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Discussion Starter #1
I know this may realy bug some people but I will do it any way for the people that dont mind discusing KAPPA options ;)

I went to the GM dealer to get the price of some BRAND NEW crate motors from the Caddy CTS and the I4 Echtech and some others but what I was told suprized me :thumbs:
The price of a new crate engine from a Caddy CTS 3.6 DOHC 60* VVT High Feture is $4,800. :)
The price for a new crate I4 2.2 (the 2.4 is more expensive because of the VVT and is not listed yet) Echtech is $4,700. :lol:
Now I also tried to get some other parts prices but obviously the Sol is not listed yet so I gave up. Sence I dont konw what the KAPPA shares with other GM cars?

So will a V6 KAPPA cost $100 more than an I4? No BUT the realy big thing here is that the cost diferance between the two engines is WAY less than even I thaught :cool:
Now if they had a 2.4 VVT I4 Echotech would it cost more than the V6 I think GM will eventualy put in the KAPPA? :yesnod: At least for now yes it will cost more for an Echotech I4 2.4 VVT because GM is not making them in VAST numbers yet. So My "opinion" is that the V6 would be a cheaper engine as of the avalability right now. When GM makes 10,000 of the 2.4's then the buggs will be workrd out of the system and flowing smoothly and the price of manufacture will come down as it has for the 3.6 High Value V6 :)

Now this is all my opinion based on some facts that were confirmed from the local dealer's computer so if anyone wants to discus the posability some more PLEASE fell free. But if all you want to do is cry about how it will make the KAPPA to exensive or dont line up with Bob Lutz's Mission statement "Basic Roadster" for the Solstice then please keep that to a minimum as this is not a topic about a "Basic Roadster" This is a topic about a V6 option for ANY KAPPA, Pontiac, Saturn, Olds, Caddy or any other GM division that decides to take up the KAPPA and run with it ;)

Another reason I started this thread is so people that are tired of my V6 opinion wont have to see me post about it all the time. I will post in this thread and leave the others alone. ;)
 

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I think that if I ever get tired of the motor, I'll do a monster Twin Turbo V-8 Solstice. The underhood area looks bigger than a miata's, and here's a pic of an LS1 vs a Miata motor

here's another pic


but then that'd be a couple years down the road after owning the roadster for a few years. He He He, this is all just my idea of fun :lol:
 

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:brentil:

Gotta admire your persistance, Rickady88GT. That's all I'm gonna say.
 

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If GM does put a 6 in it ain't gonna be for anywhere close to 4 cyl price. Don't care what the parts cost. If they are getting 20k for base 4 cyls, 25k for 4 cyl FI, then trust me they'll add $10k for a 6 cyl. HP = profit in sports cars.
 

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Rick, if every prospective Solstice owner had your enthusiasm and drive for a V6 motor, I think the General would be compelled to build one!

I admire your passion. Keep GM's feet to the fire and you never know. Dreams do happen. :blueangel
 

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I've researched the crate engines before so I have an idea on their prices. I went and looked again to get an idea on price since you can buy them all online where you can find MSRP and the actual selling prices.

  • LS2 6.0 Gen IV 2005 Production Engine # 12499750
    • RETAIL: $7,500.00
    • PRICE: $5,895.00
  • LS1 Fuel Injected Engine with Computer # 25534322
    • RETAIL: $8,430.30
    • PRICE: $6,090.00
  • LS1 Production Engine # 12568722
    • RETAIL: $7,272.00
    • PRICE: $5,259.00
  • 3.8 3800 Series III Supercharged V-6 Engine # 12499470
    • RETAIL: $5,328.58
    • PRICE: $3,879.20
  • 3.6L VVT Engine (LY7) Vin code 7 12585320
    • RETAIL: ???
    • PRICE: $4,825.84
  • Ecotec Engine 2.0L Supercharged # 12499466
    • RETAIL: $5,100.00
    • PRICE: $3,815.00
  • Ecotec Engine 2.2 Naturally Aspirated # 12499679
    • RETAIL: $2,657.00
    • PRICE: $1,999.00
  • Cavalier/Sunfire 2.2 (LN2) New Goodwrench Engine # 88984244
    • RETAIL: $3,416.74
    • PRICE: $1,852.79
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I dont believe it is just a dream. I truely believe that GM will put a V6 in a KAPPA. Holden has already done it. For some reason people think GM never had plans for it? I have never seen any proof of that RUMOR. Yes a Boosted I4 may,....just may be easier? But I think it would be just as complex to do a boosted Echotech as it would be to do a V6.
 

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I just want to correct some parts so people reading this don't get the wrong info or idea. I believe you used the wrong values for your price comparison. The LY7 price you mentioned is a selling price and not MSRP, and the price you listed for the 2.2 ECOTEC I believe is actually closer to the MSRP and not selling price for the 2.0L Supercharged engine.

As you can see above I could buy right now online with my credit card a 2.2L ECOTEC for under $2000, but the LY7 sells for $2,800 more at $4800.

