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Looking at upgrading the speakers

8K views 67 replies 10 participants last post by  The_Ghost 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm finally giving my baby some much needed "stuff". It's great when you don't have to go into work and you can save an extra $400/week because you don't go out to eat anymore, not too mention the extra $80 in gas.... So, since I've saved this money for the last 18 weeks and I have some time, it's time to do some upgrades on my baby.

Now that the rims and tires are ordered and on their way soon, it's time for the stereo. I've been reading old threads and looking for some new speakers first. The headunit will come in the next few months. (Or maybe I have this backwards...maybe I should get a new receiver first? That's why I'm posting this.) So I'm wondering if these will fit my Monsoon system? Eventually I will get another monsoon box to put behind the driver's seat....or may build an enclosure over the winter for the trunk...not sure yet...depends on job situation. Here are the speakers I'm looking at...any advice, thoughts, recommendations are appreciated.

Subwoofer:
Pioneer TS-A2000LD2

Door Speakers:
JBL 631 Concert Series 6-1/2" 3-way car speakers

A-pillar speakers:
Alpine S-S10TW S-Series 1" silk dome tweeters

Again, any advice is appreciated.
 
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#2 ·
Did my head unit first. Have the monsoon speaker system. Noticed an improvement with it. Went from good to good+. A few months later I decided to do the door speakers. Went from good to excellent. That is all I needed to do.
My new Avatar and soon to be Splash Screen plus Door...
 
#3 ·
I would suggest you get component speakers (2-way woofer/mid and tweeter w/crossover). Though this will force you to rewire the speaker connections, you probably want to do that anyway, since the stock wiring is so cheap-assed. I got Alpine Type-R SPR-17S for mine which I'm very happy with, but that was 10 years ago, so there may be better for the price now. I was able (with a small amount of Dremel'ing) to fit the tweeters into the stock tweeter mount/clips so the pillars look stock. Plus, I mounted the crossover blocks up under the dash at both sides.

Again, just a suggestion.
 
#5 ·
Thanks everyone.... I'm new to the whole stereo components. I had a sub added to my Mustang for a bit more bump, nothing obnoxious, although it could have been had I turned the base up and that was on the Mach system. A friend did it for me. The last thing I did anything to a stereo myself in was my '84 Fiero. Replaced it all, 2 days later the car became possessed and left me stranded on the side of the road. It was the fusable link. Had a shop go through my stereo I just did and they rewired everything...incorrectly. My stereo was hooked up to my parking lights, so when I turned on my headlights, there was a HUGE flash under the dash from the inline fuse and it blew out my headlights and stereo. So I had to redo everything they did. Then 2 months after that the possession came back. After I sold it with the "electrical" gremlin, I found out from a friend that the diode in the alternator went bad and was reversing the current. After that I really never touched another car stereo. So if I chose to do this, it could be baptism by fire quickly. I plan on changing the leather out on my door panels because it has really bubbled this year, to a white boat vinyl...and figured that I should go ahead and change the door speakers and A-pillar speakers while I was at it.... And maybe the sub...
 
#4 ·
I went through a similar pursuit. I decided to buy the best 6.5 speakers I could, best 10 inch shallow sub, and best bluetooth amp. So I don’t use my head unit at all, and from the outside it doesn’t look like a have an upgraded system. I absolutely love the results. Nothing like going 80mph and hearing your songs crystal clear. I could give a hs football stadium a concert at max volume
 
#6 ·
I went with Focal ISC 165- integration 61/2 in coax speakers also put in Dynamat 1045-10"x10"x0.067" thick self adhesive sound deadener xtreme speaker kit. So far i do like the sound they put out. Good luck with your search Ghost & let us know after your install how it sounds.
 
#7 ·
It should be noted that the specs given to car audio are way out of whack. The standard way of noting the bass ability of any driver is where it is 3 dB down in output - in other words what frequency matches where the output of the driver i 1/2 what it was. Car speakers pay little attention, making t almost impossible to assess performance accurately. Take a look at that Pioneer sub that Ghost cited. Look up the instructions for the speaker. The 20 Hz figure isn't 3 dB down it is 20 dB down (every 3 dB is a doubling of sound output, so at 20 Hz there is probably almost no detectable output. from those drivers).

