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It seems like all the TALK about the New Miata MX - 5 is more horsepower, like 25% more and 33% more torque. But they never say how many horses are in there, bull, does any one know the horse power on this new car.. What do you guys think, the super charger on a 170 HP Solstice will blow this rice burner away. Do you think the Solstice will take the ZOOM ZOOM out of the MX- 5 , I do. Sea Pirate
 

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The stats on the Mazdaspeed Miata are: 178 HP, 166 lb-ft of torque pulling around 2540 lbs of car (14.3 lbs per HP).

Car and driver tested a pre-production car to 6.7 sec to 60, and 15.2 @ 91 throught the quarter. However, they also said they think there may be more there, but they had to be gently with this one per Mazda's request because it was pre-production.

A supercharged Solstice might be able to dust it, but are you talking about an aftermarket add-on to the Solstice engine, or a potential factory S/C'd Solstice.

If it uses a factory 2.0L S/C ecotec, it may or may not blow the doors off the Mazdaspeed. That engine is rated 205/200 (although its a little underrated for HP, about right on for torque). If the curb weight of the car was 2860 it would give it 13.95 HP/lb. However, it is likely to be a little heavier due to the added weight of the supercharger and intercooler, so its likely the HP/liter will be spot on. That engine in the 2004 Ion Redline has been tested around 7 seconds to 60, low 15's in the quarter (although Road and Track did get it to 60 in the mid 6's and high 14's in the quarter, they seem to be one of the few sources to get such a good time). Either way, the Solstice could beat the Mazdaspeed, but its not exactly going to blow the doors off of it.

Now a modified 2.4L ecotec may or may not be another story. Since we don't even have the engine out in any vehicle yet, we cannot even evaluate it stock. Whether its underrated or overrated for HP, how flexible the powerband is, etc etc. We also do not know if GM will offer an aftermarket S/C like on the 2.2L, or how much power that would reliably add.

Also keep in mind Mazda is preparing a new from the ground up Miata to replace the current car which may have considerably more power. There are not many specifics out there, but Mazda has some good 4 cylinder engines that are fairly powerful they could use (the 2.3L PZEV for instance) or even rotary power in the next Miata.

For now I would say the Solstice and Miata will be very competitive, and GM has a chance to make the Solstice faster than the Mazdaspeed if they do things right with the uplevel motor. But the real test will depend on what Mazda brings out as a Miata replacement in a year or two.
 

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SeaPirate,

Have you driven a Mazdaspeed Miata?

I have, and was very disappointed. The turbo has an extremely short working range (it comes on and then you're redline), and they took a step backward with steering feel.

Structure is not great, either. The one I drove I had trouble on these Michigan roads looking in the rear view mirror.

The Mazda dealer that rode with me didn't seem too happy with me dissing his baby, but hey - he's there for my service, isn't he?

If the thing is much below 0-60 in 7 seconds, I'd be very surprised. It was definitely nothing like the Honda S2000. The mazdaspeed is obviously stronger than it's anemic little naturally-aspirated brother - but the base MX-5 is a true dog.

When I'm looking for a fun car, I'm looking toward the Mazdaspeed as the BASE model.

The Solstice power-to-weight ratio is about in-between the N/A miata and the TC mazdaspeed - at least by my quick calcs (and the Mazdaspeed seems to have picked up about 70 to 100 lbs; YIKES!) - so I'd expect the BASE Solstice to be faster than the normal miata, but still not quite as fast as the mazdaspeed version.

BUT (and this is a BIG BUT!) the mazdaspeed is cramped, crappy, and something is wrong with their new pedal placement for the clutch, and its $26,000+!!!

The stripped, $20,000 Solstice is supposed to have a tremendous amount of content, including the same suspension, wheels and tires, steering, engine, transmission... so the only 'performance enhancing' option that seems available would be the LSD, which usually won't help for a dry acceleration performance.

The rest of the options that probably inflate the price to 25-26ish are amenities like power accessories, sound packages, etc.

