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Discussion Starter #61
Personal opinion here. I think NASSAM 2018 has to be the most successful one to date. I see John taking it again in 2019, but after that unless some major changes are made, I do not see it continuing. I hate to say it, but have seen clubs not moving forward. Changing with the times is needed.

I just returned from the FJ Cruiser National. Growing by leaps and bounds, rejecting large sponsors, not enough room, 450 trucks this year, with over 700 on the waiting list. Working with the wounded Warrior Program.

I think the individual charities are great, but are a problem for getting big time sponsors to commit. This group needs to find a major charity and tie its wagon to it. That will open doors never even thought of.

This group has done tremendous work over the years, but basically it just goes by the wayside as it moves to another area, to jump thru hoops. Become partners with a city/town/area and have the backing year around from that city. Starting over every single year, takes time and a lot of work.

I hope I am wrong, but we are well past the National and still do not have a taker for 2019 other than John and Glen. I have no problem if that became the permanent site. But the bar hopping around the country is not going to fly much longer I am afraid. You can look at the 2018 National, Rob was the only one interested in doing it.
First, it will continue as long as I am a member of the group. I obviously can't say how big it will be, but it will continue.

Why are individual charities a problem? The problems for "big sponsors" are relevance and participation. Until we exceed 250-300 cars we aren't going to see big sponsors and, frankly, I don't care. We had a good meet at reasonable cost without major sponsorship and, with what we learned, will be able to do more with less next time.

Has a charity been announced for '18? I've been a little busy and haven't checked the website lately.

I think that the "bar hopping" is a great thing as long as someone wants to do it in a new location. I can see a continuation of it with a regular fall-back location (or two) for years that there isn't a new location.
 

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JohnWR, you are actually confirming exactly what I am saying. You feel your next event will be better, easier for you to promote, you know the ropes. Lexington knows who you are and most likely will be more willing to work with you.

As to major charities, they bring larger sponsors with them. You don't have do the work to get them there.

I have been talking to everyone I know that has a Kappa about Colorado, I get maybe, but that is far away. I think you mentioned that California has over 5000 Kappas registered (not sure). Location of what I feel is a close event seems to be to far.

I can site two other similar Nationals that I was involved with.

NMA, National Minicycle Association (originally then became National Motosports Association)

They had their National at different places in the Midwest, Springfield, Missouri, Houston, Texas, Broken Bow, Oklahoma, Oklahoma City. They then moved it to a permanent location in Ponca City Oklahoma. The event grew quite rapidly, going from a 200 entry level to over 2000 in the final years.

AMA Amateur Motocross National Champion Ships. They learned from the NMA and located their National at Loretta Lynn's Dude Ranch in Hurricane Mills, Tennessee.

I believe both ran for close to 20 years. AMA's lease ended with Loretta Lynn, and NMA main partner passed away

CVA (Crown Victoria Convention). It still does the traveling city deal, has since its inception I think, but normally, in a 500 mile circle of Ohio. Same people run the event year after year. It is not involved with a charity, or at least wasn't while I was active in the Club.

The three that I have mentioned are for profit organizations

FJ Cruiser Summit is non profit. But their directors/employees are paid.

I think hopping all over makes it tougher for the sponsors. One location, they know the cost, they can budget for it, how long it takes to get there, expected number of people that should be there to buy their product.

It seems you have made the commitment John, and I think that is fantastic. I suggest you get 5 like minded people and run with the ball. We are not being bombarded by other groups that want to do it, or could do it. I would like to see you and Sooner take it on. You both did great jobs, and I am sure Rob will have a great event.

Diehards is what you need. It is a lot of work, I know. But starting over every year is so much harder.

Good Luck.
 

