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Fformula88 said:
A/C not available? I cannot imagine they would do that on a modern day vehicle! Not unless they plan on making all of the first 1000 base model cars under $20K only, and not allowing any added options on them for some silly marketing reason to promote the base price. Even that would be far fetched.

far fetched, yes, but it may be the exact reasoning! think about it, they've been promoting that 19995 for a long time, even included destination, they may want a marketing statement. Who knows!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Makes some sense... unfortuately.

Well, I'll just wait... gives me more time to save up money for a downpayment... and learn how to drive a stick better.
 

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I agree with Solsticeman. GM is not that stupid. I can't imagine them releasing a vehicle of this importance with so many shortcomings, i.e. trunk, roof, and now A/C :agree:

Remember Pontiac is trying to change their image and the Solstice is a critical element, particularly since the GTO was such a flop.

The Apprentice promotion is meant to create a stir. I believe that much of this dealer misinformation is also an expected part of the marketing mix. In the end, GM would not draw all of this attention to a product release that would be so lame. Just imagine the fallout :brentil:
 

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This thread is ridiculous. Nobody is stupid enough to hype the first 1000 and then not offer A/C. A/C has been around F-O-R-E-V-E-R. It's not like there are any unknowns in making an A/C system that would be cause for further engineering. They've been doing it long enough they know how to manufacture a car with A/C from the get go. The 'District Manager' (I've never heard anyone at GM with that specific title as it relates to contacts with dealers. It goes Area->Zone->Region) probably didn't know what they were talking about. Most GM personell that are field contacts don't know anything about current, let alone future, products by GM. They don't work in a dealership and just aren't around the cars. Their concern is mostly with marketing rah-rah and trying to get dealers motivated to sell cars (as if it wasn't our job or something). They see the numbers and business aspects, not the product side.

So instead of helping you get your solstice, they wave you off with a stupid statement like "AC might not be available", or "These cars will have defects", or "these cars won't have a top", or "you can only get them in black (one of the colors that many customers won't buy)", or "you'll have to pay extra to get tires on these cars." Read into this - they may actually be saying "I can't make as much money on you because I can only charge you MSRP, so go buy it somewhere else."
This statement does not make sense. There isn't a dealer out there that wouldn't love to sell you a car at MSRP. A sale at MSRP or even under is infinitely better than no sale at all. It would make no sense to give up a profit of $1000 or so because you want to make more than that. The market is so intensly competitive right now many dealers are eating into their holdback in order to get the sale. The above statement holds no water.
 

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Usually, manufacturers make it difficult to get the no frills version of a car. The low price is to get you into the door, just like any other product. Then options are required to get you out the door.

If I were GM, I would be selling the first 1000 with ALL the options available, the first 1000 as going to be people that REALLY want the car and will pay anything to be the first on the block, no need to sell them $19,995 cars.
 

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eatoninside said:
This statement does not make sense. There isn't a dealer out there that wouldn't love to sell you a car at MSRP. A sale at MSRP or even under is infinitely better than no sale at all. It would make no sense to give up a profit of $1000 or so because you want to make more than that. The market is so intensly competitive right now many dealers are eating into their holdback in order to get the sale. The above statement holds no water.
AND there are dealers who enjoy long lasting relationships with return customers who will sell these customers anything they want, even a Solstice, SSR, GTO, C6, at somewhere less than MSRP day in and day out. When your immediate family is driving 3 or 4 vehicles from the same dealership and replace at least one every other year it carries a little extra weight.
 

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Usually, manufacturers make it difficult to get the no frills version of a car. The low price is to get you into the door, just like any other product. Then options are required to get you out the door.
If I were GM, I would be selling the first 1000 with ALL the options available, the first 1000 as going to be people that REALLY want the car and will pay anything to be the first on the block, no need to sell them $19,995 cars.
:agree: A lot bigger profit on a $25000 loaded Solstice than a $20000 stripper. And Mr Lutz has posted $19995 gets you a Solstice with delivery, 18" wheels, CD changer and AIR CONDITIONING. If the first cars don't have AC, it would put egg on his face he'd never get off. It would be the same as not meeting the price or any other part that statement.
 

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solsticeman said:
GM is not dumb - forcing a stripper car on customers who don't want a stripper car would be suicide.
I don't know if the first 1000 will have AC or not, but GM is dumb. How else would a company that once owned 1/2 the US market go to where they are now. They lose market share every single year. Their operations are failing all around the world. How does this happen? Lots of dumb little decisions. Lutz is boss, but their still making dumb decisions about products and marketing. Don't under estimate how dumb they can be.
 

