[RedDevil]

I need help bad! Today I was driving home and after accelerating hard to pass some one and coming to a complete stop, my car started to idle way down and almost die and then suddenly surge way up in the RPMs. It keeps doing this like the throttle body is stuck open or something. No check engine lights have come on. I tried to reset the car's ECU by disconnecting the battery but it did not help. It wont stop surging up and down. It's like it's possessed! I was able to drive it home, but the brakes on the 08' turbo have the boost control and are being affected by the cars high revving and the turbo. I have to hold the brake pedal down to keep the car from driving away from me. Does anyone know what the hell this is?!!! I need help fast! I can't figure out what would cause this to happen?

Earlier today I had the oil changes and I dove it to work with no problems. I noticed they did not reset the oil life. I tried putting the car into on position and then without turning the car on, only in accessory mode pumped the gas pedal 3 times. This usually resets the oil life. But did nothing. I then found out how to reset it through he DIC and it reset just fine. I wonder if pumping the gas pedal in acc. mode messed up the the TB sensor? Anyone know for sure?:cuss:

 

[KappaKadet]

So, you took it somewhere for an oil change and not long afterward the car started acting squirrely?
Can't blame it on your gas pedal thing. :nono:

Might look for a loose hose or electrical connection.
Also would check to see that they didn't way over fill the oil.

 

[DaveOC]

So, you took it somewhere for an oil change and not long afterward the car started acting squirrely?
Can't blame it on your gas pedal thing. :nono:

Might look for a loose hose or electrical connection.
Also would check to see that they didn't way over fill the oil.

:agree: :agree:

The oil change places always check your air filter . . . check for a messed up MAF and/or a busted PCV hose/nipple.

 

[RedDevil]

So I let it sit for a little while, then removed the fuses that go to the ECM and checked them. They were fine. So I put them back in. I started up the car and it seemed to drive normal. But as soon as I laid on the gas to give it some boost it started up again, but this time I could here a hissing noise. Definitely sounded like a boost leak to me. Although I could not find where it was coming from. Again, on the 08 GXP, the brakes are also boost controled, so they are also effected. It takes longer for me to stop because there is no boost being created for the vacuum. Still no check engine lights. I found some loose bolts on the passenger side of the turbo hose mounting bracket that support the inter-cooler pipe. I tightened everything back up and still same problem. I'm thinking the hose/braided tube line that goes to the nipple on the CAI may be compromised. It has some play in it and I can rotate it around. Seems like it should have some movement in it because the engine has to torque a little bit. But I'm not positive. Would a boost leak cause these symptoms and still not throw a code? I can definitely hear a leak under boost, and I'm only getting boost at very high RPMs. It very low boost at that, like 6-7 only at 3-4K RPMs. I'm going to the dealership in the morning, hopefully they can find what's wrong with it. I just hope I can stop in time and don't hit anyone on the way.

 

[RedDevil]

So this morning I decided to hook up my code reader and see if there were any codes no yet trigered. Sure enough I found two. P0101 & P0507. Fisrt is the boost leak I heard and second one says is because of "high engine idle/reving" which is what it has been doing every time I drive it. I looked again for a leak but could not find anyhting. So I drove it to the dealership without hitting any one. I say this because the car has no brakes basically. Becaus ethe 08 GXP has vacum pump assist provided by the boost from the turbo, and because of the boost leak I have little to no brakes. STUPID [email protected]$ING desing. GM knows this and in 09 went back to the "NORMAL" brake set up they used in 07. Many people have installed the 07 brake set up with out the vacum pump for this very reason. Anyway, while driving the car to the dealerhsip the codes I mentioned finally came on with the check engine light. Since I knew what they were I just kept driving it until I made it to the dealership and let them know about the codes. Now I'm waiting to here how much it will cost to fix it and hope it's something simple like a loose hose. Car only has 29K on it and is an early 08 model production. The later made 08's did away with the vacum pump brakes, gee I wonder why?

Anyone know if the P0101 is an easy fix or not? Turbo seemed to be funbctioning normal with blow off working, just not much boost with the leak I could still hear.

 

[MidniteBlues]

If I may ask, did the dealer do the oil change?? If not you gotta be careful going to a 3rd party outfit that are not familiar with our kappas. Sometimes those dudes "mess' around when they shouldn't. I always now do my own oil change, mainly because I want it done right. When someone else does it it's my ex-Saturn dealer since they very familiar with our kappas.. IMO, those guys that did the work for you probably broke something, either fiddling with something they shouldn't of or inadvertently. One more thing, when I let someone work on my Sky, I tell exactly what I want done, and DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING ELSE!!..

