Pontiac Solstice Forum banner

21 - 40 of 71 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
116 Posts
The initial rough idle and exhaust burbling for a few seconds after cold start is the CAT heating phase. It is a separate cold start routine in the programming to bring the CAT up to operating temperature as quickly as possible. The colder it is, the more noticeable and for a slightly longer period. Don't worry about it. You should hear a V10 R8 or a Lambo after cold start. Sounds like a top fuel dragster idling for 10 or 15 seconds....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
The initial rough idle and exhaust burbling for a few seconds after cold start is the CAT heating phase. It is a separate cold start routine in the programming to bring the CAT up to operating temperature as quickly as possible. The colder it is, the more noticeable and for a slightly longer period. Don't worry about it. You should hear a V10 R8 or a Lambo after cold start. Sounds like a top fuel dragster idling for 10 or 15 seconds....
I don't remember it ever doing this before when it was cold. It only started doing this about 2 weeks ago. When we had snow back in December here in TX I had to park my car outside that night. It was very cold, colder than it has been here lately and when I started the car up in the morning, it never did the rumbling noise even then. Is it possible my CAT is going bad? At least that would still be covered by the warranty. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
UPDATE! It's an electrical bug!

So the other night when I removed the evap sensor/solenoid to test it, I decided to clean all of the electrical connections that were involved with the cylinder #1; the fuel injector #1 connection, fuel pump and fuel rail connections and even the EVAP connection. I figured it couldn't hurt. I did this late at night and then went to bed.

By the way, the EVAP solenoid tested fine and works properly. No leaks and no whistling when I blew into it.

The next day when I started up the car after it was sitting all night and engine was cold, it fired right up with NO HESITATION! No misfire, no rough idle, NADDA! I was so dam happy and thought, must have been a bad connection. So I drove it to work and parked it in our garage. Let it sit all day until it was time to go home. Started up the car, and again it fired right up with NO HESITATION at all, and again no misfire. Drove it home and parked it.

This morning when I went to start it, the rough idle was back and I got the dreaded misfire code P0301 again. So now I know it's an electrical issue. I just don't know if it is an actual bad wire, or a bad connection that needs to be replaced? I cleaned so many different connections with connector spray that I'm not sure which one is the cause. So for now, I'm going to just start with one at a time until I can duplicate it again and it runs normal again. I have 1 week until I get paid and then it's off to the mechanic to explain what I found.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,287 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #26

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
309 Posts
Careful, dielectric grease is non conductive. Too much and........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,639 Posts
Pull each connection apart and carefully inspect the micro pins. Both the male and female connectors. Look for white calcium carbonate deposits. This will cause intermittent electrical connections. (usually caused by a failed weather seal in the pigtail harness connection) Watch for bad weather seals, when you take a connection apart. Make sure one of the little seals hasn't been compromised. They tend to get folded over on themselves, or torn.

Also check that each pin fits snugly into the female side. They make a little tool to re-size and repair the pin connections; you can probably find it at an auto parts store. From the description of behavior; it sounds like you have a marginal connection that only fails when cold. As the engine warms up, the pins expand and the connection is completed. But the same could be true for a mild calcium carbonate deposit on one of the pins. Once warmed up, the pin makes contact despite a little bit of deposit on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
Pull each connection apart and carefully inspect the micro pins. Both the male and female connectors. Look for white calcium carbonate deposits. This will cause intermittent electrical connections. (usually caused by a failed weather seal in the pigtail harness connection) Watch for bad weather seals, when you take a connection apart. Make sure one of the little seals hasn't been compromised. They tend to get folded over on themselves, or torn.

Also check that each pin fits snugly into the female side. They make a little tool to re-size and repair the pin connections; you can probably find it at an auto parts store. From the description of behavior; it sounds like you have a marginal connection that only fails when cold. As the engine warms up, the pins expand and the connection is completed. But the same could be true for a mild calcium carbonate deposit on one of the pins. Once warmed up, the pin makes contact despite a little bit of deposit on it.
This is what I told the dealership when I went last week, I even showed them a print out about a pigtail connector posting from another forum member that showed the exact part number for replacement because it was supposed to be defective on the 08' GXP, which was causing a bad connection with the fuel injection rail, they took my print out with the service bulletin and brought it to their service guy and a few minutes later they came back out with a print out of their own saying the cause is most likely the spark plugs, and that I should switch to the newer "hotter" plugs. Stupid thing is after I removed the stock plugs, the part numbers on the old plugs were the same as what they were recommending. The car already had the correct new plugs installed because mine is an 08', only the earlier 07's came with the older plugs. So basically it seems I was right from the beginning, it's a connection failure, not a spark plug/coil problem. When will dealerships listen to us!