The easiest path to improvement in car audio IS usually the speakers as the stock drivers used cost a small faction of what a decent driver does, but watch out for misleading specs etc. BTW, the 3 dB down point on most so called subwoofer doesn't get you anywhere near what a true sub does; they are really nothing but a woofer that bumps low bass (NOT sub bass) a bit. There is more bullcrap printed and talked in car audio than in anything else I can think of off hand.

For those wanting to upgrade, I suggest that you look at threads where people did this and what their conclusions were about what they had done. You can avoid doing things that don't work and find relatively inexpensive driver swaps that do work.

PS - FYI, 20 Hz is about as low as you can actually hear a musical note - below that you feel it.
 
#8 ·
I'm with TS; you should definitely consider components. Morel makes a nice 6.5 inch 2-way component set that's reasonably priced. If you're looking for higher end, you should consider Focal components.
For the sub, you'll need a shallow mount for sure. If you don't mind doing a little customization, you can fit up to a 12 inch shallow mount sub in the stock enclosure. To me, this makes much more sense than a trunk mounted enclosure.
As far as making everything work with your Monsoon system, I'm not sure how you'd go about that. I just took out everything Monsoon related and stored it in my garage.
As far as headunits go, look at name brands with the features you want (wireless Carplay/ Android Auto, screen mirroring, rear camera input, etc). Alpine, Kenwood, JVC and Pioneer typically make good head units.

Check out the Audio mods section for ideas.
 
#14 ·
Check out the Audio mods section for ideas.
I would if 95% of it wasn't 10+ years old. Things change rapidly in audio.
 
#9 ·
One thing to keep in mind - if you just upgrade the speakers, the sound improves and the appearance stays the same - no one knows it isn't stock. The minute you plug in a new head unit, it becomes like catnip to thieves and the chances of break-ins just skyrocketed.
 
#12 ·
Double-DIN touch screens are pretty much universal in everything from GM (and just about everyone else) these days. I think that most thieves don't even look at them any more.
 
#11 ·
My favourite anti-theft exercise was on one of my 1970s Jensen Interceptors. They came with Lear Jet 8 track units (IIRC a double DIN size). I just carefully sawed off the front of a non-working 8 track player and hinged it with a magnetic catch. I mounted a modern cassette deck with remote mount CD player in the trunk, and had a stealth set up no thief would think twice about.
 
#17 ·
Cool thanks. I was going to put another sub enclosure behind the drivers seat, so I would like to run 2 amps. One for the subs and one for the other 6 speakers, unless I can get an 8 channel amp. I found one but it didn't push more then 100watts. So a bit weak. Now I don't always ride with my stereo turned up, but there are those times.....
 
#18 ·
You wouldn't need an 8 channel amp (or even 8 channels of amplification) if you used components in the front with passive crossovers.
  • front component speaker (left and right)= 2 channels
  • rears= 2
  • passenger sub, driver sub= 2
So at the most you'd need 6.
Alternatively, you could power the rears with built in amplification from your head unit which would then mean you'd only need 4 channels.
Or, use (2) 4 ohm subs wired in parallel for a 2 ohm load, and run from 1 sub channel from the amp, in which case you'd only need 3 channels.
Lots of different ways to do this.
 
#19 ·
How much wiring is involved in wiring in crossovers for the doors and a-pillars? Is it worth it? And would I need an amp for the door speakers if they're rated for 80watts if I planned on using....say 40 watts?
 