HANDS DOWN, NO CONTEST, the Solstice LOOKS much better than the Miata.

Overall winner, IMHO, Solstice for value, performance advantage over the base Miata. Also Solstice for value VS. performance when compared to the mazdaspeed version.
 

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Our posts crossed in the mail! :smile

solsticeman said:
HANDS DOWN, NO CONTEST, the Solstice LOOKS much better than the Miata.

Overall winner, IMHO, Solstice for value, performance advantage over the base Miata. Also Solstice for value VS. performance when compared to the mazdaspeed version.
I totally agree with your assessment. I am a little surprised you were so dissappointed with the test drive of the car based on the car rag reviews that have been out. However I agree it is not a great value, and only an additional 30+ HP out of the boosted engine is really not much to write home about. I would take a Solstice over a Mazdaspeed even if it were slower based ont he value equation.
 

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Fformula88,

get to a mazda dealership and try to get a drive in one - apparently they are somewhat hard to get ahold of, but I got lucky with a dealership order. I asked him the MSRP, and he even tried to give me the "unnnh, another dealership is offering me $29,000 for it, so..."

My advice was to "jump on that deal, dude, and dump this POS if someone is willing to give you almost $3000 extra for it, 'cause it's hardly worth MSRP." Somehow, he didn't seem too happy with my comment. His response had something to do with me not knowing what I was talking about... if he only knew... :rolleyes

Really, you need to drive it to be thoroughly disappointed. But, then again, I really have never liked the Miata - way too cramped and small for my ever expanding physique (and not in a healthy way, if you know what I mean... ;) :cheers :lol ).
 

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solsticeman said:
SeaPirate,

Have you driven a Mazdaspeed Miata?

I have, and was very disappointed. The turbo has an extremely short working range (it comes on and then you're redline), and they took a step backward with steering feel.
This is why we don't want a turbo in the Solstice. This describes common traits of a turbocharger due to being exhaust driven and their centrifugal nature. Supercharger. Prefer screw type, but we'll probably get Roots type. Just close your eyes and imagine supercharger... supercharger....Ohummmm.
 

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The more performance oriented folks on the Miata board seem to agree an aftermarket blower provides more bang for the buck than to go with the MSM. I suppose the same may apply to the Solstice. Some are sure the third generation Miata will have a 2.0 liter engine and will weigh less than the present model. I wouldn't be so sure there will be a blown version of the third generation Miata, at least for a while. I really don't know what to expect from Mazda this time. Likewise, I don't feel comfortable carrying power to weight ratio figures out to two decimal places for a car that is still a long way from the show room.

I think it is premature to decide which will outperform the other. I think there will be more than subtle differences between the cars, and I think they will each have their strong points. They will be different cars for different tastes. I will have to get some butt time in both of them before I determine which, if either, is for me.
 

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AeroDave said:
This is why we don't want a turbo in the Solstice. This describes common traits of a turbocharger due to being exhaust driven and their centrifugal nature. Supercharger. Prefer screw type, but we'll probably get Roots type. Just close your eyes and imagine supercharger... supercharger....Ohummmm.
You having said that, I did get a ride in something that was a lot of fun. And it was turbo (twin, actually). Variable-vane type.

Amazing torque (of course 4WD helped). Just a rush of speed. 0-60 in under 5 seconds. In an SUV!
:cool

But don't tell anyone! ;)

Anyways, I know it's possible to get very decent turbo performance - drove the Saab with the 2.0 (or was it 2.2? my mind is playing tricks on me) and the characteristics of this were nothing like the peaky feel of the mazdaspeed.

I've been told that on smaller displacement engines, SC's don't make as much peak power - trading that for modest gains in lower end torque. SC's are supposed to be better for larger motors where the SC driving losses are a lower overall percentage of the total torque/power of the motor.

Simply stated, if you have a 300 hp motor, and you want to go to 450, use a SC. If you have a 150 hp motor and you want to go to 250, use a TC.

