Pontiac Solstice Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

I’ve been lurking here for months as I have been doing research on the Solstice. I really love the design and lines. I owned a 1966 Triumph Spitfire years ago and absolutely loved it and have been missing it ever since I sold it 15 years ago. Driving a two seat roadster low to the ground was absolutely my favorite driving experience in my 35 years of driving. This car delivers that feeling for me again with the perk of modern luxuries. It really has given me that great feeling again. Ive read a lot about the 2.4L being under powered. Yeah, but I had tons of fun in the Triumph and that car barely made up the hill to my home. That said I’d really like a bit more throttle response. The responses on tunes I’ve seen here are from years ago. Are there still tunes available that will help this without changing out physical parts?. I’m not looking to go crazy, just a bit more fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Hello,

I’ve been lurking here for months as I have been doing research on the Solstice. I really love the design and lines. I owned a 1966 Triumph Spitfire years ago and absolutely loved it and have been missing it ever since I sold it 15 years ago. Driving a two seat roadster low to the ground was absolutely my favorite driving experience in my 35 years of driving. This car delivers that feeling for me again with the perk of modern luxuries. It really has given me that great feeling again. Ive read a lot about the 2.4L being under powered. Yeah, but I had tons of fun in the Triumph and that car barely made up the hill to my home. That said I’d really like a bit more throttle response. The responses on tunes I’ve seen here are from years ago. Are there still tunes available that will help this without changing out physical parts?. I’m not looking to go crazy, just a bit more fun.
Sorry, I forgot to say to say that I just purchased a 2007 convertible 2.4 two weeks ago and I love it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
from my understanding doing a tune on the 2.4 will improve the throttle response. and give it a little more "pep". it doesn't add an HP or anything like that I believe that the torque being limited at low speeds is what gets disabled or altered..

II do not know to much about the 2.4 tunes, there are plenty of people in here that have had them done and have stated that it does take care of throttle response issues.


Welcome to the Forum..
Kevin
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
565 Posts
Welcome to the forum... others with the 2.4 have used the Sprint Booster to wake-up throttle response.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,028 Posts
Welcome to the forum... others with the 2.4 have used the Sprint Booster to wake-up throttle response.
The Sprint Booster gives the illusion of better throttle response, but some well-documented testing has shown that the actual effect is pretty much zero.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
565 Posts
The Sprint Booster gives the illusion of better throttle response, but some well-documented testing has shown that the actual effect is pretty much zero.
That illusion changed the way my modified and tuned GXP drives... for the better. It works even better on automatics, several in my Kappa club are also enjoying the illusion. I guess the can of worms has been opened again...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,028 Posts
That illusion changed the way my modified and tuned GXP drives... for the better. It works even better on automatics, several in my Kappa club are also enjoying the illusion. I guess the can of worms has been opened again...
Its not really a can of worms as long as you are aware that it is an illusion, and that you are not actually getting better performance. If changing the "feel" of the acceleration is worth what it costs, you have made a good purchase.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
565 Posts
Its not really a can of worms as long as you are aware that it is an illusion, and that you are not actually getting better performance. If changing the "feel" of the acceleration is worth what it costs, you have made a good purchase.
Just a simple question JohnWR... have you ever had one installed in your Kappa?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,585 Posts
Regardless of whether John had one installed or not, by design the device simply increases the rate which the throttle opens making it feel like you're getting a better response. For example, what used to take a half pressed throttle position is now achieved at a quarter pressed throttle position. The device simply replicates what the driver could do through foot position.

As for the "tune" on a 2.4, the generally consensus is that it adds perhaps a couple of horsepower at most and achieves what the Sprint Booster does - opens up the throttle more at earlier pedal positions (removes the "nanny" that gradually opens the throttle as you press down.)

Welcome to the club - enjoy your ride!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Hello,

I’ve been lurking here for months as I have been doing research on the Solstice. I really love the design and lines. I owned a 1966 Triumph Spitfire years ago and absolutely loved it and have been missing it ever since I sold it 15 years ago. Driving a two seat roadster low to the ground was absolutely my favorite driving experience in my 35 years of driving. This car delivers that feeling for me again with the perk of modern luxuries. It really has given me that great feeling again. Ive read a lot about the 2.4L being under powered. Yeah, but I had tons of fun in the Triumph and that car barely made up the hill to my home. That said I’d really like a bit more throttle response. The responses on tunes I’ve seen here are from years ago. Are there still tunes available that will help this without changing out physical parts?. I’m not looking to go crazy, just a bit more fun.
Regardless of whether John had one installed or not, by design the device simply increases the rate which the throttle opens making it feel like you're getting a better response. For example, what used to take a half pressed throttle position is now achieved at a quarter pressed throttle position. The device simply replicates what the driver could do through foot position.