 

[RedDevil]

UPDATE! Dealership called me and told me that the vacum pump hose for the brakes came off and caused air to get trapped in the line and made the tubo get stuck wide open cuasing the high revs and codes. They reconnected it and cleared all the codes, said car runs fine now. I wonder how it came off to begin with? Only bad thing about the 08' GXP is this stupid boost/break vacum set up that runs off of the turbo. The 07's never had it and neither did the 09s. I need to look into the reto-fit kit. At least there was no charge for it, not even the engine diagnostic. I went to SEWELL in Dallas, TX. They are good people and I recomend them to everyone. I'm so friggin happy now! Has this ever happened to anyone before?

 

[rob the elder]

Glad you got the problem fixed. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Just to clarify,
The early production 08 had the "improved" design that eliminated the electric vacuum pump. After the first few months of production, they went back to the electric vacuum pump design.

We have an early 08 Sky without the vacuum pump and have occasionally experienced the low vacuum braking condition but never had a brake failure.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f43/brake-issues-41801/

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f59/2008-solstice-gxps-optimized-hydraulic-boost-ohb-feature-information-34000/#post522248

Subject: Information on Optimized Hydraulic Boost Characteristics 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP



The Optimized Hydraulic Boost (OHB) is a standard feature, included with all 2008 vehicles equipped with the 2.0L (RPO LNF) engine) and Electronic Stability Control (ESC) or known as StabiliTrak. OHB assists / supplements brake operation under low engine / low brake booster vacuum conditions using the ABS system.


Important: Increased brake pedal effort due to low brake booster vacuum conditions may exist during;

• The initial cold engine start up and the first few brake applies.

• When the vehicle has been parked for extended periods and/or at higher altitudes and restarted.

• Any time the vehicle is started up after a brake booster has been completely bled down (no stored vacuum).


The OHB functions are controlled by the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) Module. The ESC module determines when to activate the OHB.

The following OHB characteristics are considered to be normal:

• Increased brake pedal effort under low brake booster vacuum.

• Change in brake pedal effort when OHB is active.

• Ratchet sound coming from the brake system during OHB activation.

• Frequent brake stops may result in OHB activation.

• High altitude driving may result in OHB activation.

• Brake pedal movement or pulsation when the OHB is active.

Some customers may bring their vehicle back to the dealership commenting on any or all of the above characteristics . The customer may experience brake pedal movement or pulsation accompanied by a change in brake pedal effort when the OHB is active.

Important: Do not attempt to repair or replace any parts for what is considered normal operation of the OHB.

If a condition should exist in which you might not be receiving the intended brake boost, the SVC BRAKE SYSTEM message may be displayed on the DIC.



Hydraulic Brake Boost System

If your vehicle is equipped with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and the optional 2.0L turbocharged engine, it also has a hydraulic brake boost feature which supplements the power brake system to maintain consistent brake performance under conditions of low brake booster vacuum. Low brake booster vacuum conditions can include initial start up after the vehicle has been parked for several hours, very frequent brake stops, or high altitude driving. When hydraulic brake boost is active, you might feel minor brake pulsation or movement in the pedal but this is normal.

The Hydraulic Brake Boost system activates (only) during a brake apply when the brake module detects low vacuum from the vacuum sensor mounted in the booster. The boost function in this case will be provided by the ESC system to provide metered brake pressure to the wheels. When the system activates to build pressure, the ECU will run the pump motor, opens the Electronic Shuttle Valve (ESV), and closes the Isolation Valves (NO TCS Valves) at the same time. The ECU runs the pump in pulsed cycles and builds pressure in the wheels that exceeds the TMC (with low vacuum in the booster). As the brake fluid is drained from the TMC, the brakes pedal will move accordingly (pulsing feel in pedal). Pump speed and duration are controlled by computed volume models in the ECU (information includes low vacuum sensed, TMC pressure, and pedal travel through the BAS sensor). If the pressure is reduced or vacuum restored while a Low Hydraulic Boost is required the wheel pressure can thus be continuously adjusted to the TMC pressure by selectively lowering the current on the Isolation Valve (NO TCS Valve).

 

[chickenwire]

Who did the oil change?

 

[Robssol]

Who did the oil change?

So we know were NOT to go.:willy:
Another reason to do your own oil changes!:thumbs:

 

[RedDevil]

It was Kwik Kar Lube. They even asked me if I wanted Penzoil after I told them MOBIL1 FULL SYNTHETIC!!! They must have knocked it lose when they topped of all the fluids, i.e. the brake res. They even recomended the power steering fluid be flushed at 29K but I told them no. I wasn't sure but wanted to look at the manual first before they did any more "extra" work. I'm sure it was an accident, but I'm actually more mad that they did not reset the oil life more than anything. By the way, not that it matters, but they used a Penzoil Oil Filter! I wanted that to be Mobil 1 too. Go figure. So now I have Mobil 1 with a stupid Penz filter. Should not matter but I like to use parts that have always been used on my car.

