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I just keep finding "stuff"!! But mazda has a concept car that looks like something comparable to the miata, the main competitor of the solstice, I just pulled up the first page I could find again with pictures..........the "Ibuki", something tells me they'll change the name for production in the US.

http://www.autosite.com/Previews/concept-mazda-ibuki.asp

looks similar to a miata....
 

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Doesn't have the eye appeal IMO. Pretty plain even for a concept. But to each there own.
 

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Hawkeye said:
I just keep finding "stuff"!! But mazda has a concept car that looks like something comparable to the miata, the main competitor of the solstice, I just pulled up the first page I could find again with pictures..........the "Ibuki", something tells me they'll change the name for production in the US.

http://www.autosite.com/Previews/concept-mazda-ibuki.asp

looks similar to a miata....
Rumors are the next gen Miata won't look like this either. Claim it's a "styling exercise".
 

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I think that on previous threads we have all agreed on how badly the Ibuki concept sucks. Mazda got such bad reaction to it at the shows that they have come out and said that the new Miata will not look at all like it. I think it was a "Whoops, back to the drawing board" moment for them. I wouldn't hav e thought so, but designing a successful roadster concept seems to be very difficult, judging by the number of successful concepts vs. mistakes.
 

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mceb said:
Rumors are the next gen Miata won't look like this either. Claim it's a "styling exercise".
Yes, this isn't new (Oct 2003) but it is still interesting for a number of reasons: 180 hp & 2200 lbs. While the styling may not be indicative of the new Miata, those numbers may still be targets. The chasis allowed the engine to be shifted back over 15" from the current Miata and 1.5" lower. 14" shorter than the current Miata, though slightly wider with a longer wheelbase and 215/18 tires. I think it might be a great car to drive if 'styling' isn't all you're interested in. Incidentally, this concept car was also a hybrid with a relatively small 42v battery.
 

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Thanks robrecht, you sound like you know a lot about the Miata. Should be interesting to see what Mazda brings out in 2006.
 

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2200 lbs could be a target, but it will be awfully hard for them to hit that target and meet the ever increasing US safety regulations and keep the cost down. To get to that weight, they are going to have to use a lot of exotic metals, and its going to be difficult for them to do that and price it at or below the current Miata. Not saying it won't happen, Solstice will be $20K and have an aluminum suspension, but it will be tough.

Either way, I would think Mazda has to come out with a Miata that is at least an equal to the Solstice in performance. If they don't its going to be heavily criticized.
 

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Fformula88 said:
2200 lbs could be a target, but it will be awfully hard for them to hit that target and meet the ever increasing US safety regulations and keep the cost down. To get to that weight, they are going to have to use a lot of exotic metals, and its going to be difficult for them to do that and price it at or below the current Miata. Not saying it won't happen, Solstice will be $20K and have an aluminum suspension, but it will be tough.

Either way, I would think Mazda has to come out with a Miata that is at least an equal to the Solstice in performance. If they don't its going to be heavily criticized.
I agree with you on this one. One thing that Mazda has been always critisized for is been cabin space. Big and tall people don't fit. I would think that the next gen Miata will try to address this and that will make it hard to meet the 2200lb goal. Bigger cabin, bigger car, more weight. They might use more expensive materials and manufacturing processes to get the weight down all of which will raise the cost. I have a feeling that the next Miata will cost a bit more anyhow. I have a feeling they have their sights on Honda territory and feel their reputation will allow them to get more for their cars. They might let Pontiac (and Dodge??) have the entry level roadster market.

If they want to stay in the entry level market and be competitive price wise, the 2200lb goal will indeed be tough. Probably closer to 2600lbs.
 