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DreamerDave said:
:agree: A lot bigger profit on a $25000 loaded Solstice than a $20000 stripper. And Mr Lutz has posted $19995 gets you a Solstice with delivery, 18" wheels, CD changer and AIR CONDITIONING. If the first cars don't have AC, it would put egg on his face he'd never get off. It would be the same as not meeting the price or any other part that statement.
Actually from the fastlane blog Bob actually said the following;
That’s not for a stripped down model, either. That sub-$20,000 price gets you 177 horsepower mated to a five-speed manual transmission, 18-inch wheels, 4-wheel disc brakes, glass rear window, and a CD-player as standard equipment.
Unfortunately no mention of AC, it comes with heat standard though.
 

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Uh oh! My mistake. Now I'm a little worried (but just a tiny bit). I've already got two junker GM cars with no working AC and, with summers in Houston what they are, I'm not going to get a third. :(
 

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AeroDave said:
I don't know if the first 1000 will have AC or not, but GM is dumb. How else would a company that once owned 1/2 the US market go to where they are now. They lose market share every single year. Their operations are failing all around the world. How does this happen? Lots of dumb little decisions. Lutz is boss, but their still making dumb decisions about products and marketing. Don't under estimate how dumb they can be.
:agree: GM does make a lot of dumb decisions. Not that other companies are imune to it, GM has been doing it for a while and their market share slide continues. A lot of those dumb decisions have to do with marketing ruling the roost over engineering and design (atleast until Lutz came in). However, there have been a couple less than great decisions recently too. (Such as releasing the 2004 GTO in December and sending most of them to northern, snowy climates so they sat on lots a long time). I wouldn't put anything past them!
 

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brentil said:
Unfortunately no mention of AC, it comes with heat standard though.
AC is an extra cost option.
 

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eatoninside said:
solsticeman said:
So instead of helping you get your solstice, they wave you off with a stupid statement like "AC might not be available", or "These cars will have defects", or "these cars won't have a top", or "you can only get them in black (one of the colors that many customers won't buy)", or "you'll have to pay extra to get tires on these cars." Read into this - they may actually be saying "I can't make as much money on you because I can only charge you MSRP, so go buy it somewhere else."
This statement does not make sense. There isn't a dealer out there that wouldn't love to sell you a car at MSRP. A sale at MSRP or even under is infinitely better than no sale at all. It would make no sense to give up a profit of $1000 or so because you want to make more than that. The market is so intensly competitive right now many dealers are eating into their holdback in order to get the sale. The above statement holds no water.
Yet I've had two Chevrolet dealerships do EXACTLY THAT to try and discourage me from even looking at an SSR, and tried to move me to buy a Corvette. I heard:

"They've got problems with the top."
"These SSR's aren't as practical as it might seem"
"There's more room in a 'Vette :skep: "
"The Corvette has much more power"
"That SSR doesn't have enough engine in it"
"I could get you into a 'Vette for just a few thousand more"
"We only have two black SSR's. We have the Corvette in red, and it's the SAME red as the SSR"
"The trunk is much smaller than a pickup box (never mind that it's prolly 40 cubic feet!!!), and we've had a lot of problems with leaks..."
"We won't look at a dealer trade for an SSR in red."
"What? You don't really want to Order an SSR, they're gonna shut down the plant that makes them... "
"You'd look a lot better in this nice Corvette Convertible right here - let me get the keys, we'll go for a drive..."

BAH!

In the end I didn't buy one, but I found out through another of my contacts that the profit margin on SSR's is lower than the 'Vette, so the dealer has a much higher incentive to move 'vettes over SSR's.

One of the two dealers pulling this crap (I even talked to the Sales Manager at one of them) tried to get me to look at an AVALANCHE, for crimony's sake!!! Like a guy coming into a dealership wanting to look at convertibles has the Avalanche, of all vehicles, even in a remote corner of his mind.

I think you can see where I could imagine this exact thing happening with a low-dealer profit vehicle, especially if they have a lot-full of higher profit margin vehicles.
 

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We'' probably see the same type of bait and switch with the Solstice. There will be dealers who just won't care about selling them and instead will attempt to move you into something else with more profit margin. Two things are true:
1. It costs more to add a ton of options to a car than to build a car with most options standard. That's why it is generally lower MSRP for a package than for individual options.
2. There is more margin in the car that is optioned up to the level of the packaged car.

Now, which one do the dealers want to sell you?

