Means this Aussie Kappa is a testing vehicle. If it's universally and overwhelmingly accepted (as I'm sure the Holden folks are thinking) then we might see it pushed into production. Make no mistake, this would have to be a new, ground up vehicle, not just a "tweak" of the Solstice/SatKap.Mr Lutz agreed the concept could form the basis for a new medium rearwheel
drive architecture that Holden would develop for the GM world, along the
same lines as the Zeta large and long wheelbase architecture.
“Of course it could,” he said. “Almost anything Holden does has potential
international applicability because they work it that way.
“And yes, if that thing really touches a nerve at the Sydney show and gets a
lot of international attention, and we get a lot of people saying ‘oh why don’t you
do that’, then we’ll take a look at it.
I guess I'm confused. The artical said:solsticeman said:I'm willing to bet there's nothing in common with a true Kappa other than maybe a hydroformed rail or panel somewhere. I'm even willing to bet that the Aussie Kappa has about as much in common with the Solstice as the Solstice does with the Corvette C6. It's got wheels, maybe an SLA front and rear suspension, lower dominant structure, and they are calling it "THEIR" kappa.
IF this goes anywhere, it will be known as either a variation of a Kappa (Kappa Stretch? Kappa LWB? Kappa 6?), or it will be called the next available greek letter as an evolution off the Kappa.
and so I thought that to mean that Holden was designing something for the Aussie home market and international market that would be built on the Kappa chassis in DE. It doesn't seem to make sense for them to set up production of limited amounts of Kappas in their country when there is plenty of capacity here. Maybe the labor's cheaper there I don't know. Anyhow I thought the artical came to the same conclusion when it said:The concept will sit on GM’s low-volume rear-wheel drive Kappa architecture,
which has so far yielded one production model, the Pontiac Solstice.
This in itself is a signifi cant advertisement for Holden’s engineering skill
because up until this point Kappa had only been used for left-hand drive fourcylinder
vehicles such as the Pontiac Solstice roadster.
. Given this, I would think that their concept would have lots in common with the Solstice Kappa. Maybe they'll stretch it a little, and make room for a V6, but essentialy I would expect a Kappa just like everybody else. I could be totaly wrong though, cuz I'm no GM insider that's for sure. Like I said I'm confused about this Holden Kappa. Are there any pictures of it yet?Even if it ran an engineering program for a production
version of the concept, Holden would almost
certainly not build such a car itself because it has its
hands full preparing the Elizabeth assembly plant for
the arrival of the Zeta-based VE Commodore in 2006.
Currently, all Kappa-based production comes out of
GM’s Wilmington, Delaware, plant.
I'm willing to bet there's nothing in common with a true Kappa other than maybe a hydroformed rail or panel somewhere. I'm even willing to bet that the Aussie Kappa has about as much in common with the Solstice as the Solstice does with the Corvette C6. It's got wheels, maybe an SLA front and rear suspension, lower dominant structure, and they are calling it "THEIR" kappa.
Until we actualy see a production Kappa nobody knows for sure, but I would guess that GM planned for possibilities like RHD, 2+2 and V6's from the start with this platform. Wasn't the Lightning a RHD concept? Didn't the Nomad have a back seat? and V6's seem to pop up in unlikely places when it's needed. When I saw the first Fiero, I couldn't see where they were going to put a V6, but somehow it went in. V6's really aren't that much bigger than a I4, particularly if the four banger is boosted, but I agree that, if the Kappa chassis is built so that a I4 is a snug fit, then they have thier work cut out.solsticeman said:AeroDave,
It is absolutely no small feat to change a vehicle not intended for RHD to such. Packaging is one of the main challenges for the Solstice, and probably one of the major reasons you haven't heard of a Right Hooker (as the British call it) version of a Kappa.
-Squeeze in a TT V6
-Transform it to a RHD
-Stretch the wheelbase
-Add two seats
is such a big change that it's practically a new platform.
The Nomad, curve, lightning, were all concepts based on the kappa architecture. They were of limited capability, and built for show over functionality. They only have a bit more relationship to the Solstice as the original concept actually did to the "Delta" platform it was supposedly based upon.LUTZ said:...back to basics roadster...
Maybe this is why the Solstice weighs as much as 2860, the Kappa platform is V6 ready. I don't know, I'm not suggesting that I wish the Solstice to be anything other than what Bob promised, I too don't care about a V6, but it would seem foolish for GM to invest in this platform and put it up in the Wilmington plant, only to sell on a good year maybe about 50k units between all the divisions. How many 2 seat, 4 cylinder sportscars can a company sell? It makes good business sense for them to plan for variations.solsticeman said:Or, the Solstice is severely sub-optimized. If the weight comes in more than 2860 lbs, then that's the price they paid to plan for V6. Or they hid the tradeoff in loss of structure.
I'd rather hope they did not sacrifice either weight or structure, and just plan for the Solstice around a single, known, I-4 engine architecture.
AD,AeroDave said:Maybe this is why the Solstice weighs as much as 2860, the Kappa platform is V6 ready....
I just have a suspicion that the Kappa platform is designed to be V6 capable, and that the Solstice is being released as a 4 to keep costs down. I'm not really saying that the Solstice will someday be offered with a six, just that the platfrom can take a six, and someday some division will use it that way. I also think RHD and a 2+2 is a strong possibility. :cheerssolsticeman said:As a matter of fact, the Z4 actually weighs about 90 lbs more than it really should, given it's size (track and wheelbase).
Wait a minute! OH MY GOSH! They built their car around an Inline 6 BUT they also offer a I4.
There you go - nobody gets nuthin for free. :smile
Yeah, if GM plans to go upscale with a Kappa in either Cadillac, Buick or Saturn, they will need a bigger engine. I'm sure given Mr. Lutz's desire to compete with imports, they have forseen this need. Wanting to keep program costs down, seems unlikely they will start up a new 2 seat platform to fit between Kappa and Corvette/XLR. More likely Kappa is V6 ready. For everyone who says "I'd rather have a boosted 4." Think of the possibilities of a boosted 6! Anyhow there would be handling issues, but I still think they may have that under control.brentil said:Well if it was planned for there to be a Cady Kappa from the beginning then more then likely it would be designed to house a V6/i6. Because really, how many i4 Cadys are there available right now? Zero. The smallest engine in a Cady available right now is the 255 HP 3.6L V6 VVT.