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AeroDave said:
I agree with you on this one. One thing that Mazda has been always critisized for is been cabin space. Big and tall people don't fit. I would think that the next gen Miata will try to address this and that will make it hard to meet the 2200lb goal. Bigger cabin, bigger car, more weight. They might use more expensive materials and manufacturing processes to get the weight down all of which will raise the cost. I have a feeling that the next Miata will cost a bit more anyhow. I have a feeling they have their sights on Honda territory and feel their reputation will allow them to get more for their cars. They might let Pontiac (and Dodge??) have the entry level roadster market.

If they want to stay in the entry level market and be competitive price wise, the 2200lb goal will indeed be tough. Probably closer to 2600lbs.
the other side of the coin is that mazda has sold tons of miatas the size it is now. it would be very risky to chance pissing off those people (who fit, and like the drive) with a arger/heavier car. instead, go in the opposite direction. keep it the same size inside, but package everything better so that overall size/weight drops.
 

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Bizz said:
the other side of the coin is that mazda has sold tons of miatas the size it is now. it would be very risky to chance pissing off those people (who fit, and like the drive) with a arger/heavier car. instead, go in the opposite direction. keep it the same size inside, but package everything better so that overall size/weight drops.
Good point. It's a little amusing to hear the Miata described as the main, or even a new, competitor for the Solstice (don't worry, I know what the intended meaning is). In less than 15 years, there's been over 700,000 Miatas sold. Last I heard, the Solstice was looking at 20,000 units a year.

While the Miata has been refreshed a couple of times, changes haven't been drastic, and it will be interesting to see how a totally new design stacks up against the Solstice, S2k, etc. Personally, I think the RX-8 bodes well for a nice, light, well handling new Miata. I'm glad to see that the Miata should have some lower priced competition, finally. I know a lot of people hate the modest Miata, girlie car, etc, but it brought back the market for roadsters and, like it or not, the Z3, Z4, S2k, Boxster, and others stand on it's shoulders. I hope the Solstice is everything it's cracked up to be and succeeds. The legacy of the Miata's success and it's phenomenal reliability have set a benchmark that won't be easily surpassed.
 

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Bizz said:
instead, go in the opposite direction. keep it the same size inside, but package everything better so that overall size/weight drops.
I guess that would be going back to the first generation Miata. I recall it was smaller and lighter than the one now. The bigger one has been a big success, so I doubt they'll be down sizing. New models rarely seem to get smaller, almost always bigger. Until of course they get too big, and then they are down sized and call something like "Miata II".
 

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AeroDave said:
I guess that would be going back to the first generation Miata. I recall it was smaller and lighter than the one now. The bigger one has been a big success, so I doubt they'll be down sizing. New models rarely seem to get smaller, almost always bigger. Until of course they get too big, and then they are down sized and call something like "Miata II".
I've heard claims that the NA Miata actually has a more spacious interior than the NB Miata. I've also heard that one of the reasons for the MGB's success was a substantially larger interior due to its new frame. If the Ibuki shows what's possible as a true concept car, imagine what the NC Miata could become if intended as a practical commuter with a real trunk? In the end, true success for a 2-seater in the American market might have more to do with trunk size than hp-to-weight ratio, but the NC Miata may be on track to take both claims. Price to market--let's wait & see.
 

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AeroDave said:
I guess that would be going back to the first generation Miata. I recall it was smaller and lighter than the one now. The bigger one has been a big success, so I doubt they'll be down sizing. New models rarely seem to get smaller, almost always bigger. Until of course they get too big, and then they are down sized and call something like "Miata II".
i thought the second miata was just new sheetmetal, stuff like that, not a new chassis. shows you how much attention i payed the lil bastard.
 

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Bizz said:
i thought the second miata was just new sheetmetal, stuff like that, not a new chassis. shows you how much attention i payed the lil bastard.
I think you were right about the NB Miata not having a new chasis (though improvements over the years certainly were more than just sheet metal). The NC Miata, however, will have a new chasis based on the RX-8 but smaller.
 

