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How much are you willing to spend for more power?

  • $1,000 - $2,000

    Votes: 3 12.0%
  • $2k - $3k

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • $3k - $4k

    Votes: 5 20.0%
  • $4k - $5k

    Votes: 4 16.0%
  • $5k - $6k

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • $7k - $8k

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $8k - $9k

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • $9k - $10k

    Votes: 1 4.0%
  • $10k+

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't want more power.

    Votes: 7 28.0%

  • Total voters
    25
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Discussion Starter #1
I was having fun with Excel again, and decided to make some charts of various cars and their various power output forms in comparison to prices, HP gain, and Torque gain. The quick jist is that the following values are the average of what I found from comparing 36 various combinations.
  • Price Inc 32.29%
  • HP Inc 38.30%
  • TQ Inc 30.97%
So if the price went up from $20,000 to $26,458 that would mean an average HP increase to 235.11HP and an average increase of Torque to 222.649 lbs-ft. If you look at the .xls file you can see all the lovely values for each car. I tried to make images but the 800x640 size limitation makes them unreadable.

My main question though, is what are YOU willing to pay for more power? I'm going to leave the ammount of power open ended, so you can choose a price range and then explain how much extra power you would expect for the extra money. The poll is multiple selection so you can choose multiple answers if you want there to be different price points.
 

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Tough to say. It would all depend on what method they use for more HP and how well it really works. I chose 4-5k because at some point it's not all that important to me and I'm sure I can get pretty good results doing the work myself for that amount. For my 4-5k I would expect to get about a 40 to 60 HP increase. I don't think that's unreasonable.

If it's a supercharger I'll probably go for it. If it's a turbocharger or V6, I'll have to be convinced by a test drive. My concern for the turbo is where the power is made in the powerband, how much lag there is (I hate turbo lag) and how much it complicates working on the engine. My concern with the V6 is just how much the extra weight will effect handeling. The supercharger will have to convince me too, but more than likely it will be more what I'm looking for. I'm not really affraid to buy the base engine and walk away from a higher HP option if it doesn't have significant increases. I'm sure 170hp will make me happy enough..... for a time. :jester
 

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Damn. Nice work on the spreadsheet. You captured just about everything I wanted to know about the other cars I am looking at.

I would kick down 5k for 220+ HP. And dual exhaust. Just because it looks cool. The car is so inexpensive, those of us with some money to spend who just like it because it looks hot would definately go for the supercharged version.

I'm kind of thinking about getting an RSX now and waiting for more HP on the solstice before I buy.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I went with $3k-$4k. If it's mainly a power boost an no real extra options that's the msot I'm going to pay. Because if it's a SuperCharger or TurboCharger I can buy an aftemarket kit for about the same thing that will produce more power. However as I've said before in other threads I'd prefer to have a dealer isntalable or factory option because I want my warranty. So I'm willing to pay more to get that then an aftermarket install. I'd be willing to also pay between $4k-$6k for an entire sports package type option. Dual exhaust, intercooler sprayer, sports suspension, sports styling, etc.

solsticegirl: my woman has a RSX (non S). She likes her car, but I have an issue with it myself. I'm 5'9" and where I sit in the car is fairly high (I also sit very tall too), so it's really hard for me to see out the rear of the car or the sides. I have to literally turn all the way around to check behind me. However my woman who is much shorter has no issue seeing out of the car.
 

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I keep thinking back to that article that's linked somewhere in the news section, the one that talks about how everyone clamoring for more horsepower is what turned the Z3 from a nice simple 4 cylinder roadster that cost just over 20 grand into a 6 cylinder Z4 that 'starts' at 33 grand.

Mazda never worried too much about Miata h.p., and they sold them by the boatload basically unchanged for over a decade.

Could everyone wanting more horsepower, even before any of us have driven one, be bad in the long run for the Solstice?

Probably not, but I'm naturally paranoid.
 

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AztekzRpurty said:
...the Z3 from a nice simple 4 cylinder roadster that cost just over 20 grand ...
WHAT!?!?!? 2000 Z3's retail for over 20 grand right now!

