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Discussion Starter #1
Disclaimer, I know all cars can be modded to add power. The interesting thing with the MSM is that it's desgin was SOOOO conservative.

The first 2 sections of this page are especially interesting:

http://www.vishnutuning.com/miata_descrip.htm

200 and 230hp options:

http://www.vishnutuning.com/miata.htm

These options are ~$2K, a few other basic mods are available that overcome other engineering oversight on the stock MSM.

It really makes a case for the MSM is one big bang for your buck for performance, that is if you got those great reduced prices of $18K! 230+hpfor $21K, looking good for the performance enthusiasts :)

Mods, if you would, the MSM sidebar in the "Sol Clunk" thread could be moved here?
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
achieftain said:
MSM, days are few till debut of GXP. We luv ya dearly but don't compare MSM to stock Sol, please. But that would be Mazda's intent, wouldn't it?
I started this thread in response to the above. Why wouldn't it be fair to compare a stock Solstice to a MSM, they are about the same price and performance (leave looks out - subjective).

To compare a stock MSM to a GXP would be just as unfair, the GXP will be more $, and the MSM didn't have that level of competition available to shoot for.

With the overly conservative engineering of a MSM, at sticker of $26K, compared to a loaded $25K naturally aspirated Sol, it's a competition the MSM wins.

Now, add in, the MSM was a deal, and with proper engine management, can go head to head with a GXP. Sounds like a stock MSM wins against a stock Sosltice, and a properly tuned MSM can go head to head with a Sol GXP (of course the GXP performance is still open for speculation).

Remember, I will likely be a Sol and MSM owner, so I'm not trolling here, just good car talk.
 

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Just wait until I'm done with my car, I've got some big plans next summer!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Adrenaline said:
Just wait until I'm done with my car, I've got some big plans next summer!
Fair enough, but not the point, mods can go on forever on any car, there are some monster miata NBs out there that provethe point.

My question, was why the stock MSM isn't a fiar comparison to a stock nat aspirated sol?

My other point was to educate some here about the MSMs potential, and it's conservative nature coming from the factory) :)
 

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RODEO, those are some damn nice looking performance gains for not having to do too much to the entire system. With the price people can get MSM's at now new still I think a 2005 MSM with a couple of upgrades like this will be a far better contendor for the Solstice then the NC. Guess what too, like RODEO said it'll cost you less total then a Solstice or a NC. The lack of desire for the late gen NB MSM seems to be one of the best things to happen for people looking for good cheap RWD performance cars, besides the Solstice of course. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #6
brentil said:
RODEO, those are some damn nice looking performance gains for not having to do too much to the entire system. With the price people can get MSM's at now new still I think a 2005 MSM with a couple of upgrades like this will be a far better contendor for the Solstice then the NC. Guess what too, like RODEO said it'll cost you less total then a Solstice or a NC. The lack of desire for the late gen NB MSM seems to be one of the best things to happen for people looking for good cheap RWD performance cars, besides the Solstice of course. ;)
:thumbs:

I thought some of you that have tracked the MSM in the past would enjoy those links :)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
brentil said:
RODEO, those are some damn nice looking performance gains for not having to do too much to the entire system. With the price people can get MSM's at now new still I think a 2005 MSM with a couple of upgrades like this will be a far better contendor for the Solstice then the NC. Guess what too, like RODEO said it'll cost you less total then a Solstice or a NC. The lack of desire for the late gen NB MSM seems to be one of the best things to happen for people looking for good cheap RWD performance cars, besides the Solstice of course. ;)
Also note, those dyno graphs are rather old, here's vishnu's comments about them, and his current MSM thoughts:

Quote from Shiv:
"FWIW,the dynojet graphs on the site represent very very early testing. So early, in fact, that some of the more critical components of the stages weren't even installed on that particular test car. So you could say that they represent worse than the worse possible case as far as power output goes. Once we get back to a dynojet (I rarely use them these days since they aren't very useful or actual mapping), I'll update the site with new graphs. As far as comparing the Mustang dyno numbers to Dynojets, I'd rather not do so at this stage. While the Mustang dyno reads convervatively compared to Dynojets, by how much remains uncertain.

But I think it's safe to say, that Suibzeo is limited to 180-185 Dynojet whp (due to stock injector limitations) while Stg Zero is free to safely make 200-210whp. I'd estimate another 15-20whp is avaiable with a full exhaust. Maybe a tick or two more with our FMIC upgrade. Still early in the game though so we still may have a few pleasant surprises ahead of us.
"
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
bump! What do I have to do, PM you guys, perfect chance for you to take some shots at the MSM Troll :devil:

What, are you scared :willy: :lol:
 

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RODEO said:
bump! What do I have to do, PM you guys, perfect chance for you to take some shots at the MSM Troll :devil:

What, are you scared :willy:
It's not that, it's just that we all feel so sorry for you :D
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Editguy said:
It's not that, it's just that we all feel so sorry for you :D
For what, for the fact that at $21K I could stomp on stock vettes? :lol:

Come on, someone tell me why it's not fair for me to compare the performance of a stock MSM against a stock nat aspirated Sol.
 