#20 ·
Your amp will attach to positive and negative inputs on each crossover, then the crossover will have outputs for your midbass and tweeter. The only (fairly) difficult part about this is running wires through the rubber boot in the door. It's been a while since I did my install, but IIRC, from the door boot, the wires have to go into the engine compartment, then through the firewall, then under the dash and up to the A pillars. Sounds harder than it is.
To me, it was definitely worth it. My system sounds infinitely better than the stock Monsoon system.
As far as the door speakers go, well technically, yes, they need to be amplified, either with a separate amp, or the amp built into the receiver you end up going with. I know that many headunits advertise something like 40 wpc, but that's max at high levels of distortion. For real power, you'll have to go with a separate amp. But if you're talking about powering door speakers rated at 80 watts with a separate amp putting out 40 wpc RMS, then no, that's not a problem at all. The other way around would be though (sending 80 wpc to speakers rated at 40 watts per channel.)
 
#25 ·
Your amp will attach to positive and negative inputs on each crossover, then the crossover will have outputs for your midbass and tweeter. The only (fairly) difficult part about this is running wires through the rubber boot in the door. It's been a while since I did my install, but IIRC, from the door boot, the wires have to go into the engine compartment, then through the firewall, then under the dash and up to the A pillars. Sounds harder than it is.
To me, it was definitely worth it. My system sounds infinitely better than the stock Monsoon system.
What he said^

Additionally: the car-to-door 'concertina' boot is a right-angle S-shape. The way to thread the wires through is to detach the car end and stretch it out (nearly) straight. Then reattach the end afterward.

As an aside, for amplifier watts, most head units work on 12V and so are rated at 'peak' watts (that's why you usually see them all say 40 watts - though even THAT is a stretch). Better amps include a voltage booster/inverter so that they can push more watts, but head amps generally don't have enough space for that.
 
#21 ·
So here's the other deal. I have $3000 in wheels and tires coming. My car is worth, at best a COVID $9500. Without the current situation, $7500. I have 80k on the clock. I don't want to spend $1000 on speakers and another $1000 on a sub and amps and another $1000 for a headunit. I'll have over 3/4 the value of the car in audio and wheels. I thought I could get away with $250 (the front 4 speakers) in speakers, $300 for a sub and amp and $400 for a headunit. And maybe down the road, add another sub behind the driver. Even if I would need another/different amp then. Am I wrong? I'm just tired of pushing my stereo to 90% when I'm doing 75mph to hear it. I do like the idea of keeping my headunit for now, but getting a better sound....or should I do headunit first then speakers, seeing as how it appears that I would need an amp to run most "better" speakers.
 
#22 ·
Most comments have been that the head unit is the weakest point, and that the speakers and amp are okay.

You can't look at car mods as a cost/value equation. Car mods are a cost/enjoyment equation and you have to assume that you will not get any of the expense back unless you can remove the mods and sell them separately.
 
#23 ·
Youre right John. I just wasn't thinking when I made that statement. I actually found another post after I stated this and went through all of the parts and costs and it was only about $1500, so I feel much better now. The biggest cost on his list was the amp, but I think I can find one just as good for half of the cost. I'm just lining projects up for the fall now that I have nothing but time and my car needs some TLC.
 
#24 ·
Here's another option for you:

With this amp/dsp, you won't need to change your head unit out at all. You can stream via bluetooth directly from your phone to the amp. Also, because this amp has built in dsp, you won't need to find a place to mount passive crossovers for your component set. Looks like the amp gives you the ability to EQ each speaker separately. The amp has plenty of power for all of your speakers, and you could easily add another sub down the line and wire it in parallel with your other sub for a 2 ohm load. You'd lose rear speakers if you power the tweeters and door speakers separately (using the amps active crossovers, but if you use the passive crossovers from a component set, you'd be able to use the rear speakers as well.
Then all you'd need is a replacement sub and a component speaker set. Easily under 1k.

components: Morel Maximo Ultra 602 Maximo Ultra Series 6-1/2" component speaker system at Crutchfield

shallow sub:

I think if you go with a larger sub and make minor modifications to the monsoon box, you'll find that you really don't need a second sub.
 
#26 ·
So, another dumb question. Would the stereo sound better with another 5 1/4" or 6" speaker in place of the 3" and move the 3" over to the center on both sides? Or is that just overkill? I mean, kwill put 6 tweeters in his car....so it got me to wondering.
 
