipped Cobalt.
This motor looks like it's going to be an extremely solid platform. They're already pimping the 2.2L ECOTEC as a bullet proof platform to tune the heck out of. I can't wait to see what can be done with this engine, it looks like were in for an extremely impressive engine.
 
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