The reason I'm betting the 2.0L Supercharged engine is so much more is because it's imported from Germany, and is a low volume build too compared to the other engines which are base models for a lot of cars. Which is why I really believe they will eventually make a Forced Induction version of a domestic built high volume ECOTEC because it'll help drop the price greatly. Which will give them more profit on all the lines that use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ya you are right but it also prooves that it pays to shop around. they just tried to soak me $2,000 :leaving:
But it is posable that the price I quoted for the 2.2 may acualy be for the SC? But I dont think I made a mastake like that?
But for sure they did not have the price for the 2.4 VVT?
 

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Rickady88GT said:
Ya you are right but it also prooves that it pays to shop around. they just tried to soak me $2,000 :leaving:
But it is posable that the price I quoted for the 2.2 may acualy be for the SC? But I dont think I made a mastake like that?
But for sure they did not have the price for the 2.4 VVT?
Yeah, GM doesn't have the 2.4L listed anywhere's I know fo I can get prices for it since they don't have it have it out officially yet.
Possibly the person who gave you the numbers might have mixed up the 2.2L and the 2.0L Supercharged information too. The 2.2L ECOTEC is the RPO L61 and the 2.0L Supercharged is the RPO LSJ.
 

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You know, It will cost me over 3k to custom turbo this car. That is why I would rather pay for it from the factory. Even besides warrany issues, it is always easier to fit a cost into the payments, rather than come up with it later. More over , it is always cheaper anyways to have most power train option up front , instead of aftermarket. For example, A Quaife LSD is around 1300 right now, plus you have to pay for all the labor of dropping your tranny and cracking it open to put it in!. Yet, for most cars that offer one as an option, it is less than $300.00!!....
I really believe it will cost GM more to add a turbo, than put a v 6 in there!..the above spread shown by Brentil was 2800?? I am with Rickady, I will pay 22,800.00 for the v6 version :) ..all the probable S2000 buyers would surely tumble Gm's way :cool: ..I know its all been talked out, but I hope Rickady gets his way!!!
 

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Rickady88GT said:
...Holden has already done it...
Not to be nitpickey, Rick', but Holden did NOT do it. Just want to be as accurate as possible.

They built the Torana concept, which turned out to be only "based" on the same "type" of archictecture as the Kappa and the Corvette. The Corvette and the Kappa are very different (just look at the gas tank!!! :lol: JK - there's more to it than that!!!).

The Torana is, by itself, neither a Kappa nor a Vette - to be built as a prod car it would have to be another platform altogether. I'm pretty sure it (the concept) didn't even share any components with either the Vette nor the Solstice, unless it was lug nuts :) .

This was a big discussion over at C&G and GMI when it (the torana) came out. There was an assumption that the Holden concept was going to be a Kappa - and you know how once it's posted, it's fact...

...but in fact, when it was truly intro'd at the Syndey autoshow in all it's "Mangenta" glory, they (Holden nor GM) couldn't honestly claim it was anything other than neither 'vette nor kap, but "BASED UPON" similar architecture. Which means it had two hand-built representations of what would become hydroformed rails on a real production architecture. This was confirmed by all the insiders on both sites, who were adamant in many posts saying simply "once again: THIS IS NOT A KAPPA."

Hypothetically, back on subject, has anyone looked at cars where both a V6 and an I-4 (even if they are FWD) are offered, similarly equipped, to see what the "premium" is for a V6 over the I4?

The Z4 2.5 has a base invoice of 31,395. The Z4 3.0 (yep, it's an inline, but it was the only one that came quickly to mind) of 37,765 for a difference $5 g's and change. I don't know what a base 2.5 and a base 3.0 are different by content-wise, but if you can look at other cars where such an option is available on otherwise stripped condition, you'd be following something that most marketing divisions would follow - price to the market...

So here's one example of a $4-$5+ thousand premium on a fully built car. Any others anyone else can think of? The 3-series has a $5K premium too -at least that's what I recall (too lazy to check that one so I'm going with my misfiring brain cells - anyone else is more than welcome to check - but since I posted it, so must it be TRUE :lol: ).

HUH. Little strange, the lowest priced Vue is the FWD I4. The AWD I4 is +$4500, the FWD V6 is +$5500, and the AWD V6 is +$7300.

I'm thinking the "hypothetical V6 Kappa price" will be somewhere in the +$5000 range. Just my $.02 :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
faultline said:
You know, It will cost me over 3k to custom turbo this car. That is why I would rather pay for it from the factory. Even besides warrany issues, it is always easier to fit a cost into the payments, rather than come up with it later. More over , it is always cheaper anyways to have most power train option up front , instead of aftermarket. For example, A Quaife LSD is around 1300 right now, plus you have to pay for all the labor of dropping your tranny and cracking it open to put it in!. Yet, for most cars that offer one as an option, it is less than $300.00!!....
I really believe it will cost GM more to add a turbo, than put a v 6 in there!..the above spread shown by Brentil was 2800?? I am with Rickady, I will pay 22,800.00 for the v6 version :) ..all the probable S2000 buyers would surely tumble Gm's way :cool: ..I know its all been talked out, but I hope Rickady gets his way!!!
Funny you should mention the LSD :) That is another thing I looked into at the dealer. The rear end for a Caddy CTS (maybe the same as the KAPPA maybe not but it looks like it?) and they told me for the LSD CTS rear end is $1,000.