#27 · (Edited)
I only have 2 tweeters, not six. My front soundstage is a 3-way active system, with 2 midbass, 2 midrange, and 2 tweeters. The rear is midrange only, and the only reason I installed rears was for rear fill. But I wouldn't recommend this unless you are actually going to process the rear (time delay, sum the channels then remove the common source information, crossover, and attenuate.) You need a DSP to do this. The reason to do rear fill is to achieve a concert hall type effect. Just adding 2 speakers back there and feeding them the same signals that the front speakers are getting won't achieve this, in fact, it will likely negatively affect your soundstage, bringing the vocals towards the rear of the car. I'd suggest skipping the rears completely unless you are going with true rear fill.
In general, it's not a good idea to have multiple driver pairs playing the exact same frequencies. Which is why I suggested a 2-way component set for you.
 
#28 ·
So youre saying to use only 4 speakers and a sub? Isn't that a bit underwhelming? I was thinking of actually using the back ones, just bigger, as what they are now...mid-range. And the door for my understanding of what they are, mid to low and then the tweeters in the pilars. But, since this is all so new and confusing, I might not do anything at all now. Or I might just replace the headunit....because as John stated, it's been my understanding that the stereo does wake up with a new headunit.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Well, a 3-way active front setup would be better (2 midwoofers, 2 midrange, 2 tweeters), but it will involve some customization because there's no stock location for the midranges. But a quality 2-way component set with a big amp and sub will definitely not sound underwhelming. The Solstice has a tiny cabin. It's really all you need. With sufficient amp power, a good 2-way component set will blow you away. It's night and day from stock.
But you can't do a 3-way setup with the mids in the rear. It will sound bad, trust me. There will be a huge gap in the frequency response in the front stage. Soundwaves are directional, and the midranges will cover frequcies from around 300hz to 5k hz, so with no midrange in the front, it will sound as if the vocals are behind you, and everything else (except low bass which is omni-directional) is in front of you. The stock rears do not act as midranges. They most likely are crossed over just above the subwoofer, so they don't play the low frequencies, but they play the mids and highs (even though they don't have a tweeter). And the stock fronts cover midrange as well. The stock setup is not mids in the rear, lows in the door and highs in the A pillar. It's lows and mid in the door, highs in the A pillar and mids and highs in the rear.
Just replacing the headunit is a good start; you'll probably hear improvements. But for a really good setup, you'll need to replace speakers and the amp too.
While you have the panels off, you should also add sound deadening. This makes a huge difference.
 
#30 ·
I replaced my rear speakers at first, but ended up turning them down/off. It just gave a false sense of 'immersion' and pretty much ruined what soundstage there was.

Others may disagree - just my 2c - but I suggest you just worry about the fronts.
 
#32 ·
I put some 4 way pioneers in my doors, and some 2or 3 way rears (stick size tiny speakers) I think the rears were EXplode brand.... I didnt put the head unit in,it soulds much much beter than the oe speakers, but still not a lot of lowend,I didnt put the foam rear seals behind the door speakers as they didnt arive soonenough...I still havent put them in, possibly someday. and someday the head unit too.. but remember nomater what the speakers are or thier specs they will not fix a bad engineered or bad recorded tune, or bad copy of such. One thing I cant understand how in this day with all out tech, how I can buy a cd thats oh so shity sounding from the engineering or duplicating from the manufacture, and yet also buy one from another artist that's like your right there in the studio when it's recorded. oh I forget not many people buy cd's any longer...
 
#33 ·
but remember nomater what the speakers are or thier specs they will not fix a bad engineered or bad recorded tune, or bad copy of such.
Not worried about that, I only stream music now. It's so much easier and most phone services offer some form of streaming music service with your phone service free of charge.
 
#34 ·
One of the other items I'm going to do is put sound deadening in my car. Which is better? Dynamat or Kilmat? I can get 32 sq. ft. of Kilmat for 1/3 of the price of dynamat.
 
#35 ·
What are the specs of all of our speakers? Does anyone have them? Need to know ohms on each one please. What can I use with the OE equipment? Can I use a DVC 2ohm for the sub? What's the rating on the door speakers? RMS? OHMs???
 
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