As for the "tune" on a 2.4, the generally consensus is that it adds perhaps a couple of horsepower at most and achieves what the Sprint Booster does - opens up the throttle more at earlier pedal positions (removes the "nanny" that gradually opens the throttle as you press down.)

Welcome to the club - enjoy your ride!
Welcome, great bunch of people here. I am also pretty new and love my Solstice!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,028 Posts
Just a simple question JohnWR... have you ever had one installed in your Kappa?
I have not, but I don't have to have one to understand what it does, and what it doesn't, or rather can't do. I have read a couple of very comprehensive reviews of them, and what @chickenwire said is quite correct, they simply amp-up the throttle signal, giving you the feeling of more quickness at part throttle. One you get anywhere close to WOT, the effect goes away completely, since there is no room for them to do anything: 100% is 100%, and isn't going to go any higher.

As I said, if you like the feeling, and it is worth the price to you, then it is a good deal.

I do have a little bit of concern that a third-party device is between the throttle pedal and the engine and i do not know how well it is designed. If it doesn't have fail-safe circuitry it could, theoretically at least, command full throttle when I really don't want it to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
Oh hell no, you would never catch me installing one of those Sprint Booster things.

Do you realize how that thing works? It does not directly change the speed in which the ECM opens up the throttle. nothing like that.

So if you step on the accelerator and put the pedal down to 25%, this thing tells the ECM that you have it pressed down to 50% and then after a pre determined amount of time it will back down to 25%.

This thing has got to kill your gas mileage for one. For 2 it really doesn't know what the ECM is doing with the throttle so it is operating blindly It should be monitoring the CAN traffic to see what the ECM is doing with the throttle.

That thing is a ball of stupid attached to the gas pedal in a car. does anyone know how it handles bad data coming from the accelerator pedal? what does it tell the ECM in those cases? I would need a whole heap of information before I would even consider putting that thing in my car. It would have to have redundant systems to ensure that it's giving the right information, and it would also need to be checking what the ECM is doing. I can tell you this much. It is not checking anything.

The speed in which the throttle actuates is done to "smooth" out fluctuations from the drivers foot. this improves the fuel mileage. If there is too much smoothing being done it is going to create a lag. This needs to be fixed in the programming of the ECM not by feeding in large offset factors in order to bypass the smoothing.

FYI.. This thing will never change the response when going WOT. in fact that amount of throttle response it adds decreases the harder you push the pedal down yourself.


so if you smooth 20 input values.. so say you have 25 in all 20 values. the average is going to be 25 now you replace one of this values with a 30 what happens?? you get 25.25 so the car makes an adjustment of 0.25. that is a mall change considering you added 5 to the value. at that rate it is not going to make the entire change until after 20 reads of the same value.

so that device instead of passing the 30 in it doubles it to 60. so now there is a change of 1.75 each reading. so the throttle is going to move quicker. But what happens when you let off the accelerator fast and drop down to say 20 from the 30?? you are going to have the reverse of throttle response is what. you are going to have lag when releasing the pedal.. NOT GOOD. that box is going to tell the ECM a value of 40 which is higher then 26.75 so the ECM is going to continue to open the throttle more even tho you have let off the accelerator.. HOLY COW is that dangerous....

The proper way is to reprogram the ECM and make the sampling pool smaller. to say 10.. that is going to double the throttle response as well as the throttle release.

That kind of a device is bad on a level that is just bonkers. It can cause what would be considered a "stuck" accelerator pedal condition where the car continues to accelerate via opening the throttle after it has been instructed not to do so. milliseconds matter, it could be the difference between life or death..