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Not that I give a rat's arse about whether performance comparisons are "fair" or not, but am I missing something here?
Mazdaspeed Miata base price = $25k
Solstice base price = $20k

Anyhoo, less than 200rwhp on a turbo with $2000+ in mods is less than impressive, and it's gonna take a lot more than that to keep up with Corvettes. You can get far more than that from an old chrysler turbo with a simple ~$10 valve from Grainger! There are dozens of such $1200 12-sec. cars out there. I time-trial my 240Z against an Omni GLH-S, and we both have outdone Vipers, Corvettes, 911 Turbos, etc in our cheap-ass old cars, "fair" comparison or no:)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
DanB said:
Not that I give a rat's arse about whether performance comparisons are "fair" or not, but am I missing something here?
Mazdaspeed Miata base price = $25k
Solstice base price = $20k

Anyhoo, less than 200rwhp on a turbo with $2000+ in mods is less than impressive, and it's gonna take a lot more than that to keep up with Corvettes. You can get far more than that from an old chrysler turbo with a simple ~$10 valve from Grainger! There are dozens of such $1200 12-sec. cars out there. I time-trial my 240Z against an Omni GLH-S, and we both have outdone Vipers, Corvettes, 911 Turbos, etc in our cheap-ass old cars, "fair" comparison or no:)
Sorry, but too much wrong with these statements to respond to, do some research on the MSM first please.

as for power, i'm into power that matches handling, not straight line numbers.
 

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RODEO said:
as for power, i'm into power that matches handling, not straight line numbers.
But the darkside is whispering in your ear, isn't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
LBJay said:
But the darkside is whispering in your ear, isn't it?
Don't follow, are you refering to the Evil Twins?
 

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The darkside.....turbos, superchargers, increased boost, intercoolers, dyno time, more hp....must have more HP. Mwahahahahaha....

You get to the point where the local salvage yard has a stack of engines, trannies and rear ends ready and just waiting for your number to show up on caller ID. ;)

Spend a few days here and you'll see why it's called....the darkside.

Crack ain't got nothing on HP. :devil:
 

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RODEO said:
Sorry, but too much wrong with these statements to respond to,
Good answer! So why'd you bother to respond?!

do some research on the MSM first please.
Not too terribly interested (though I do love Miatae!). Sure you can get MazdaSpeed Miatas for cheap now, it's a year-old car. Again, I'm not really concerned with whether performance comparisons are "fair" or not, just pointing out that some might insist on comparing cars w/ similar MSRP's.

as for power, i'm into power that matches handling, not straight line numbers.
I'm not into straight-line performance either, I've only been to the drags once. You think I was referring to straight-line time trials? My NA 240Z wouldn't stand a chance against the cars mentioned above. Road course time trials:) Power that matches handling? More power is better on road courses, too (setup will have to accomodate large power increases of course)

I clickied on yer link to Vishnu mods, didn't find anything too impressive. I still say less than 200rwhp after $2000+ worth of mods on a turbo Miata doesn't seem very impressive to me, surely there are home-grown mods that could yield as much or more for a lot less dough.
 

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LBJay said:
Crack ain't got nothing on HP. :devil:

:lol:

Sweet :thumbs:
 

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RODEO said:
:thumbs:

I thought some of you that have tracked the MSM in the past would enjoy those links :)
Such a deal should only be available for the Solstice, see what people would do then.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
DanB said:
Good answer! So why'd you bother to respond?!


Not too terribly interested (though I do love Miatae!). Sure you can get MazdaSpeed Miatas for cheap now, it's a year-old car. Again, I'm not really concerned with whether performance comparisons are "fair" or not, just pointing out that some might insist on comparing cars w/ similar MSRP's.



I'm not into straight-line performance either, I've only been to the drags once. You think I was referring to straight-line time trials? My NA 240Z wouldn't stand a chance against the cars mentioned above. Road course time trials:) Power that matches handling? More power is better on road courses, too (setup will have to accomodate large power increases of course)

I clickied on yer link to Vishnu mods, didn't find anything too impressive. I still say less than 200rwhp after $2000+ worth of mods on a turbo Miata doesn't seem very impressive to me, surely there are home-grown mods that could yield as much or more for a lot less dough.
OK Dan, if you promise not to get confrontational, I'll talk.

the msrp sol is 20K with little options. the MSM was loaded at 26 to 27K. The loaded sol is 23-25. same class, yes, but not when you say a sol is 20K. That's what I meant on research. Nobody really calls a sol 20K, and the MSM never came as a base model, it only had a loaded package.

As for $ for power, I am no pro if that is good cost, the pros on my other board seem real happy.

The point of this thread was put some info on the MSM, and ask why I can't compare it to a Sol.

Hopefully I answered nicely. I hope we are in a good way, cause I've had a long day :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
LBJay said:
The darkside.....turbos, superchargers, increased boost, intercoolers, dyno time, more hp....must have more HP. Mwahahahahaha....

You get to the point where the local salvage yard has a stack of engines, trannies and rear ends ready and just waiting for your number to show up on caller ID. ;)

Spend a few days here and you'll see why it's called....the darkside.

Crack ain't got nothing on HP. :devil:
Too funny. I'm mostly a stock guy, but I am getting this odd itch, shoudl I see a doctor, or a tuning shop :lol:
 
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