By the way, the car only has 25K miles on it, not sure how I could get any corrosion because I keep my car in a garage too. All of the connections looked brand new when I disconnected each one of them. I did not see any corrosion or white stuff at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,639 Posts
There can easily be a defective weather seal from the factory, I found that one out the hard way after letting GM screw with my car for two years. Finally got a field engineer to look at it; and he found the problem in 15 minutes. Bad weather seal on the main ECM harness, resulting in calcium carbonate deposits on the micro pins.

On my car, there were a total of three bad wiring connections from the factory:

1. HPFP Control Solenoid (resulting in misfires and A/F issues at WOT)

2. Tail Light main wiring harness buss (resulted in two fried ECM's because a 12V line was shorting back through the 5V data line straight back to the ECM)

3. ECM harness (resulted in two solid years of complete chaos. Car would die violently in the middle of traffic putting myself and anyone with me in harms way; this happened at least 25 times. And, in my opinion; ultimately resulted in a micro fracture of the water jacket of engine block)

Granted, my experiences have been less than typical. But if I were you, I wouldn't discount anything as being unlikely.

Another good diagnostic to do might be: With the car idling, go around and wiggle each wiring connection individually, while observing for a change in the idle. (This is how the tech found my bad HPFP Control Solenoid wiring connection. He was plugged in with the Tech II and observing engine parameters. As soon as he wiggled that wire: A/F went out of parameter and idle jacked all up, as well as misfire city)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
I will try the wiggle at idle. It's hard to do though because it only last for a few seconds until it warms up. But that all it takes sometimes to set off the code and misfire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,983 Posts
There can easily be a defective weather seal from the factory, I found that one out the hard way after letting GM screw with my car for two years. Finally got a field engineer to look at it; and he found the problem in 15 minutes. Bad weather seal on the main ECM harness, resulting in calcium carbonate deposits on the micro pins.

On my car, there were a total of three bad wiring connections from the factory:

1. HPFP Control Solenoid (resulting in misfires and A/F issues at WOT)

2. Tail Light main wiring harness buss (resulted in two fried ECM's because a 12V line was shorting back through the 5V data line straight back to the ECM)

3. ECM harness (resulted in two solid years of complete chaos. Car would die violently in the middle of traffic putting myself and anyone with me in harms way; this happened at least 25 times. And, in my opinion; ultimately resulted in a micro fracture of the water jacket of engine block)

Granted, my experiences have been less than typical. But if I were you, I wouldn't discount anything as being unlikely.

Another good diagnostic to do might be: With the car idling, go around and wiggle each wiring connection individually, while observing for a change in the idle. (This is how the tech found my bad HPFP Control Solenoid wiring connection. He was plugged in with the Tech II and observing engine parameters. As soon as he wiggled that wire: A/F went out of parameter and idle jacked all up, as well as misfire city)
Should have bought a Ford...LOL. They would have bought it back after the 3rd time it stalled and you had it towed back in! Ford was very good about this! We had an MKT that would die in traffic. After 6 weeks of the FSE being out and trying to duplicate it, they said it was due to the DVD headrests we installed aftermarket and not OEM recommended. So they sent out a TSB that said we were to no longer use non-Ford authorized parts while the vehicle was under warranty or it would result on the installer being 100% liable for ANY failure..... LOL..... The guy got another MKT and we installed "OEM" plug 'n' play DVD headrests....and he had no problem with the new car....

:hijack:

We now return you to our regularly scheduled broadcast..... :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,983 Posts
This is what I told the dealership when I went last week, I even showed them a print out about a pigtail connector posting from another forum member that showed the exact part number for replacement because it was supposed to be defective on the 08' GXP, which was causing a bad connection with the fuel injection rail, they took my print out with the service bulletin and brought it to their service guy and a few minutes later they came back out with a print out of their own saying the cause is most likely the spark plugs, and that I should switch to the newer "hotter" plugs. Stupid thing is after I removed the stock plugs, the part numbers on the old plugs were the same as what they were recommending. The car already had the correct new plugs installed because mine is an 08', only the earlier 07's came with the older plugs. So basically it seems I was right from the beginning, it's a connection failure, not a spark plug/coil problem. When will dealerships listen to us!