I looked seriously at a Z3, retail in 1999 and 2000 was north of $30K by quite a bit (the 2.8l - I think the 4 cyl version was just - and only just - south of $30K).

The Z4 took a major MAJOR jump up - by almost $10k to LO-MID 40's!!!!

And although you can get a Z4 4 cylinder for a little more than the old Z3 6 cyl, what's the point?

I don't think there were any pretenses that the Z3 was a bargain sports car.

But this should give some indication that BMW does want to get into miata territory:
http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2004/040325bmw-1series/
and here:
http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2002/geneva/highlights/h05-bmw-cs1.html
and from here:
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,14129-1149795,00.html
"It is not a two-seater, nor is it a convertible — yet — ..."
Supposed to be pricing is going to be pretty competitive - although performance specs seem pretty anemic.
The 1-series started life as a RWD convertible roadster... yet another one... that was going to sell for some outrageously low price.
 

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AztekzRpurty said:
I keep thinking back to that article that's linked somewhere in the news section, the one that talks about how everyone clamoring for more horsepower is what turned the Z3 from a nice simple 4 cylinder roadster that cost just over 20 grand into a 6 cylinder Z4 that 'starts' at 33 grand.

Mazda never worried too much about Miata h.p., and they sold them by the boatload basically unchanged for over a decade.

Could everyone wanting more horsepower, even before any of us have driven one, be bad in the long run for the Solstice?

Probably not, but I'm naturally paranoid.
That's why they need to offer an option, so they can service both markets, simple low cost roadster and more powerful competion roadster.
:cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #8
AztekzRpurty said:
I keep thinking back to that article that's linked somewhere in the news section, the one that talks about how everyone clamoring for more horsepower is what turned the Z3 from a nice simple 4 cylinder roadster that cost just over 20 grand into a 6 cylinder Z4 that 'starts' at 33 grand.

Mazda never worried too much about Miata h.p., and they sold them by the boatload basically unchanged for over a decade.

Could everyone wanting more horsepower, even before any of us have driven one, be bad in the long run for the Solstice?

Probably not, but I'm naturally paranoid.
See my whole desire for more power in the Solstice is all GM's fault. They showed us that 240HP is possible with off the shelf components for this car. So that's what I want :D
 

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solsticeman said:
Supposed to be pricing is going to be pretty competitive - although performance specs seem pretty anemic.
The 1-series started life as a RWD convertible roadster... yet another one... that was going to sell for some outrageously low price.
Thanks for posting those articals, but what the hell is "flame surfacing"? Does that mean "not sucking like most recent BMW design", or "our recent designs have crashed and burned and this is the result"? They should have stuck with the concept's headlamps, the production ones blow. Solstice has nothing to fear from BMW.
 

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All I ever look for is a good platform to build off of. I can make HP out of any car far cheaper than the OEM as I'm not constrained by emissions, mileage, warranty.
 

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This may sound crazy, but after owning 3 cars with relatively high performance, I actually want less power than I have now. The reason is that most of my driving is on the street and not the track. Winding out a very high performance car on the street is impractical for the most part, at least in my area. My priorities now are more in the handling department since I can appreciate things like razor sharp steering response much more often on the street.
 

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Good point about the handling. Handling and response time are the most important for street driving. Especially in CA when you have to cut people off at the drop of a dime and make sure you don't get hit!!
 

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to my way of thinking, the power/weight is well within the ballpark of the cars i think are fun rides. the variable valve timing hopefully is going to give us a nice broad torque curve- put that together with a stiff chassis, well tuned suspension and good feedback at the wheel (i'm a little worried about that) and it adds up to a fun ride.
will i pay for more power? sure...if it's done right-i'll pay for better handling too, but my hope is that the engineers are giving us 'go' to match the 'show'.
i ordered my bmw 323 with the sport package-a lower tighter suspension. given the choice to buy a 328 bmw (more power) and a 323 w/sport package - i do have a budget after all- i opted for the sport package. i drove a 328 for a few weeks, and never regret my choice for a less, powerful more athletic ride.
 

