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Discussion Starter #1
Manufacturers Dictated Retail Price

Opps thats not right its MSRP the S means suggested. This is a free market Supply and Demand economy. The resources it takes to open a new car dealership are beyind the means of most of us and a sucessful dealership has to maintain a favorable cash flow anyway they can. The car business is cutthroat at best, a LOT of competition. To sit behind your computer screen and complain endlessly about a dealer selling something for what he thinks it is worth is both futile and annoying. If you want to have the price of everything you buy set by someone other than the retailer you need to move to a communist county. BTW the communist countries have found out that that doen't work and are slowly evolving to a free enterprise system or in case you haven't noticed changed to a Democratic System (The Former Soviet Union). Yes some dealerships do things differently from others, some use good service, competent employees and low prices to draw repeat customers and other assign a market value to their property to gain the maximum return on their investment. The dealership is not there to be your friend but to make money for the owners and provide an income for their employees. Where you spend you money is up to you and the price your willing to pay is your choice but don't expect instant gratification and not be willing to pay for it.
On the flip side ask yourself this. You live in the sun belt, 6 months after you buy your Solstice your told by your boss your transfered to Alaska and the smart thing to do is sell your car. When its on the market someone offers you more than MSRP for the car because its still in high demand. What would you do now that its your money ?
The plus side of this for all Solstice owners is the high demand will increase the resale value of our cars.
 

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z3404 said:
Manufacturers Dictated Retail Price

Opps thats not right its MSRP the S means suggested. This is a free market Supply and Demand economy. The resources it takes to open a new car dealership are beyind the means of most of us and a sucessful dealership has to maintain a favorable cash flow anyway they can. The car business is cutthroat at best, a LOT of competition. To sit behind your computer screen and complain endlessly about a dealer selling something for what he thinks it is worth is both futile and annoying. If you want to have the price of everything you buy set by someone other than the retailer you need to move to a communist county. BTW the communist countries have found out that that doen't work and are slowly evolving to a free enterprise system or in case you haven't noticed changed to a Democratic System (The Former Soviet Union). Yes some dealerships do things differently from others, some use good service, competent employees and low prices to draw repeat customers and other assign a market value to their property to gain the maximum return on their investment. The dealership is not there to be your friend but to make money for the owners and provide an income for their employees. Where you spend you money is up to you and the price your willing to pay is your choice but don't expect instant gratification and not be willing to pay for it.
On the flip side ask yourself this. You live in the sun belt, 6 months after you buy your Solstice your told by your boss your transfered to Alaska and the smart thing to do is sell your car. When its on the market someone offers you more than MSRP for the car because its still in high demand. What would you do now that its your money ?
The plus side of this for all Solstice owners is the high demand will increase the resale value of our cars.

You entirely miss the point here. General Motors, who has more at stake than the dealer has asked him to join a marketing strategy of offering this car at MSRP in order to seed a program that they hope will pay off with repeat customers. Instead they give the whole industry a bad name. So screw dealers who don't want to be my friend. I found plenty who do and am getting MSRP and have sent referrals to two dealers so far. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
And I have done the same for my dealer.
Now as for the other point if you had to sell your car and someone offered you more than MSRP for it what would you do ??
 

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Tell you what you should do. Come down to the local areas that were affected greatly during the hurricanes that came through here and talk to those people that needed the simple things like water or fuel for their vehicles. Ask them what they think about the price gouging and apply your comment to that rationale.
Demand is one thing. Gouging because you can is quite another.

The question is who is more dumb for the act: the seller or the buyer?
 

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z3404 said:
And I have done the same for my dealer.
Now as for the other point if you had to sell your car and someone offered you more than MSRP for it what would you do ??
I'll tell you what I just did with my boat. I accepted an offer for my boat at a fair price two weeks ago. The next day after I accepted someone else offered much higher. The price I accepted was fair because it's off season in New England right now and I also wanted some spare loot for the Sol purchase. I could easily have grabbed 6k more from the second guy or gotten it next Spring(the guy actually sent me a check drawn on Chase for the six k+ price) But I gave my word to the first couple. I didn't flinch, sent his check back and I'm not sorry at all. I ain't rich and I got nothing against money, but your word is your word. bottom line-Happy Camper ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Gouging