 

[RedDevil]

Glad you got the problem fixed. :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Just to clarify,
The early production 08 had the "improved" design that eliminated the electric vacuum pump. After the first few months of production, they went back to the electric vacuum pump design.

We have an early 08 Sky without the vacuum pump and have occasionally experienced the low vacuum braking condition but never had a brake failure.

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f43/brake-issues-41801/

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f59/2008-solstice-gxps-optimized-hydraulic-boost-ohb-feature-information-34000/#post522248

Subject: Information on Optimized Hydraulic Boost Characteristics 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP



The Optimized Hydraulic Boost (OHB) is a standard feature, included with all 2008 vehicles equipped with the 2.0L (RPO LNF) engine) and Electronic Stability Control (ESC) or known as StabiliTrak. OHB assists / supplements brake operation under low engine / low brake booster vacuum conditions using the ABS system.


Important: Increased brake pedal effort due to low brake booster vacuum conditions may exist during;

• The initial cold engine start up and the first few brake applies.

• When the vehicle has been parked for extended periods and/or at higher altitudes and restarted.

• Any time the vehicle is started up after a brake booster has been completely bled down (no stored vacuum).


The OHB functions are controlled by the Electronic Stability Control (ESC) Module. The ESC module determines when to activate the OHB.

The following OHB characteristics are considered to be normal:

• Increased brake pedal effort under low brake booster vacuum.

• Change in brake pedal effort when OHB is active.

• Ratchet sound coming from the brake system during OHB activation.

• Frequent brake stops may result in OHB activation.

• High altitude driving may result in OHB activation.

• Brake pedal movement or pulsation when the OHB is active.

Some customers may bring their vehicle back to the dealership commenting on any or all of the above characteristics . The customer may experience brake pedal movement or pulsation accompanied by a change in brake pedal effort when the OHB is active.

Important: Do not attempt to repair or replace any parts for what is considered normal operation of the OHB.

If a condition should exist in which you might not be receiving the intended brake boost, the SVC BRAKE SYSTEM message may be displayed on the DIC.



Hydraulic Brake Boost System

If your vehicle is equipped with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) and the optional 2.0L turbocharged engine, it also has a hydraulic brake boost feature which supplements the power brake system to maintain consistent brake performance under conditions of low brake booster vacuum. Low brake booster vacuum conditions can include initial start up after the vehicle has been parked for several hours, very frequent brake stops, or high altitude driving. When hydraulic brake boost is active, you might feel minor brake pulsation or movement in the pedal but this is normal.

The Hydraulic Brake Boost system activates (only) during a brake apply when the brake module detects low vacuum from the vacuum sensor mounted in the booster. The boost function in this case will be provided by the ESC system to provide metered brake pressure to the wheels. When the system activates to build pressure, the ECU will run the pump motor, opens the Electronic Shuttle Valve (ESV), and closes the Isolation Valves (NO TCS Valves) at the same time. The ECU runs the pump in pulsed cycles and builds pressure in the wheels that exceeds the TMC (with low vacuum in the booster). As the brake fluid is drained from the TMC, the brakes pedal will move accordingly (pulsing feel in pedal). Pump speed and duration are controlled by computed volume models in the ECU (information includes low vacuum sensed, TMC pressure, and pedal travel through the BAS sensor). If the pressure is reduced or vacuum restored while a Low Hydraulic Boost is required the wheel pressure can thus be continuously adjusted to the TMC pressure by selectively lowering the current on the Isolation Valve (NO TCS Valve).

Yes, I've seen and read this before, what they call "normal" operation is dangerous not to mention just a bad design. I can't vallet my car anyplace because the car has to create boost pressure for the brakes to work after staring up for at least 2 minutes. Last time the guy but the car in revers and then realized the brakes were not working imediately and bumped the car parked behind him. Can't tell the vellet guy to wait every time I drop my car off at a fancy place to eat out at. It's okay because I don't like anyone else driving my car these days anyway. To much work has been put into it for someone else to mess it up. If this design was so good, then why did they switch back to the 07' set up. They knew it had problems and even caused accidents. The brakes don't always respond fast enough when put into sudden stop braking, i.e. some idiot cuts in front of you after you just sped up and now find that you need to stop emmediately. You will get the "pulsing" feeling they described and it basically pushes back on your foot not allowing you to stop IN TIME. This is what they consider "normal". But it's not SAFE.