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Sorry Solsticeman,

I obviously don't know squat about BMW's. The article I was trying to paraphrase is eluding me. It was similar to this one.

http://www.forbes.com/columnists/2004/02/10/cz_jf_0210flint.html

"It's the low-priced idea that I like. Too often these cars are launched with somewhat affordable price tags--say low or middle $30,000s, like the BMW Z or the Mercedes SLK or Audi TT. But before long six-cylinder engines are replacing the fours and the prices run past $40,000."
Does anyone remember the one I'm talking about? The writer kept saying he hopes the 'racer boys' at GM keep their hands off the Solstice.

Personally, I just want it to be quick off the line with some torque, and I'm already sure it will be agile. I'm just afraid when this thing is really popular, we'll see Bob Lutz's 'line in the sand' 20 grand start moving up, and up, and up.
 

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the 2.5 liter in my 2000 bmw 323i is a six-about 170hp, 184 ft/lb torque. the Z3 came with a 2.5 also- i thought it was an inline 6 like my sedan. i think my sedan is just about 3000 lb, and it doesn't feel underpowered, although the 2.8L six is noticeably stronger.
the z4 to my mind is just plain ugly. it is also well north of 30 grand. a nonstarter for me.
the 323i is a pleasure to drive because the whole package works well. I am hoping that the solstice, which looks great by the pictures and great by the specs, will be as much fun to drive as we all hope. to deliver this at the 20G price point makes it much more attractive to me.
i'd spend a bit more for a sport package, bet it suspension and/or motor enhancements, but i am not willing to wait another year for a solstice-i'm waiting too long already.
 

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AztekzRpurty said:
Sorry Solsticeman,

I obviously don't know squat about BMW's. The article I was trying to paraphrase is eluding me. It was similar to this one.

http://www.forbes.com/columnists/2004/02/10/cz_jf_0210flint.html



Does anyone remember the one I'm talking about? The writer kept saying he hopes the 'racer boys' at GM keep their hands off the Solstice.

Personally, I just want it to be quick off the line with some torque, and I'm already sure it will be agile. I'm just afraid when this thing is really popular, we'll see Bob Lutz's 'line in the sand' 20 grand start moving up, and up, and up.

Very good quote. I think that's why we'll never see a V-6, I-6, or v-8 on the Kappa. If you want that (a 2-seat V8 with great power at around 3050 lbs curb - BUY A CORVETTE!!!!), you're missing that point with the Solstice. Affordable and fun, great handling and steering, BACK TO BASICS. A 6 cyl motor not only increases price and power, it increases weight, rotational inertia, etc and is certainly not "basic". Which drives bigger brakes, which drives more weight, all of which increases cost. So you go from a $20,000 bargain sports car to a $31,000 or more roadster.

As Lutz has been quoted: "The world does not need another $40,000 roadster..."
 

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brentil: With regards to the RSX, I'm only 5'4" so I don't think that will be an issue. How does she like the RSX over all? I was about to run out and get one before I saw the solstice prototype advertised on cars direct. Now I am torn...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
She really likes it. But she was used to four door, V6 powered sedans beforehand. For what it is she loves it. She just wishes it had a nice V6, 4 doors, and more room :D
 

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solsticegirl said:
brentil: I was about to run out and get one before I saw the solstice prototype advertised on cars direct. Now I am torn...
The RSX is pretty much a regular car. Nice, practical, ordinary car. Your Grandma could buy one and live with it just fine. The Solstice, or any roadster, is a lifestyle choice. :thumbs
 

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Darkhamr said:
All I ever look for is a good platform to build off of. I can make HP out of any car far cheaper than the OEM as I'm not constrained by emissions, mileage, warranty.
I couldn't agree more. I see the FI Solstice as a starting point from which I can easily add power with pulleys or boost controllers. We can add power more cheaply than GM can for the reasons mentioned above.

What we CAN'T add cheaper than GM can is things like forged pistons, a beefier transmission, engine maps for high boost pressure, etc. So here's hoping the platform is a good one.

-Stephen M
 
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