Sorry NO way in hell, I would pass on that kind of a gizmo. It is unsafe and there is no way to make it safe. It shouldn't even be allowed to be sold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
I did also want to mention that drive by wire was just becoming common place in vehicles around when the solstice was made. The cars ECM's were not as fast as they should have been in order to give a real time throttle response. it takes time for the ECM to collect the data and chrunch the numbers and to tell the ECM what to do. and that makes a device like that even more dangerous, because the ECM is not going to respond to radical changes in real time. on newer vehicles the ECM's are way faster and the throttle response problems have been solved, the ECM is able to collect the reading from the accelerator pedal and make changes to the throttle independently of each other. ECM's from the early and mid 2000's only did one thing at a time, they ran in a defined loop always doing the same things over and over again. The ECM's now dynamically do things based on input data. so multiple sensors can be read at the same time while making changes to what the engine is doing. It's called multi-core processing.


input data into the ECM for something like throttle should not be screwed with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for all of your responses. I think I’ll do more research. Sounds like tuning the ecm might be a safer way to go. I’ll take it up in a more appropriate thread.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
865 Posts
It's funny that people call the throttle response problem a nanny... a nanny is what the traction control is or the stability control. It is a system that help you drive the car. kind of like a Nanny helps a child wipe it's ass. LOL..

There is a system in place on the GXP's that will limit the torque output from the engine in 1st and I believe a good portion of second gear. IDK if this exists on the N/A also. I do not believe it does because of the greatly reduced power the engine can produce. That system is there to reduce the amount of damage that will occur to the transmission and the differential. This is not what causes the throttle response problem but it does cause the car to launch like a snail.

All drive by wire vehicles have a smoothing algorithm for the accelerator. It is there to give you better gas mileage. you can thank the EPA for this nice treat.. Because the EPA put deadlines into place for passenger vehicles and the fuel efficiency they need to achieve by specific dates manufacturers are doing everything but making the engines more fuel efficient. This is one of those things. by smoothing the accelerator pedal position it will add a couple of points to the MPG rating on the vehicle. All manufacturers are making the vehicles lighter and also with thinner metal. Less weight = higher gas mileage. This is another reason why turbos and super chargers are seen on just about every vehicle made. because the engine output can be 90HP when cruising along and be 200 when wanting to get up and go. when cruising and not boosting the engine that 90HP is going to give a really high MPG.... again this really has not made the engine more fuel efficient. It's a way too circumvent the EPA's fuel efficiency. I can't say that I know anyone that would run out and buy a 3 cylinder engine vehicle and be like YAY!!!.... It is being purchased to fill a need and not a want. I don't believe anyone actually wants a vehicle that can't get out of it's own way.

The smoothing completely removes the response that you got from the mechanical throttle from days of old. I have not seen any way to turn it off even with an ECM reprogram. I think it is a lower level function of the ECM, probably in the OS and may not be able to be changed like a fuel mapping can.

Even if it could be completely disabled on older vehicles like the Solstice the ECM is simply not going to have enough processing power to get you to a real time throttle response. When vehicle manufacturers select the processors for the ECM's they don't select one that is going to have much in the way of unused processor time. They are going to use the cheapest thing they can buy that is going to just barely be able to do the job. Just like a cable company does when they pick the cable boxes they charge for and force people to use.

I am going to ask HP Tuners about the smoothing, there is a possibility that the ECM smoothing the accelerator data hasn't been brought up or even thought of as a cause for throttle response problems. It might be something they are able to isolate in the ECM and offer a tuning function for. I am sure there is going to be a limit to what can be done. that limit is going to be set by 2 things. The speed of the processor in the ECM and also how fast the servo in the throttle body is able to move. I would be surprised if they are using a direct drive servo setup in the throttle bodies. I say this because the cost of a high precision servo costs more then what most throttle bodies cost. By using gear reduction and a 360 degree stepping servo this would greatly reduce the cost, it also reduces the speed in which the butterfly is going to be able to move.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
16,599 Posts
Welcome. There are tunes for your car that have been well received. They don’t increase power but can change power delivery somewhat. There are a lot of threads on increasing power and they end up concluding that installing boost is the only visble path to more power. There are several turbo kits that will have a huge impact. But it does not sound like that is attractive to you. Enjoy the car. They are a lot of fun
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I mostly enjoy the car for the way it feels on the road and want to drive it with the top down. I live in the Pacific NW so I’ll have to wait a bit for that. I’d like more power, but I’m not willing to put the car in jeopardy for it. Thanks for all of the advice, it’s helped me make the decision to keep it as is for now and just have fun driving it. I’ll take care of it and wait until I reach 100,000 miles or more then go radical as I can with a turbo or supercharger and a rebuild, exhaust, headers, etc.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
28 Posts
Welcome I too loved my British cars.Simple to work on?The Solstice is a fun car.I still have a MGB I bought new 1971.No where near as reliable as now.Do enjoy your Solstice don't worry about power we had lots of fun with a lot less.I will say my GXP is fast enough and the heater works. LOL Bob
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top