I was in South Florida when Andrew came thru and went thru that first hand. You know what, price gouging is illegal under those circumstances. A lot of people that took advantage of those circumstances were justifiably prosecuted for their actions hopefully the same will happen for those doing it now. A few years ago this area was subjected to a hail storm the ruined 80% of the roofs and damaged any car that was outside. The free enterprise system allowed the specialists in those area to flock to the region to repair the damage as quickly as possible just as is happening in the Gulf Region today. Yes some are unscrupulouse and some are ethical specialists that deal in storm damage repair but also know what their time and experience is worth.
Now how you can equate a dealer charging what he wants for his property and diaster damage gouging in the same sentence is beyond me.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Bird
What you did was the ethical thing to do. Since you had acccepted the first offer you felt commited to honor that and that was the ethical thing to do. Now if the guy that approached you second had been the first one to contact you for the boat I suspect you'ld have a lot more money in your pocket now. I in no way condone a dealer going back on an agreement verbal or in writing for the price. If I was in that situation and had the deal in writing I would take legal action against the offending dealer. I have read that happeneing to some in this forum and they have my sympathy and support.
 

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z3404, no one's arguing that they can't do what they want, but it's plain and simple stupid business. For a short term gain on an auto that they already are able to sell at MSRP (which is a rarity), they are alienating customers for future business. Jus t because I have a "right" to do something doesn't mean that it is a good idea, or even in my best interest. They are leaving a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, and when it comes time to buy their next car (which likely won't be in such high demand), they will be looking elsewhere. And remember that many of these dealers aren't even being up front about it. They are letting their customers believe they are getting it for MSRP, and then after the long wait and it is delivered, they are demanding premiums. It may not be illegal, but it's most definitely unethical.
 

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I Agree......

Editguy said:
z3404, no one's arguing that they can't do what they want, but it's plain and simple stupid business. For a short term gain on an auto that they already are able to sell at MSRP (which is a rarity), they are alienating customers for future business. Jus t because I have a "right" to do something doesn't mean that it is a good idea, or even in my best interest. They are leaving a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths, and when it comes time to buy their next car (which likely won't be in such high demand), they will be looking elsewhere. And remember that many of these dealers aren't even being up front about it. They are letting their customers believe they are getting it for MSRP, and then after the long wait and it is delivered, they are demanding premiums. It may not be illegal, but it's most definitely unethical.
Well Stated Edit.....
:agree:
 

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can you say REPEAT CUSTOMER???? if i'm stupid enough to let a dealer gouge me then that will be the last time i buy from that dealer (and probably that maker). i pissed a dealer off about an 30 minutes from my home because he wanted 1000.00 over MSRP and i said no thanks, i'll go somewhere and get it for MSRP and not a penny more (and i did just that). this crooked dealer than had the gall to tell me all i was interested in was money. ALL "I" WAS INTERESTED IN WAS MONEY????????????? Hello!!!!! i'm not the one who was trying to gouging someone here.
 

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z3404 said:
Manufacturers Dictated Retail Price

Opps thats not right its MSRP the S means suggested. This is a free market Supply and Demand economy. The resources it takes to open a new car dealership are beyind the means of most of us and a sucessful dealership has to maintain a favorable cash flow anyway they can. The car business is cutthroat at best, a LOT of competition. To sit behind your computer screen and complain endlessly about a dealer selling something for what he thinks it is worth is both futile and annoying. If you want to have the price of everything you buy set by someone other than the retailer you need to move to a communist county. BTW the communist countries have found out that that doen't work and are slowly evolving to a free enterprise system or in case you haven't noticed changed to a Democratic System (The Former Soviet Union). Yes some dealerships do things differently from others, some use good service, competent employees and low prices to draw repeat customers and other assign a market value to their property to gain the maximum return on their investment. The dealership is not there to be your friend but to make money for the owners and provide an income for their employees. Where you spend you money is up to you and the price your willing to pay is your choice but don't expect instant gratification and not be willing to pay for it.
Anywhere else I go to buy a product I expect and do pay the advertised price. If a dealer is not going to except a given price for a product, then don't advertise it.

Why is it that only Pontiac Dealers address their financial woes by gouging their customers.

Sure are a lot of dealers on this forum.
 