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Two interesting opinions. Of course off-road is a big deal in most of the US and there were twice as many FJs produced as Kappas, with FJ production starting as Kappa production was winding down, FJs were produced well after the Kappas stopped and Toyota continues to support the FJs (and the FJ Summit) as well as off road with other models, where GM has not only discontinued the Kappa but the Pontiac/Saturn brands and has little to no use for the Kappa. Comparing the two is a little difficult BUT the idea of future "National" events and how to move forward is a worthwhile conversation. The lack of a National Kappa organization forces Kappa owners to rely on individuals to step up if events are to continue. I'm guessing that the FJ group is organized differently with their Directors. Certainly more attendance would open the opportunity for more supporting vendors but does anyone think that we will ever be able to attract more participants (450 with 700 standing in line) no matter what we do? Attaching the Nationals to one location or one charity could be an option BUT there are many people who have expressed their desire to visit different locations and attend for that reason. It appears to me that Kappas will go the way of other orphan makes/models with local and regional events, and an effort to have a National event. The involved owners will push this along and the size and frequency of events will depend entirely on the interest of the owners. Is there truly any other way?
 

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Actually they started about the same time, but did survive until the 2014 model. Mine was made in July of 2006.

I agree totally different numbers. But the paths have been different. And yes Toyota did/does support the event.

Ouray is the main driver in people attending the event. People come to the event because of its location. But will admit there are people that would like to see it move, not because of the location, but so more people could attend. It does make the area very busy.

I have stated calling them regionals and allowing for a number to be done a year, would bring more people into the fold.

California, could most likely draw a hundred to one hundred fifty cars. One in Ohio, most likely 200-250 and another 250 in the southeast and maybe a 150 in the central area. That would give exposure to lets say 700 people and cars. You do that for a few years, then have a National because you rebuilt the base.

There are new buyers showing up all the time. The cars are becoming very affordable. Now is a good time to get some of them to a well run event. We have people that can run that type of event I am sure.

Just throwing out ideas.
 

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Responding generally to some of the comments above -

We had an organizing body and it fell apart. Several years ago (2010ish), we tried to restart that organization with representatives from across the country. However, we discovered that the only benefit it seemed to provide going forward was the selection of a NASSAM site. We've proven over and over that can be done without a formal organization, so the concept was tabled again.

The issue of whether to use the same location over and over, has been discussed in several threads here and on the Sky side (usually in conjunction with selecting a NASSAM location for a particular year). The general conclusion has seemed to be that folks preferred to go east of the Mississippi one year and west the next - which allows better access for folks on the coasts to at least make every other NASSAM. There are diehards that will go wherever it is, but a lot of people are more limited on how far they can or will travel. Bottom line is that there is no ideal location for everyone. [I think there is still one person who has registered for all twelve NASSAMs, but there is no longer anyone who has been to them all. Personally, I've been to six of the last eight - I missed two because of work].

Personally, I am opposed to repeating locations for the time being. There are too many great places left to visit which is why I have been suggesting north Georgia, Ontario, and the California coast for several years. This is not a critical statement about Colorado - I am looking forward to the event and have offered whatever help I can give. And I am grateful that David, Rob, Jim and the others have picked up the torch and run with it. I am also grateful that John did the same with Kentucky. But I want to go new places. All three of the locations I mentioned have strong clubs - particularly Ontario and the west coast. Frankly, given how well organized those two clubs are, I am really surprised that one or the other hasn't already done a NASSAM.

As for the comment about the hotel being the big draw for 2017, I am not sure if that is the case. It does look like they have picked a great spot and I am not discounting it at all. But it seems to me that most people go to NASSAM for the two main reasons - (1) to spend time with their friends and meet other owners and (2) to drive the roads. However, there are lots of additional reasons that people go - visit new places and attractions, car shows, chances to meet vendors and get their cars worked on, etc.
 

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We have 7 that have been to all eleven FJ Summits. Not a great number. Glad to be one of them, but that and 9.00 will get you a cup of coffee.