BTW, when I was checking red paint codes by touchup # the SSR is slightly different than the 'vette, sunfire AND solstice.
 

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solsticeman said:
Yet I've had two Chevrolet dealerships do EXACTLY THAT to try and discourage me from even looking at an SSR, and tried to move me to buy a Corvette. I heard:

"They've got problems with the top."
"These SSR's aren't as practical as it might seem"
"There's more room in a 'Vette :skep: "
"The Corvette has much more power"
"That SSR doesn't have enough engine in it"
"I could get you into a 'Vette for just a few thousand more"
"We only have two black SSR's. We have the Corvette in red, and it's the SAME red as the SSR"
"The trunk is much smaller than a pickup box (never mind that it's prolly 40 cubic feet!!!), and we've had a lot of problems with leaks..."
"We won't look at a dealer trade for an SSR in red."
"What? You don't really want to Order an SSR, they're gonna shut down the plant that makes them... "
"You'd look a lot better in this nice Corvette Convertible right here - let me get the keys, we'll go for a drive..."

BAH!

In the end I didn't buy one, but I found out through another of my contacts that the profit margin on SSR's is lower than the 'Vette, so the dealer has a much higher incentive to move 'vettes over SSR's.

One of the two dealers pulling this crap (I even talked to the Sales Manager at one of them) tried to get me to look at an AVALANCHE, for crimony's sake!!! Like a guy coming into a dealership wanting to look at convertibles has the Avalanche, of all vehicles, even in a remote corner of his mind.

I think you can see where I could imagine this exact thing happening with a low-dealer profit vehicle, especially if they have a lot-full of higher profit margin vehicles.
That's stupid for that dealer to try and sell you what you didn't want. However, what I was referring to and what I thought your original post was about was selling you a Solstice vs. selling you nothing. That wouldn't make sense. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to sell a customer what they wanted.
 

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eatoninside said:
That's stupid for that dealer to try and sell you what you didn't want. However, what I was referring to and what I thought your original post was about was selling you a Solstice vs. selling you nothing. That wouldn't make sense. I can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to sell a customer what they wanted.
It's all about selling what is due. First in, first out. Okay boys, they just cancelled the Bonneville and Sunfire. We've got 1 Bonne in stock and none on the way, and we've got 10 Sunfires and 4 more coming. Nobody leaves our store today without at least a test drive in a Sunfire. :willy:
 

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achieftain has part of it...

eatoninside, aren't you a dealer? If there's a hot car coming and the marketing division tells you "your allocation of this new hot car is based on how many of the old cavaliers you move off your lot", you're gonna want to move said car.

I'm sorry, I got confused - these first 1000 are NOT part of a dealer's allocation, are they?

My previous post was under the assumption that the "apprentice" cars would be part of the normal allocation. If you've got an allocation for 7 cars, and I tell you five of them MUST be sold at MSRP, and you know you can get a $3500 - $5000 premium gouge (not all dealers think this way, but I bet there's more that do then we're all willing to admit) for one of the normal allocation, in the shortsighted term, might it not make sense to go for the extra $25,000 in pure revenue? Bypass the rigoramole of the apprentice thing all together, get your allocations as soon as you can and sell them to the highest bidder or in e-bay?

By now, most of the dealers know, at least for the first year, there will be more customers to buy than cars. And economics = "what the market will bear..." If your customer won't pay what you want and think you should get, there's four others on your list that might... There's people putting $1000 down on a car they haven't even SAT in or seen how the top works yet. Now, shortsighted as it may be, that's definitely an indication of DEMAND.

But, remember when everyone started putting money down on the GTO's? Or the SSR's? And paying premium to dealers for their vehicle? Just ask yourself where the sales of these two "niche" vehicles are today...
 

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Avialable Options you are all wondering about

This is an actual response from Pontiac Division, as in response to my original question to them:

Air conditioning will be available for the Solstice early order program.
The only constrained items are the automatic transmission and chrome
wheels.

The deadline for enrollment in the Solstice early order program was
March 15. Enrolled dealers will receive complete details and
instructions, including the dedicated Early Order Program web address,
after you enroll (no exact date given). On April 15 at 2 p.m. EST,
enrolled dealers may log on to a secure website to process customer
orders.

If your dealer argues, I can forward this on.

:cheers:
 

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Good news in that response is that at some point there will be an automatic transmission. I know it sounds dumb in this kind of car but there are some buyers out there who will actually wait for the auto.

edit: Funny thing is neither the auto or chrome wheels have an RPO yet so why constrain something that doesn't yet exist.
 
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