 

[chickenwire]

I wouldn't take my lawn tractor to a quick lube place. Found my oil filler cap setting by my radiator on my truck the one and only time I used one. (I had been driving for over a week and have no idea how it stayed there.) My son used one once and they stripped his drain plug. So two different lube places scored a perfect two for two in screwing up the job - no way I'm giving any of them a chance to make it three for three.

 

[TomatoSoup]

I have an 08 with 'the' brake setup and NEVER even noticed a lack of braking power. Ever.

Make sure you got the TSB (ECM reprog) applied.

 

[MGar]

I have an 08 with 'the' brake setup and NEVER even noticed a lack of braking power. Ever.

Make sure you got the TSB (ECM reprog) applied.

If yours is a manual, I'm not surprised one bit.
Look up the complaints that caused the vacuum pump to be installed. 200+ complaints came from automatics.
2 came from manuals. 2.

This is likely because a manual you start, lightly apply gas, then slip clutch. That light application of gas then release likely creates enough vacuum to solve the problem.

 

[TomatoSoup]

If yours is a manual, I'm not surprised one bit.
Look up the complaints that caused the vacuum pump to be installed. 200+ complaints came from automatics.
2 came from manuals. 2.

This is likely because a manual you start, lightly apply gas, then slip clutch. That light application of gas then release likely creates enough vacuum to solve the problem.

Yes I have a manual. But that doesn't counter making sure the ECM re-program has been done. That 'fix' does just what you said and rev's the engine at startup (IIRC).

 

[MidniteBlues]

It was Kwik Kar Lube. They even asked me if I wanted Penzoil after I told them MOBIL1 FULL SYNTHETIC!!! They must have knocked it lose when they topped of all the fluids, i.e. the brake res. They even recomended the power steering fluid be flushed at 29K but I told them no. I wasn't sure but wanted to look at the manual first before they did any more "extra" work. I'm sure it was an accident, but I'm actually more mad that they did not reset the oil life more than anything. By the way, not that it matters, but they used a Penzoil Oil Filter! I wanted that to be Mobil 1 too. Go figure. So now I have Mobil 1 with a stupid Penz filter. Should not matter but I like to use parts that have always been used on my car.

Considering how they were gold digging on you, you HOPE they used M1 syn.. Considering they did not follow your instructions on the filter you wanted, wanna bet what you got? for all you know you got penzoil DINO oil...:yesnod:

 

[GS Stage 1]

Altitude makes a big difference, as well as driving conditions; as it applies to the 08 brake assist system that ran off the hydraulic ESC assist system, instead of using an auxiliary vacuum assist pump.

We have two 08 Skys:

I had both converted to the 07 & 09 vacuum assist pump system after I had a little incident with my car.

I was up in the mountains, probably about 7500-8500 feet above sea level. I was on a long stretch of wide open road and approached a tight pack of four cars that I wanted to pass. I knew I had plenty of time before the next curve, because I was very familiar with the road; so I went for it. So I pulled a full turbo WOT pass, easily passing all four at one time; then time to brake for the approaching curve. And I had no vacuum assist, they system had to default to the ESC augmentation. Which does help, but not much. Very hard brake pedal, I had to stand on it with a significant amount of pressure to get any braking; nothing like it should be.
(When you are commanding boost, there is NO VACUUM being generated for the Canister)

For me, this was not a huge deal; because it is the exact same thing one experiences with any old A-Body Big Block: When you are at WOT, and get out of it to brake, the engine does not create any new vacuum; so all you have to work with is whatever was left in the Canister, which of course goes away real quick. :lol: So I knew to just stand on that brake. Whatever you do, don't take your foot off because then you just lost what little bit of vacuum assist you had left.

However, this syndrome made me extremely uncomfortable for my wife's car. Because I know how she likes to drive as well. Therefore, I had them change up my car first, as a test mule; then when it worked on mine, I had them change hers.

Both cars have never had an issue since, with the brakes.

 

[WillBeck]

My cobalt did this exactl idel surging when the tire would kick the intake apart, and unmetered air would enter after the maf. I would look hard for any air leak post maf, pre tb.

 

[RedDevil]

If yours is a manual, I'm not surprised one bit.
Look up the complaints that caused the vacuum pump to be installed. 200+ complaints came from automatics.
2 came from manuals. 2.

This is likely because a manual you start, lightly apply gas, then slip clutch. That light application of gas then release likely creates enough vacuum to solve the problem.

Mine IS a manual, not auto. And depending when you bought an 08" matters with the build date of the car, not all 08's came with the brake set up I have, the later ones produced that year were made with the 07' brake set up because GM got to many complaints. It all has to do with the build date.