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I have been e-mailing Chuck about the 2.4L motor and here are his answers to my questions.
I thought like the LS2 how many people would be interested on this type of setup, specially if he was able to provided it for under $30K, (ALTHOUGH HE HAS NOT SET A PRICE!!)

Hello Chuck,
My interest is different from everyone else's, what I like to know is what can you offer for the 2.4L Ecotech?.
I am looking at 275 to 330HP to the Ecotech motor, I think the stock transmission and diferential will take this, the other would be to beef up the brakes, plus a minor suspension tweak.
Would you be offering something along this lines?.
Thank you.

>>> Chuck Mallett <[email protected]> 05/13/05 1:33 PM >>>

Hello LV, (I am using my forum ID instead of my name)

yes , we are going to have a full line of performance parts.
4 Cly, 8Cly, brakes, Suspension, wheels and tires!!


Thanks you,

Chuck Mallett


Thanks Chuck,
But what I was asking is more on the line of instead of the LS2 400HP offering for 34 - 38K
A 300HP 2.4L Ecotech from you.
What price if I supply the car?.
What price if the car comes from you?.
Thanks in advance.

Chuck Mallett

LV, (I am using my forum ID rather than my name)

I do not have a price point at this time for the 2.4L .
The 300 HP is supercharged.
The 2.4L is 6 months behind the 6.0L
Thanks

Chuck Mallett
 

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Interesting

I like hearing that Mr. Mallett is looking at a sport version of the 2.4L engine as option too. My guess is that an engine rebuild would be required to produce 300 hp (lower compression, balance crank, re-inforced cylinder walls, etc.). Having done F/I on Honda cars I know this can get quite evolved with parts (inter-coolers, fuel management, CPU remaps, etc.). My guess is that this upgrade would be around $7k or more because of all the addons needed.

Mr. Malletts solution of taking a already successful small block engine and transplanting it in sounds easier to perform from his stand point. The install is simpler and less involved; especially with maintenance required afterwards. Like the old engine saying goes, "There is no substitute for cubic inches".
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Delnari:
He said Supercharged not Turbo.
 

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Well, to achieve 300HP from a Force Induced motor such as a 2.4 liter motor with a high compression ratio, I'm thinking it won't take much boost at all. I know in the Spec_V community, people have been putting from 260 to 280HP at the wheels just from 6 to 8 psi of boost, which is over 300HP at the crank. Our motor is only slightly larger at 2.5 liters, and has a slightly lower compression ratio of 9.5:1. A higher ratio of 10.6:1 will make every PSI of boost a lot more productive, but then our engines will probably not be able to take much over 8psi with out too much strain on the connecting rods. 300HP though does seem like a reality.
 

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Jus2shy said:
Well, to achieve 300HP from a Force Induced motor such as a 2.4 liter motor with a high compression ratio, I'm thinking it won't take much boost at all. I know in the Spec_V community, people have been putting from 260 to 280HP at the wheels just from 6 to 8 psi of boost, which is over 300HP at the crank. Our motor is only slightly larger at 2.5 liters, and has a slightly lower compression ratio of 9.5:1. A higher ratio of 10.6:1 will make every PSI of boost a lot more productive, but then our engines will probably not be able to take much over 8psi with out too much strain on the connecting rods. 300HP though does seem like a reality.
Heat is always the enemy when going to F/I on any engine. You must reduce heat soak in the intake charge. Things that are problems when doing F/I is incoming air temp., engine compression ratios, timing, and exhaust not moving out fast enough. Yes, you can F/I any engine, how well it will run is all in the setup. Lower compression, better breathing ablility, cool intake charge, right amount of valve timing, and computer mapping are what makes it work well without problems. Running any compression over 10:1 compression with the amount of air volume F/I adds can quickly age an engine. Just tear down a F/I engine after 50K miles on it if you don't believe me.
 

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I'm personally more interested in a system that doesn't require modifing the internals of the engine. From another member they supposedly contacted ProCharger and they're making a system. They've made systems for the Acura Integra which is also a 10.6:1 CR engine. I don't mind it making less power, I just don't want to have to spend $7k+ on parts then tack on labor.
 

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Delnari said:
Heat is always the enemy when going to F/I on any engine. You must reduce heat soak in the intake charge. Things that are problems when doing F/I is incoming air temp., engine compression ratios, timing, and exhaust not moving out fast enough. Yes, you can F/I any engine, how well it will run is all in the setup. Lower compression, better breathing ablility, cool intake charge, right amount of valve timing, and computer mapping are what makes it work well without problems. Running any compression over 10:1 compression with the amount of air volume F/I adds can quickly age an engine. Just tear down a F/I engine after 50K miles on it if you don't believe me.
Oh, I have an idea from being in the neon community (dodge neon DOHC motors have 9.8:1 compression). I definately believe that heat willl be the biggest issue with this engine, especially with that high compression, intercooling would be a necessity, period with the stock CR. Boost will also be highly limited, probably down to a max of like 6psi or so with that high compression. I understand the basics of thermal dynamics, mainly adiabatic expansion and compression, which is how our engines work (otto cycle right? Can't remember the exact cycle of the modern engine).
 

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ProCharger says their kit for the Integra Type-R pushes 8psi, and generates 70%-75% more power. Which if true is over 300HP on a 10.6:1 CR engine.

I'm going to look into it more, and possibly give them a call/email about a Solstice kit for those who might be interested in this type of thing.
 

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brentil said:
ProCharger says their kit for the Integra Type-R pushes 8psi, and generates 70%-75% more power. Which if true is over 300HP on a 10.6:1 CR engine.

I'm going to look into it more, and possibly give them a call/email about a Solstice kit for those who might be interested in this type of thing.
That would be sweet to get 300HP out of the 2.4L that's already in there. I'd be up for it!
 