I certainly wish you guys luck on these. And I will try to make as many as I can, but do not see driving for 4 days to get to an event. Mine will all be west of the Missouri River is my guess. Feel the Colorado one will offer the best weather we are going to see during the summer solstice. Although just got back a week ago from the Summit and it rained every single day, and some days quite a bit. So who knows.
 

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There is preliminary discussion on Facebook about Solstice Sky Owners of Ontario (SSOOO) hosting 2019. I have provided the link below, but I think you have to be a member of the group to be able to see it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/SSOOO/permalink/10155517286328536/?comment_id=10155518811983536&notif_t=group_comment_reply&notif_id=1502030489008849

I am not a member, can see the group, can see who is a member, can't see any of the discussions, no need to ask me to join.

Interesting, they need to look very seriously and realistically at their expected turnout. I am of the opinion that many, many people will not get a passport just to allow them to attend a Canadian event, but I could be quite wrong too.

:dunno:

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2,282 miles one way. A week of driving and 2,282 home. Just does not even sound fun. lol. Will not be making that one for sure.
 

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Sooner, are you talking about the central/northern California group. We don't see much from them down here. As for the San Diego group, active for dinners and short drives, but not terribly organized on runs. I really do not think that group could put on a National level event, without a tremendous amount of help from past organizers. The two groups are close to 600 miles apart so it would be hard to work together on this.

Not to mention that Highway 1 north of LA to San Francisco is basically closed, and no opening date is planned for it. So coast events would need to be between San Diego and LA, maybe up to Oxnard. Or north of San Fran. I know as it screwed up our plans for vacation in September. The sad part is they really do not know if they can fix it the last I heard.

We attended the Classic Opel National in Monterey a couple of years ago. Beautiful area and some roads to drive, but dealing with SFran traffic was not fun. Freeways were terrible.
 

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Is there a poll option on this site .. as a member of the SSOOO group we would like to see what interest there is in an Ontario gathering. Distance works both ways .. we cant make it to California either ;-) and even KY was a stretch. No point going to far into this if there really is no interest. A few opinions sure, everyone has one..
 

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I see some polls in some of the other forum categories but I looked and could not figure out how to create one.
 

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In order to post a new poll, start a new thread, in your starter message scroll all the way to the bottom and there will be a question regarding polls and the number of options, click yes, fill in a number for the options, and submit the thread. I suspect it will prompt you somewhere along the line or allow you to edit the poll questions.

Helpful? try it in the test forum first.

:dunno:

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Discussion Starter #76
Repeat events are without question easier to manage and to organize, and are less likely to experience problems, so they will be "better". They are also mainly duplicates of themselves, and while this is not necessarily a bad thing (there are very popular events that have been going on for the life of our cars) it is not what the general population appears to be looking for right now for NASSAM. That said, the people will only get the unique event that they want if someone is willing to give one to them.

As long as there are groups willing to do NASSAMs in new places, we will (and should) have a traveling circus and people will get to go to those new places every year. When there isn't a group willing to host an event in a new place all of the wishing and opposition in the world isn't going to create one. When that happens the choices will be a repeat location or no NASSAM.

To consider multiple locations in the same year (ie: Regionals) you have to work with the fact that vendors are another key item in the equation for the NASSAM. We have basically two (DDM and Norm) who attend regularly, and I doubt that they have the resources to attend multiple Kappa events every year, although that is clearly a question to be put to them directly. There has been talk of attracting other "large" vendors, but who would they be?
 

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You have one posting on the board currently, Get your wheels, I feel would attend a west coast regional if the numbers were right. We had Discount Tires that attended the FJ National for years. I think they were involved with the Kappas for while to. It does not have to be Kappa Specific.

Possibly a poll to find out what the group wants. Most of the newbees (myself included) seem to want something closer to home, less travel. A lot of us don't want to put 5-6K on a car 10 years old. The ones that seem to be saying only a traveling National works, are the ones that have been doing that since its inception.

I like going new places just like everyone else, but spending three weeks in a Kappa in honesty is a little much for my tired old butt.