SM I have said for a while that I think the v6 "option" would bring in a $5,000 price tag. But to try to narrow it down to "realistic" estaments I tried to get hard prices. What I tried to do was find the price of the V6 and subtract the price of the I4 and the trannies they use but I could not find the 2.4. So there is no real way to find out yet :(
But one thing is for sure the price of the V6 is about $5,000. When we subtract the 2.4 from that it will narrow down the field.

GM does not have the 2.4 in any of their cars yet so we dont know where to start comparing?
GM does not offer the 3.6 High Value V6 in any other car that uses an I4 eather. So we dont have any relistic way to estamate the cost of the 2.4 or the "bare bones" V6 option. One reason the cost of other cars goes up with more powerfull engines is because they add a bunch of other "unneeded" upper class options weather you want them or not.
This would be a doable option even with the extra stuff being forced on us for the V6 upgrade. But would be a KILLER DEAL if we could just order the V6 only. That one idea is what the Solstice was born on. "Back to basics" Well to me that also means that if I only want a V6 then that is all I should get, and not a bunch of extra stuff that would make the car to expensive for me.

Now after seeing how "cheap" the 3.6 VVT V6 is compared to the 2.0SC I4 I am even more optomistic about the V6 "option" :cool:
 

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solsticeman said:
I'm thinking the "hypothetical V6 Kappa price" will be somewhere in the +$5000 range. Just my $.02 :)
I say more. Hypothetical series....Base 4=20k, boosted 4=25k, base 6=30k. Especially if a higher end division such as Caddy or Buick is doing it, heck they added $$$ to same car for the "upscale" Sky with same motor. Marketing 101 more power = more $$$.
 

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Just to think about this from the back end view of this.

Does GM have any V-6's configured for RWD. I think they only have trucks and SUV's that run V-6 RWD (or 4WD).

I know it shouldn't be a problem to put the V-6 in RWD config., but do they have a nice sporty tranny to bolt it to for RWD use.

I wouldn't want a nice strong V-6 in the Solstice, but have to shift it like a truck or SUV.

This would also increase the costs for a V-6, adaption of a good sporty tranny.
 

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piippor said:
Just to think about this from the back end view of this.

Does GM have any V-6's configured for RWD. I think they only have trucks and SUV's that run V-6 RWD (or 4WD).

I know it shouldn't be a problem to put the V-6 in RWD config., but do they have a nice sporty tranny to bolt it to for RWD use.

I wouldn't want a nice strong V-6 in the Solstice, but have to shift it like a truck or SUV.

This would also increase the costs for a V-6, adaption of a good sporty tranny.

Off the top of my head...the 2.8LVVT V6 and the 3.6LVVT V6 from the CTS (RWD)...both come standard with a 6-speed manual (auto is optional).

kris
 

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Those both look like nice options. The 3.6L in the STS only moves it to 60mph in 7 seconds. If you put that engine in the 1000lb smaller Solstice, what kinda times will you get then. :)
 

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mceb said:
I say more. Hypothetical series....Base 4=20k, boosted 4=25k, base 6=30k. Especially if a higher end division such as Caddy or Buick is doing it, heck they added $$$ to same car for the "upscale" Sky with same motor. Marketing 101 more power = more $$$.
The Sky actually has LESS power then the SOlstice too, and costs MORE. It's just unbalivable. It's going to have 170 HP and 162 ft-lbs instead of 177/166.
 

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Rickady88GT said:
Funny you should mention the LSD :) That is another thing I looked into at the dealer. The rear end for a Caddy CTS (maybe the same as the KAPPA maybe not but it looks like it?) and they told me for the LSD CTS rear end is $1,000.

...

Now after seeing how "cheap" the 3.6 VVT V6 is compared to the 2.0SC I4 I am even more optomistic about the V6 "option" :cool:
Was that the CTS-V they looked at or the normal CTS? Because I believe they're very different (not sure if the normal CTS even has a LSD because it doesn't mention it on the Cady site if I remember correctly), and the LSD we're supposedly sharing is the one from the CTS-V (rated for 400+ HP).

I think the 2.0L Supercharged engine price is actually more marketing smoke screen then it is price of the engine. Because it definetely does not cost the über company that GM is $2500+ to make a normal 2.2L into a 2.0L Supercharged engine. I know it has more things going for the engine then the Supercharger itself, but that's still ridiculous for a company with the buying power of GM's size. I really think the engine price has been greatly inflated to protect sales of the ION RL and Cobalt SS. Because really, if you think about it why buy a Cobalt SS for $22,000 when you could buy a normal coupe for $14,000 and a crate engine for $2500. However if they keep the price inflated it makes the price gap shrink a good bit, and helps it keep from threatening the SS/RL sales.
 
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