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z3404 said:
Manufacturers Dictated Retail Price...To sit behind your computer screen and complain endlessly about a dealer selling something for what he thinks it is worth is both futile and annoying.
Annoying - maybe, Futile - hardly! I'll wager that a LOT of people here on this forum avoided being screwed because of the knowledge gained by people 'endlessly compaining' :yesnod:

A true market economy is a two-way street - as consumers, its not only our right - but our duty to seek out the best deals. This is how we keep the sellers honest :patriot:

As for the ill will expressed towards dealers on this site - most of it has been towards instances of 'bait and switch' or other deceptive practices. I know that my dealer recently sold a Solstice to someone in California for $36K :eek: Do I hold any malice towards him for this - of course not, he kept his word (MSRP) with me. This is the first car I've purchased from him - and probably NOT the last :yesnod:
z3404 said:
The plus side of this for all Solstice owners is the high demand will increase the resale value of our cars.
Maybe if you're planning to 'flip' it during the next 6 - 12 months, once the hype wears off - there is going to be a lot of 'buyers remorse' from people that overpaid :brentil:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Edit & D

I agree with what you guys said. Selling over MSRP can be short sighted and not in a dealers long term goals. Yes it can leave a bad taste in a potential customers mouth. Now looking at past histroy this is not the first car with a demand that is exceeding the supply. The PT Cruiser and Miata come to mind as cars that were sold over MSRP when they were introduced. I notice that both manufacturers are still in business. A small dealer with low overhead is more apt to operate in a way that will draw repeat business. A large dealer in a large metropolitan area may have overhead issues that demand they get every cent they can for every car they sell these are all factors that go into a dealers decision as to how he will conduct their franchises. The buying public can be very fickle and dealer loyalty may only last until the next major sales promotion from a competitor. Usually when buying a car you look for the dealer that has the car for the least price and that can get confusing in a hurry. Especially when things like trade ins, financing and insurance are considered. If a dealer wants more than MSRP I'm sure they recognize that they will alienate some buyers. If the dealer continually guesses wrong on that impact for their market its a self correcting problem the dealer will go out of business. As long as I ask a dealer his price and he doesn't lie to me I don't have a problem with that dealer. If the price is more than I think the car is worth I'll go elsewhere. 6 months from now that same dealer may be holding a tent sale and have just what i need for the best price. A dealer that is dishonest. unethical, lies to me won't get my business. Ya know the funny thing is this is the first car I've ever purchased that I'm willin to pay MSRP for, a year ago if you told me I'ld be paying that for any car I'ld have thought you were nuts. Dealers can cut prices on cars all day long and its never raises an eyebrow but try to get what they think is fair market value for it and some folks get all up in arms. An old indian proverb comes to mind here. never judge anyone until you have walked a mile in their moccasins
 

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Fair enough! And you know you're right, perspectives change when MSRP is being considered a great deal. I had the same thought! ;)
 

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z3404 said:
Edit & D
A large dealer in a large metropolitan area may have overhead issues that demand they get every cent they can for every car they sell these are all factors that go into a dealers decision as to how he will conduct their franchises. The buying public can be very fickle and dealer loyalty may only last until the next major sales promotion from a competitor. Usually when buying a car you look for the dealer that has the car for the least price and that can get confusing in a hurry. Especially when things like trade ins, financing and insurance are considered. If a dealer wants more than MSRP I'm sure they recognize that they will alienate some buyers. If the dealer continually guesses wrong on that impact for their market its a self correcting problem the dealer will go out of business.
I have no doubt that dealers face all sorts of financial challenges, as do most businesses. But how many other businesses operate the way a lot of dealers do, and remain in business? The reason auto dealers in metropolitain areas get by with it and don't go out of business is because of the sizes of the cities and the infrequency of car purchases for most people. I think most people would return over amnd over to a dealer that is honest with them.
 

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z3404 said:
I agree with what you guys said. Selling over MSRP can be short sighted and not in a dealers long term goals.
I can testify to that. The skunks at Champion Pontiac of North Houston, owned by AutoNation screwed me royal. I gave them a deposit on a Solstice on Feb 8, placed the official order April 15 like many people on the Forum. In July the salesman tells me: Oh, by the way, there will be a $3000 premium added on. It was too late to go to another dealer, but I hoped the dealer would not really do that to me. Alas, he did, and it was take it or leave it. Well, sure, I took it, I HAD to have my Solstice after waiting 8 months.

Good move, Champion, you made an extra $3000 profit on me! Whoopi (not Goldberg)! Actually a little less, since you threw in a GM Value Extended Warranty 60 month 75000 miles. So let's say $2500 profit.

Since that time I have sent ten people with thoughts of buying a Solstice to the dealership, 3 have purchased and 2 more are considering. That's about $5100 profit on 3 cars, plus $3400 more for the other 2, all because of my referrals.