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Out of curiosity, does anyone have an educated guess as to the service life of a 2.4L motor delivering 300HP. I assume a 180 HP motor would be under taxed and could last anywhere from 100,000 miles of city stop and go driving to maybe 200,000 easy highway miles. So what range of service life could we expect from a 300HP motor? Also, being that there is so much power on tap, I assume that prospective buyers would use some of that power. With the additional heat and strees, I call that hard driving. Would you even expect to see 100,000 miles before a complete rebuild? Would you even see 75,000?
 

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If it's anything like overclocking a cpu, you're cutting the lifespan in half at least from what I've noticed. I've run cpus at 33-50% more then their rated speeds and they've died after about 2 years of running 24/7 under full load.
 

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jimbo said:
Out of curiosity, does anyone have an educated guess as to the service life of a 2.4L motor delivering 300HP. I assume a 180 HP motor would be under taxed and could last anywhere from 100,000 miles of city stop and go driving to maybe 200,000 easy highway miles. So what range of service life could we expect from a 300HP motor? Also, being that there is so much power on tap, I assume that prospective buyers would use some of that power. With the additional heat and strees, I call that hard driving. Would you even expect to see 100,000 miles before a complete rebuild? Would you even see 75,000?
It really depends on the turbo system setup, and how 300HP is achieved. if it is achieved with just an Intercooled Turbo system bolted up with proper fuel metering, it shouldn't be that much more of a detriment. Ambient air charges would probably just be an extra 100 degrees over the temp of the air already going into the engine (assuming lets say 6 - 8 intercooled psi). I'm too lazy to use the Pv = NrT law right now, maybe later (don't feel like looking up the moles and such). If the motor isn't constantly driven hard, it'll have close to the same life. Maintenance will be a bigger deal though, like running nothing but synthetics(it resists coking far better than dino oil), maybe more frequent oil changes (every 3 to 5k depending on the harsh conditions service interval). There are plenty of people out there that turbocharged an otherwise stock motor just fine, as long as they took good care of it, and the turbo is properly sized for the appliaction with proper fueling and intercooling, have not really had any new issues with their turbo. In the Spec_V community, this is also showing true to those with a proper turbo kit, and these guys run 260 - 280 WHP (roughly 300HP at the crank) with no problem day in and out. Same experience with neons running 8-10 psi boost, making roughly 230HP at the wheels (but they're only a 2 liter).

IOW, they get about 80 to 90% of the life of a motor is my educated guess. But it seems to me that a well maintained aftermarket boosted motor runs almost like a stock one.
 

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I would think it is in how you care and treat this motor. It also already has some features like the under piston oil squirters, plus I am sure it was build to handle more power than just 180HP.
 

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brentil said:
I'm personally more interested in a system that doesn't require modifing the internals of the engine. From another member they supposedly contacted ProCharger and they're making a system. They've made systems for the Acura Integra which is also a 10.6:1 CR engine. I don't mind it making less power, I just don't want to have to spend $7k+ on parts then tack on labor.
Then your best bet is to put a factory supercharger on the car, seems to me. Eaton/Magnusson makes various sizes of pulleys so you can fine tune the boost. You wouldn't even need to have an intake manifold fabricated. With the stock pulley, you'd make less boost on the bigger engine (since you're putting the same amount of air into a bigger volume), but more torque (thanks to the VVT) and similar horsepower to the 2.0 supercharged. Then you could experiment with different pulleys to find the boost limit on pump gas.

The nice thing about the factory supercharger over the Procharger is that it makes boost from almost zero rpm.
 

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LatinVenom said:
Delnari:
He said Supercharged not Turbo.
Sounds correct. It will cost a tuner less money to supercharge an engine than install a proper turbo. The main difference is the compression factor between a turbo and supercharger. Take a look at some good supercharger turners and see how they handle engines with 11:1 ratios. The computer is modified to allow for the boost; which is much lower than in a turbo application. The ECOTEC valve train can handle 300 hp, but the crank and rods can not. So this would be the only major change to the engine.

Now, GM Tuners are going the turbo route to compete more effectively with the other sports cars in the under $40k market. The turbo version from GM will be in the 8-12 lbs of boost range. If you take this engine and change out the valve train, rods, and crank you can boost up to 22lbs! With a bigger intercooler and cool sprayer you could modified this engine up to 400 hp. The best part the upgrades to this factory engine will cost under $5k. A Mallett supercharger version without brakes and suspension is going to be $8k-$10k.

I love what Mallett is doing, but if you are looking for an upgrade under $10k of the base Solstice for 300-400 hp then the turbo GT version due out next spring for under $29k is a better choice IMO. :lol:
 

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brentil said:
ProCharger says their kit for the Integra Type-R pushes 8psi, and generates 70%-75% more power. Which if true is over 300HP on a 10.6:1 CR engine.

I'm going to look into it more, and possibly give them a call/email about a Solstice kit for those who might be interested in this type of thing.

Remember, the Honda engine, B18C5 can spin over 9500 rpms without a problem. One thing Honda does well is overkill on their engine components. Putting 8 psi on Honda B18 engine is probably ok, but GM Tuners suggest a crank replacement when going pass 250 hp.
 

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Delnari said:
Remember, the Honda engine, B18C5 can spin over 9500 rpms without a problem. One thing Honda does well is overkill on their engine components. Putting 8 psi on Honda B18 engine is probably ok, but GM Tuners suggest a crank replacement when going pass 250 hp.
It seems to me that the crank is good up to about 350, and its the rods that don't cut it, or actually cut right through the block. I read it somewhere on this forum and I think that if you can find the article about how GM got the engine to 700hp, it states the crank failed around 400 and is reliable to 350.
 
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