By the way, the car only has 25K miles on it, not sure how I could get any corrosion because I keep my car in a garage too. All of the connections looked brand new when I disconnected each one of them. I did not see any corrosion or white stuff at all.
A service tech will NEVER listen to anyone......

Why?

Because if he does and you're wrong, will you be happy with what he did??? NO! If you tell him your waterpump is bad because it's leaking and he replaces and it still leaks because it's the hose just above the waterpump, are you going to be happy because you just spent $700? Probably not. And you're still going to have the problem. It's like going to the doctor and telling him you have hemorrhoids....and he treats you for them. Did you have hemorrhoids? No, you just had a sore butt! But you got treated for hemorrhoids..... Get my point? Don't EVER tell a tech what's wrong with your car, unless you have some credibility with him. By that I mean you've had your car there numerous times and talked with him about it. The minute you tell a tech what's wrong....all he hears after that is "blah blah blah"...... To him you are just one of the other 50 "know it alls" that he sees on a daily basis.... Sorry if that hurts, it's the truth...trust me, I have almost 20 years of dealer experience!

Before you walk in with a piece of paper for you're service advisor, you have to have a rapport with him. He has to know you by name...and not by name because you're "that guy" that always tells him what's wrong with your car, and your only right 50% of the time. Like with my GM guy, he knows me. He knows that I know what I'm talking about. I've dealt with him for over 20 years. (Even though I've been employed in Lincoln dealers for that long!) So, don't be "that guy". Build a rapport with him/her. Talk to them. Build that business relationship.... And don't jump from dealer to dealer....not a good idea. Find a GREAT dealer and stick with them. I'll get off my soap box now.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #34 (Edited)
I had that kind of relationship, but I recently moved. So now I have to start all over again and find a new place to go. Trust me, when you have a bright red Pontiac Solstice named Red Devil that was on a TV show called MY RIDE RULES, mechanics and dealerships remember you, get to know you and start to listen to you. So now I'm also starting over with a new version of the same car, GXP and I'm learning myself about the problems that come with owning a 2.0ltr.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #35
So last night I added some electro-light grease to the fuel injector connection for the #1 fuel injector. This morning when I started it up it still felt the same with the rough idle but this time I had the hood up and started feeling the wires that were all connected to the fuel rail and injectors. First one I touched was the one I put the electro-light grease on and I immediately felt it pulsating through my finger tips. Is this normal? I don't think it is and believe it may be the source of my problem. I felt several other wires and none of them pulsate like this. It seems to be the only one doing this. Anyone know if this wire will pulsate in conjunction with the fuel HP fuel pump?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,004 Posts
So last night I added some electro-light grease to the fuel injector connection for the #1 fuel injector. This morning when I started it up it still felt the same with the rough idle but this time I had the hood up and started feeling the wires that were all connected to the fuel rail and injectors. First one I touched was the one I put the electro-light grease on and I immediately felt it pulsating through my finger tips. Is this normal? I don't think it is and believe it may be the source of my problem. I felt several other wires and none of them pulsate like this. It seems to be the only one doing this. Anyone know if this wire will pulsate in conjunction with the fuel HP fuel pump?
Interesting. You may be getting electrical leakage feeding-through your fingers (basically you are grounding the wire and getting a slight electrical shock - which feels like physical movement). Test it again by touching lightly with just a fingertip vs. holding it hard with two fingers. If you are getting electrical leakage that certainly implies something is wrong... maybe the injector or maybe the wiring itself. Try testing the resistance of that injector, vs the others. Otherwise test the connections are all firm and clean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,721 Posts
Discussion Starter #37 (Edited)
Yeah, I think I've done all I can for now. With this new info. I will take what I have learned to the dealership and have them help me. I don't have an electric meter reading device. But I definitely think this is the problem. Thanks everyone for your help! I will keep everyone posted in the next few days with the results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Consider yourself lucky.
Please keep us posted on what the dealership status once it's in for repairs. Feel free to PM us but please include your VIN#, name + contact information, situation, dealership, and mileage. I hope this is taken care of quickly for you.

Matt,

GM Customer Assistance
 
21 - 40 of 71 Posts
Top