Oh, did I forget to mention? I sent them to Beck & Masten, an honorable dealer. THEY are the ones making the $8500 extra profit, not those skunks at Champion!

There's some satisfaction to me in all that!

.
 

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gizmo2004 said:
I can testify to that. The skunks at Champion Pontiac of North Houston, owned by AutoNation screwed me royal. I gave them a deposit on a Solstice on Feb 8, placed the official order April 15 like many people on the Forum. In July the salesman tells me: Oh, by the way, there will be a $3000 premium added on. It was too late to go to another dealer, but I hoped the dealer would not really do that to me. Alas, he did, and it was take it or leave it. Well, sure, I took it, I HAD to have my Solstice after waiting 8 months.

Good move, Champion, you made an extra $3000 profit on me! Whoopi (not Goldberg)! Actually a little less, since you threw in a GM Value Extended Warranty 60 month 75000 miles. So let's say $2500 profit.

Since that time I have sent ten people with thoughts of buying a Solstice to the dealership, 3 have purchased and 2 more are considering. That's about $5100 profit on 3 cars, plus $3400 more for the other 2, all because of my referrals.

Oh, did I forget to mention? I sent them to Beck & Masten, an honorable dealer. THEY are the ones making the $8500 extra profit, not those skunks at Champion!

There's some satisfaction to me in all that!

.
Umm, let me get this straight...you don't like Champion Pontiac? :D
 

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Right after I delivered #239, the owners brought it down for a car show. Not only did I get to have some very interesting conversations with very passionate car people, but I also passed out ALOT OF BUSINESS CARDS.

I have sold 2 torrents and three grand prix's off of that, and a few used cars. I have seen so many diffent types of people in my SMALL TOWN DEALERSHIP that have a Porsche in the BARN and are very interested in this "new fan-dangled .....Slowstice?"

People that wouldn't ordinarily look at a pontiac are getting on the website, checking out the deals, and finding that there are alot of GM vehicles that are really cool.

If I am going to make a career out of this, I have to be honest. I walk past people every day in wal mart that I have sold a vehicle to. My personal pride is at stake. Maybe it's not like that in Chicago where everyone is out to be better than everyone else.

But I am not in Chicago, and alot of people aren't out to cut your throat.

Welcome to the forum..... by the way.
 

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cadillacricket said:
Right after I delivered #239, the owners brought it down for a car show. Not only did I get to have some very interesting conversations with very passionate car people, but I also passed out ALOT OF BUSINESS CARDS.

I have sold 2 torrents and three grand prix's off of that, and a few used cars. I have seen so many diffent types of people in my SMALL TOWN DEALERSHIP that have a Porsche in the BARN and are very interested in this "new fan-dangled .....Slowstice?"

People that wouldn't ordinarily look at a pontiac are getting on the website, checking out the deals, and finding that there are alot of GM vehicles that are really cool.

If I am going to make a career out of this, I have to be honest. I walk past people every day in wal mart that I have sold a vehicle to. My personal pride is at stake. Maybe it's not like that in Chicago where everyone is out to be better than everyone else.

But I am not in Chicago, and alot of people aren't out to cut your throat.

Welcome to the forum..... by the way.
That was cool, Cricket. Did you pay Dreamweaver any bird dog fees on those sales? Just kidding! How is he enjoying his car?

I sure wish I could send people to you, Cricket. You are one hell of a salesman AND a gentleman (and didn't we all think THAT would be an oxymoron!), but Missouri is just a little too far away from Houston. Oh well, you're still #1 on my list, with dealer nut and small dealer right behind!

.
 

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cadillacricket said:
Right after I delivered #239, the owners brought it down for a car show. Not only did I get to have some very interesting conversations with very passionate car people, but I also passed out ALOT OF BUSINESS CARDS.

I have sold 2 torrents and three grand prix's off of that, and a few used cars. I have seen so many diffent types of people in my SMALL TOWN DEALERSHIP that have a Porsche in the BARN and are very interested in this "new fan-dangled .....Slowstice?"

People that wouldn't ordinarily look at a pontiac are getting on the website, checking out the deals, and finding that there are alot of GM vehicles that are really cool.

If I am going to make a career out of this, I have to be honest. I walk past people every day in wal mart that I have sold a vehicle to. My personal pride is at stake. Maybe it's not like that in Chicago where everyone is out to be better than everyone else.

But I am not in Chicago, and alot of people aren't out to cut your throat.

Welcome to the forum..... by the way.
It's salesmen like you that keep me from completely giving up hope.
 
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