Regionals would take some organization so they were not run on the same weekend, so there could be overlap for say a person in Kentucky with a regional in Georgia and One in Ohio. The idea is to generate interest from the new owners, not necessarily satisfy the old members.

If there was one in San Diego and Salt Lake City, I could see myself going to both if they were a month apart.

The group overall is older, the cars are older, parts are getting less available.

John, there was a request from the Ontario group about a poll to see who might come. I think that would be a good start to see who and where they would come from I don't want to see good, hard working people bust their butts and not enough show up to make it profitable or worst case scenario they have to take money out of their pockets to pay the bills.

Like I said, I am in for any west of the Missouri River, and there certainly could be exception farther east. But past that makes it more work than fun. And that is what this is supposed to be about I think.
 

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Realistically all past Nationals have been regional. But for a small number of people, attendees live in a two day radius. Nothing stops anyone from holding their own event when it suits them. In fact having staggered regionals east and west would potentially get more people the opportunity to participate. If they were separated in time it would actually be an advantage
 

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Discussion Starter #79 (Edited)
Regional meets and the NASSAM are not mutually exclusive, and there have been "regionals" operating in parallel with the NASSAM since the beginning. There were actually two Southeast Regionals (in 2008 and 2009) before interest lagged enough that planning one turned into a waste of effort. T2TR in eastern Ohio and TOTD in North Carolina could have qualified based on attendance and consistency, all they really lacked were vendors and a banquet.

I have come back to this point multiple times during these discussions: We can't decide how the NASSAM is going to evolve. What we can do is schedule, plan, and host a meet, see how it works out, and either do it again or not the next year. If it works out again the next year, repeat the process the following year. Eventually we will either establish a tradition (or maybe a number of traditions) or get tired of the hassle and move on to something else. Maybe it will be a Regional/National format, and maybe the National will fall out of favor, but only time will tell. Of course, given the difficulty we have had getting more than one group at a time to be interested in hosting the NASSAM, having multiple groups interested in hosting Regionals may be a pipe dream. Getting them to cooperate on timing is an even longer shot, as different areas have specific times that you can and cannot effectively schedule something like this, people have specific times that they can and cannot devote the time and energy to running a meet, and getting them to dovetail may well be impossible.

We have always tried to keep larger meets away from the mid-June to mid-July timeframe to avoid detracting from the NASSAM, and I do think that if someone announces a plan for an NASSAM it would be polite to avoid scheduling something that conflicts with it, but that is really just my opinion and carries no weight.

The bottom line is that if you want a meet (Local, Regional, or National) in a particular place, your best bet is to plan it yourself.

I assume that by "profitable" you mean the ability to make a larger donation to the designated charity. No NASSAM to date has been done for-profit, and I hope that there is not a plan to change that, although I still haven't seen any information about the designated charity for 2018. I certainly understand the desire to keep from putting a significant amount of personal money into an event, but it isn't that hard to avoid it. I budgeted 2017 to break even at 150 people, or roughly 100 cars, at which point any contributions, raffle proceeds, silent auction proceeds, etc would have been the only charitable contribution. Going above that attendance and finding ways to economize on some of our planned expenses allowed us to increase the contribution. The key in my mind is to focus on the base essentials, then add extras that will pay for themselves at any attendance level.

Just for the record, hosting a meet is more work than fun, but it ends up being very satisfying when it comes together.

I think it is a wonderful idea for the Ontario group to take a poll to gauge interest, and I can't think of a thing that would stop them.
 

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I am not a member, can see the group, can see who is a member, can't see any of the discussions, no need to ask me to join.

Interesting, they need to look very seriously and realistically at their expected turnout. I am of the opinion that many, many people will not get a passport just to allow them to attend a Canadian event, but I could be quite wrong too.

:dunno:

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For the cost of hotels, gas etc to attend a National meet, surely a passport is not a big expense?

Actually, how much is a US passport?
 
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