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robrecht said:
I've heard claims that the NA Miata actually has a more spacious interior than the NB Miata. I've also heard that one of the reasons for the MGB's success was a substantially larger interior due to its new frame. If the Ibuki shows what's possible as a true concept car, imagine what the NC Miata could become if intended as a practical commuter with a real trunk? In the end, true success for a 2-seater in the American market might have more to do with trunk size than hp-to-weight ratio, but the NC Miata may be on track to take both claims. Price to market--let's wait & see.
But why engage in silly theoretical speculation, when there's already some covered post-mule, pre-production photos floating around?

http://www.autobild.de/aktuell/neuheiten/artikel.php?artikel_id=6953#

Looks a lot like an NA Miata in overall shape, but the disguise prevents definitive pronouncments. Solstice lovers may complain about 16" fender gap, but those who prefer acceleration and low unsprung weight will understand. Chrome windshield surround with lack of a vent window looks a little Solstice-like. Trunk will hopefully be no smaller than present. The article confirms greater interior roominess and only a modest price increase and goes on and on about room for a V6 under the hood (maybe that would justify dual exhaust). The RX-8 grill may only be a disguise element. More discussion can be found here:

Look for a 'concept' version, ie, big wheels and high-gloss paint job, in Geneva.
 

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I wouldn't expect anything less than a very good to great roadster from Mazda. They are not the biggest company around, but they have a nack for fun to drive cars. Something most auto companies can only dream of (including GM most of the time).

We are still very starved for confirmed, finalized info on the next Miata. A final prototype to look at without camo, specs, etc. The real question is, how will it stack up to the Solstice, and right now its all speculation since we cannot drive either. Were just going to have to wait.

Either way, these two are going to be major competitors! It will be fun! :smile
 

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robrecht said:
Looks a lot like an NA Miata in overall shape, but the disguise prevents definitive pronouncments. Solstice lovers may complain about 16" fender gap, but those who prefer acceleration and low unsprung weight will understand. Chrome windshield surround with lack of a vent window looks a little Solstice-like. Trunk will hopefully be no smaller than present. The article confirms greater interior roominess and only a modest price increase and goes on and on about room for a V6 under the hood (maybe that would justify dual exhaust). The RX-8 grill may only be a disguise element.
The spy photos are kind of fun to look at but they really only tell us a couple of things. 1) they are considering a chrome windshield frame. (they could easily change thier minds) 2) the over all size is about the same as it is now. Thankfully it didn't grow. 3) the gas cap is on the left side. Who knows what is under the covers? Could look like an RX8, could look like an Ibuki, and with enough foam camo under there it could even look like a Dodge Aries. As to the wheel size, I completely agree with you on the 16" wheels, they would be better for a car this size, but wheels are very much fashion, and in America bigger is better. So I wouldn't count on the Miata sticking with 16"s. They could easily change their minds and go with 18"s to satisfy the demand for gigantic bling-bling.

Anyhow I'm sure Mazda will create a very competent roadster. I'm not one of the many Miata haters, I think it's a great car. I look forward to seeing what they come up with, but mind is pretty much set at about 95% towards getting a Solstice. :cheers
 

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robrecht said:
I think you were right about the NB Miata not having a new chasis (though improvements over the years certainly were more than just sheet metal). The NC Miata, however, will have a new chasis based on the RX-8 but smaller.
i wasnt sure. i had read a long time ago that they had improved interio space a tad when they redid the exterior. btw, liked the changes, hated the way the originals looked.

so, with a new chassis some inches wider and the front wheels pushed a bit forward couple with the firewall pshed forward, they could concievably increase the interior room a significant amount without making the car that much larger.
 

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But lengthening the wheelbase WILL add weight, regardless of the overhangs.

There's just no way to increase track or wheelbase (in a production configuration, mind you) without adding weight. There's just a particular density for most vehicles. Posted this a while ago, but there is a very good correlation to the area covered by the wheels (track times wheelbase) and the curb mass.

So, the new NC will be heavier, or it will be smaller. But it will not be both.
 
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