I'm going to have to start going to other towns, 'cause the dealerships around here are starting to recognize me. :lol

However, one of the Saturn dealers in driving distance to me is supposed to have a Redline ION for demo - I'm waiting to get to drive that one.
 

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solsticeman said:
You having said that, I did get a ride in something that was a lot of fun. And it was turbo (twin, actually). Variable-vane type.

Amazing torque (of course 4WD helped). Just a rush of speed. 0-60 in under 5 seconds. In an SUV!
:cool

However, one of the Saturn dealers in driving distance to me is supposed to have a Redline ION for demo - I'm waiting to get to drive that one.
Was that recent? Was it one of those GMC Typhoons? Those looked totally sick. I'm interested to see your impressions of the ION. It seems like the potential doesn't match the actual performance figures.
 

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solsticeman said:
However, one of the Saturn dealers in driving distance to me is supposed to have a Redline ION for demo - I'm waiting to get to drive that one.
The biggest complaint I have read about in regards to the Ion Redline is that the 1-2 shift drops the engine out of its power curve due to the gearing. However, that has not seemed like a universal complaint either so it might be a result of how some people drive the car. Just be aware of it on your drive (if you can really wind out the car).

I look forward to hearing about this test drive!
 

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solsticeman said:
No, it wasn't a typhoon. It was an "unoffical" ride. When the moon aligned just perfectly.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/concepts/112_0203_blazer/index.html

I'm waiting for the celestial events to align once again, maybe on or about a certain Solstice ;)
That's pretty cool and impressive skid pad numbers. I wonder what the slalom speed was? The concept doesn't excite me much because as impressive as the package is, I can't imagine a legitimate use for such a thing. LOL
 

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solsticeman said:
I've been told that on smaller displacement engines, SC's don't make as much peak power - trading that for modest gains in lower end torque.
That's where most Americans (my self included) drive, in the lower end of the power band, utilizing torque. We like instant gratification, step on the gas and go! Not wind up the rubberband and then go.

Anyhow, I'm sure that with enough money and engineering, a turbocharger can be spectacular, but for the sake of simplicity, cost, reliability and ease of maintenence, I think the effieciency trade off of the supercharger is the way to go. It's just my silly opinion anyhow. It's all good. I'll be happy with the Solstice even in the NA version.
 

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Actually, the buzz has it that this is a mule: the sheet metal of the RX-8 grafted onto the chassis mule of the next gen Miata (called the "NC"?) for chassis testing purposes and not giving anything away as to appearance.

Count on this: Mazda hits the next auto show in January 05 with a big splash - their Next Generation Miata!!!! AND it's really coming out in literally 6 months or less!!!

Everyone goes "WOW", that's fast!!! Except they've been working on it for as long as GM has the Solstice - just a lot less fanfare.

My only wish is that they actually make it look like the IBUKI concept.
http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/03tms_mazibuki/index.html

If they do, that should about cinch the deal on the solstice, 'cause it means mazda only has "cute but vomit-inducingly ugly" on their minds.

Instead of "What were they thinking" it would be "WERE they thinking".

The Solstice and Saturn Kappa (if it looks like we all suspect) have NOTHING on the Ibuki concept.
 

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That Ibuki thing looks lika a giant blue tylonol capsule. I pray that mazda doesn't pollute our roads with that thing!
 

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The Ibuki is powered by a 1.6-liter four-cylinder engine and utilizes a front-midship layout, like the RX-8, to place all major mechanical components inside the 91.7-inch wheelbase, which is 2.5 inches longer than the current car's. Compared with the current Miata, the engine is located nearly 16 inches more rearward and 1.6 inches lower.
There goes any chance of increased legroom! Even if they make the little trunk littler.
 

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Most sportscars help to make the driver look good. The Ibuki makes anyone in it look like a FisherPrice person. I wonder if the seats go up and down as it goes down the road? Who wants to ride around in a soap bar? We need piipor to make a white one with green stripes for that Irish Spring look! :lol Anyhow, Mazda's not dumb, I'm sure we'll never see that thing again.
 
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